The other day one of our referalls referred me to about 10 different people. Welll I wallked into one business and introduced myself. And the business owner told me,"oh your to late. We got broken into last night". Of course I am thinking, "no I am just in time". Because if i came before they got broken into she would have told me no thanks she doesnt need one. But now she is dying to get one because Brinks security sells there alarm systems and tells people that criminals will pick a business without an alarm. Or once they here the alarm go off they will not stay. Both were proven wrong this time and time and time again. She cant complain to Brinks because the alarm system actually "worked". They broke in, the alarm went off, and they called the police. The police showed up 45 minutes later and the burglars were gone. It did its job. What I tell people is exactly the opposite. I say," look you cant stop criminals. You cant deter criminals. Criminals that are determined will do what they do regardless of the fact. The only thing you can do is preper for it. Video surveillance will provide you with a complete video documentation of who was there and what they took. All an alarm company will tell you is that you where broken into. Heck you would know that".
I think the alarm/monitoring based companys that base their whole company on alarms and year and a half contracts for monitoring fees are going to be left in the dust if they dont change soon. Especially areas that are going to a non response. Any thoughts?

I think alarm systems are more useful for homes than retail anyway, i see it as a line of defence, at least when you are home. It will let you know someone is coming, its helped me plenty of times. I couldnt live where i live, without some yard beams and 3 loud sirens ... :wink:

Another thing, if it is monitored, or self monitored with a dialer, then you get an alert and can deal with the situation, if you have video, even better. There's definately a need for Alarm Systems, thing is I left doing just alarm systems for the same reason you posted, here in the Bahamas you're lucky if the cops turn up at all.

But then again, if the clients are buying cheap video systems, once again they will be lucky to catch the perps anyway.

i am talking about for business

The Visonic Powermax+ alarm we sell now has web cams that integrate to the alarm. You can place a camera and tie it to a zone, lets say the front door. Its designed to capture 10 burst images, 10 post images of an event and email them to you!

Its also treated just like a webcam, so you can log on anytime and view whats going on! Its no surveillance system but its kinda neat how it works!

But majority of the time, my customers that get alarms also end up buying surveillance. Just knowing who was in your house, where they were, and what they took is often enough reason for my customers to purchase surveillance.

where are they, the cameras ?? :-)

Alarm systems are a very important part of security. What good is reviewing video footage of a break in unless the burglars have their social security number tattooed across their forehead? And you can't monitor your DVR 24/7.

Motion sensing functionality from a CCTV system is not as reliable as contacts, PIR's, shock sensors, and beams.

With alarm systems, yes, some areas have slow to non-existant police response. But some areas have very good police response.

For instance with my building, the central station can always reach me on my cell phone, and tell me which zones were tripped. If i'm near a computer I can log in to my DVR and see what's going on. If I verifed a break in and called the local precinct, they would respond even faster.

ill tell you what you do if they dont have their ssn tattoed on their forehead. What you do is when you design your system be sure to have some cameras designated for face shots. Kind of like when you want License Plate Recognition you have it only designated for that. And not for anything else. Same concept. Get an excellent face shot. Then send it to the news. We have a great relationship with the biggest news channel around here and we do that all the time. I have yet to send them one that has directly resulted in people calling and will identify them. That gets the warrants and they are usually arrested within atleast 2 weeks. Works every time. Plus is great for publicity. We dont ever have to spend money on advertising because the news likes us and mentions our name every time. Best advertising I could ask for.

yeah they wont do that here ... then again we only have 1 station and its prehistoric ..

statistics are showing around here that the majority of the residential burglaries are comitted by somebody that you know, somebody that knows you, or somebody in the neighborhood. With that being said, you will have a good chance at reviewing video and recognizing someone!

definately not around here ... but alot of them are repeat offenders so alot of the time the cops can recognise them ... thats when the cops actually take the time to investigate it ..

If I was a defense attorney I'd take the same camera and DVR and record a lineup with 6 individuals at the same distance, and see if the jury could pickout the defendant, beyond a reasonable doubt. It takes more than video footage to get a conviction.

finger prints .. :lol:

well of course it takes more than video evidence. No prosicuting attorney is going to go into court and say here is the video I rest my case. Even if the video was the best video you could ever imagine. You have to bring everything to the table. But what I am saying in this whole realm of this topic is that with the alarm industry around here. That the infectiveness of them helps our industry alot. Because most of the time the person is never caught. Because what is an alarm going to tell you besides the fact that you had been broken into? If the suspect is gone. You have no video. Pretty much they were able to tell you that you were broken into. You would have figured that out. When we had to go through the NBFAA certification the guy that heads the Arkansas BFAA said and I quote, "the national average is not measured in minutes its measured in hours. We are allowed to call the police once an hour. And we will call 3 times to ensure they have responded".
Thats real assuring. You might say that that is the polices fault for the response time. Well if the alarm industry did not have a 98% false alarm rating they would respond faster. What other industry can you think of that you can fail 98% of the time and still be in business?
For businesses I think an video is way more critical than an alarm. Tie them into together and you get a bonus. But most businesses could care less. That type of failure rating multiplied times the inneffectivness of the system compared to the way they tell you it will be makes the alarms look like a selling point for surveillance systems.

If the installer was as knowledgable and professional as they should be then exact same camera with the exact same dvr focused and set exactly the same should get that persons identity without any doubt every time. Thats what may be the problem. Some people may not think of them as professionals and do substanderd work. I will walk away from a job before i will put in a cheap system that is not going to be used to fulfill all their needs. every system we put is going to be custom designed and set up to get a shot everytime. So if the defense attorney did that on one we did he would be sentencing his own client

Mace IS cheap stuff :lol:

Alarms do work though to scare the criminal away most of the time, they dont want to be seen or heard so when the siren goes off ... I have 3 loud sirens and 2 indoor ones in my small apt... :wink:

Mace cameras look cheap, but they seem to produce a pretty good picture.

Everything is going to look bad compared to EXTREME products. :roll:

or compared to GE, Sanyo, etc. ...

back to alarms ... Brinks TV Commericals crack me up, its like the lady can answer the phone from Brinks but cant dial 911 herself.

Mace is not cheap in the sense of just putting together a camera and doesnt care if it works. Mace is extremely good at producing cameras that are not as expensive as extreme. I have not seen much GE products so I cant compare it. But I would not agree that they dont look at as good if not better than SANYO. If I try out a new camera and dont think it is what I thought it would be (which has only happeaned one one). Then I can guarantee that a better one will be on my door step by 8 in the morning.
Go to my website and look at my experience page. Contact anyone of them and ask them if mace is cheap (as in low quality). They will think you are crazy person off the street.

do any of these look cheap?





every single one of them mace. The top are the least expensive cameras they sell. Never had a complaint. And the top two were used a job for the homeland security department anti terror job to secure a critical building. Was our first job for the government and actually is how we got our military account and dhs account. That one jobs quality has more almost trippled my income because of that ONE job. its obviously not CHEAP

:lol: Well coming from you Rory that isn't saying much. :lol:
Considering you equate COP cameras to X10 or Radio Shack cameras.

Really the Cam53CIR is the one that looks cheap. Not all of them.

I don't know I think a comparison between similar priced cameras would have to be done for a fair comparison.

Mace is basically in the same quality range as the Eclipse products, not near as bad as COP, but still low quality due to inexpensive components and low cost manufacturing.

what about the results? how do you feel about that?

The results look OK. Nothing spectacular. But for selling them for a living I think they will satisfy most people. If they are inexpensive for you to buy, people are satisfied and you can make enough profit to make it worthwhile than that is all that really counts.

L-side is the only one i can truly say looks high quality.

But there is alot more to a high quality product than what the image comes out with, such as power boards, and other components used, as well as the firmware. The Koreans and Japanese make the high quality CCTV gear these days, but they cost more. Then again what does that say about the GE cameras which are made in Taiwan :wink:

Once your clients are happy, and you're making a living, thats all that counts. .

The L-side shot does look real good compared to the others.

The one in the dark isn't bad. What camera is that one? What are the low light spec on it?

I wouldn't name drop the Homeland Security. We all know how good a job they are doing. :lol:

Just messin with you. :D

i can say the name just not where.
I understand that most of these are not HIGHEST quality. but would you look at the image and say they are cheap? Just by looking at the image.
And you are right that different boards and different components cost more. But to the end user they could care less if your components and board cost more as long as the image is good. Right? If I could push pelco and panasonic on the general public I would. But 99 out of 100 wont buy it. Thats where you go to something more affordable that still puts out a good image. Thats where this comes in.

I agree.

99 out of 100 people probably don't care about the highest quality because very few are willing to pay for it.

Most people want something that produces a clear image and doesn't cost them what they call an "Arm and a Leg", which translates to anything above $100. or less with the really cheap people. :D

me, ill take a $50 color camera and a light bulb any day .. alls I can afford :lol:

I hope that is your cost and not retail. :D

when cheap people call and say they want to know how much it would be for a system they mean cameras. They act suprised when you bring up the recorder. And then do not want to pay for labor also. They see think ,"ok a camera is probably 100 or so". So if i get 8 then thats 800 dollars." Those people i just hang up on.

Lets face it the majority of people don't have a clue how much this stuff costs. Unless of course they are like the many people who want everything at your cost and you to install everything for free. :o

There is always going to be the "Something for Nothing" crowd. It's just the way it is. :(

We are so off topic I think we are going to get a ticket. :lol:

Yeah down here, its even worse, they want that price but then they dont realise its x 3 once its landed, plus we have to make a couple dollars profit and also something to warranty it .. warranty includes more shipping to send it back and have it shipped back again in the case it fails .. and shipping is expensive .. so the mark up on "cheaper" products down here are much more than that on higher quality products ... but they all can fail so the mark up is alot either way. Alot of them see those web sites I wont mention names, and think that is the end user price ... at that point i say sure, buy it yourself, but labour goes up x 3 and good luck with the warranty :P

Jasper, thats retail BTW :lol:

Anyway, thats why I can sell them a cheap alarm system for much less than a cheap CCTV system, or any CCTV system ... and the alarm system is easier and quicker to install, especially since they are wireless ... :wink:

Darnit, I got suckered into puttin a single BW bullet camera in for a client tomorrow .. basically after gas and traffic im almost doing it for free ... never again :cry:

Well you got to get out of the house sometimes to give your eyes a rest from staring at the computer screen all day.

Plus the muggers feel like you are not giving them an equal opportunity to rob you. :lol: Just kidding, don't want anything to happen to you. :(

An alarm system tells you when and where you are being broken into the moment it happens. A video system is after the fact, and it still doesn't tell you who did it. (Or some guy with a hooded sweatshirt, or ballcap & sunglasses).

At my house the police response is 5 minutes. If I accidentally set off my alarm I sit out on the front stairs because that's how fast they come. I have clients where the burglar alarm went off and the police caught the guy in the act.

I dispute the notion of 98% false alarms, because they are not false alarms when in fact the system functioned properly but detected someone other than a burglar.

Police departments like to throw out that number when they try to calculate how much it is costing them. But they don't take into account how many more patrol cars & detectives they would need if there were no alarm systems at all, and burglars could enter any building undetected.

If folks don't think burglar alarms work, then why do most local, state, & government buildings have them (like FBI field offices, and DOD.)



That the infectiveness of them helps our industry alot. Because most of the time the person is never caught. Because what is an alarm going to tell you besides the fact that you had been broken into? If the suspect is gone. You have no video. Pretty much they were able to tell you that you were broken into. You would have figured that out. When we had to go through the NBFAA certification the guy that heads the Arkansas BFAA said and I quote, "the national average is not measured in minutes its measured in hours. We are allowed to call the police once an hour. And we will call 3 times to ensure they have responded".
Thats real assuring. You might say that that is the polices fault for the response time. Well if the alarm industry did not have a 98% false alarm rating they would respond faster. What other industry can you think of that you can fail 98% of the time and still be in business?

That's true... but on the other hand, it doesn't require a lot of intelligence to be a criminal, and they'll do some pretty stupid things. Example: I was asked to try to enhance a perp's face as he was filmed walking away from a vehicle break-in in an underground parking structure with an armload of stuff. He had a cap on and kept his head down so his face was not visible... BUT!

Looking at the other cameras from the structure, I found an angle of him riding a bike in through the stuck-open security gate... then on the next camera caught him riding up under that camera, circling around once... and then LOOKING STRAIGHT UP INTO THE CAMERA. Got a STELLAR facial ID! From there he rode off toward the third camera, which captured him walking around the far side the vehicle (it was obvious from his clothing and the timestamp that it was the same person), then walking back with his ill-gotten booty.

The client was happy... the investigating cop loved it! I never did hear if they caught the guy, but the cop said the perp was well-known to them.



Well the stupid thing is, most people consider it a "false alarm" if the police get there and there are no perps around and nothing has been stolen... well if someone is trying to get in, sets off the alarm, and then bolts, isn't that the alarm doing its job?

We had one city councillor here (Vancouver, BC) a few years ago, one of these crusty NIMBY me-me-me types, who was trying to have car alarms banned from his district, using the old "they don't do any good, they're all false alarms" bugaboo. When he was guest on a radio talk show, cops and insurance spokesmen all stated that car alarms work to reduce theft, that they are proven effective... but he refused to believe them. Caller after caller detailed how their vehicles had been broken into numerous times, and then never again since they'd got an alarm... and still he kept up his diatribe, insisting that these anecdotes were just anomalies and that alarms really were completely ineffective since they were almost all falses.

If nothing else, an alarm draws peoples' attention - whether they're concerned about someone being broken into, or just pissed off at the noise, they ARE more likely to notice... and the last thing a thief wants is to have attention drawn to himself.

Shoot :!:

I thought you were going to tell us his car was stolen while he was doing the radio show. :lol:

or at least broken into :lol:

[quote:06abe87ab4="securitymonster"]

or at least broken into :lol: