Guys how can i make my computer into a dvr? I thought i read that i can get a dvr card?? where do i get one? any after that what is the process that is required to make it work?

yes, you can make a computer into a DVR, BUT, the computer specs need to support DVR card.

I thought I might have said you can buy a DVR card :) you can get one via online or via resellers here in the forum. you'll need to find either on your own.

the process; wake up, SSS, coffee with cream, surf Forums, check email, eat a baggle, more coffee, more surfing, then;
- update PC OS & Drivers, virus check may also be a good idea. take virus software OFF after you check.
- install DVR card into PC
- more coffee, maybe a doughnut or poptart?
- install DVR software
- connect camera(s) to test
- test camera/software.
- connect to network
- test network
- call a friend and bragg about your new video security system.........
- post a link here on the Forum to showoff your hard work

Your questions are way too broad. You need to read as many posts on this forum and then start asking more specific questions that specifically target a manufacture or product. Most of your questions will be answered if you take time to look.

semper

You will want the PC to be dedicated to being the DVR. And I am not just saying that because it's my excuse to build a brand new computer. Being a DVR taxes a system, so running other programs will cause problems at some point. Yes, you can have other programs on it, but don't expect the DVR PC to be your main internet, email, powerpoint, photo sharing PC.

As far as cards go, I perfer Geovision, as do many others on the site. Another good brand favored is Avermedia. I have never used them, so I couldn't tell you much about them. These two brands are excellent, but do have a higher cost. You get what you pay for. Hikivision is also widely available, but I have not used their systems either.

You can also buy on ebay. If you do, I urge caution. That great deal on a Geovision card for $50... probably is an illegal clone, won't work, and we simply can not help you with that problem. As said above, you get what you pay for. If in doubt, get our feedback before you bid, buy, trade, etc.

I suggest buying from a reseller on this site, or someone they recommend, simply because they know the product is actual, and not a fake.

Also, we have members here who represent the various manufacturers, and are very helpful with troubleshooting. We have Alnet, Geovision, and Hikivision that I recall off the top of my head.

Just a couple of points

Make sure that the computer your going to use has an available PCI slot for the card to fit into. You will also want to determine what operating system the card software will run on. Also be sure that your not using another video capture device on your computer such as a tv capture card or video editing card. This will cause conflicts with the software drivers.

I also agree that if your going to use your PC as a DVR, that's the sole function it should be dedicated to. If this is for home use and not a real complex system, there are a lot of inexpensive cards on the market that do a good job.

You don't need a dvr card :) ... just a network card

Install an Ip system... with network cameras :)

When you find that $50 IP camera let us know ;)

As to the orginaly question, check out Geovision GV250, the Geo software lets you run it minimized also, or go back and forth from full window to minimized. Also being it is a slower card, less likely to crash the system as much as a faster one. HOWEVER, the newer Geo software uses alot of RAM, so make sure you have at the least 1Gb but suggested 2GB and better yet, 3GB. Also, depending on the CPU you have, running other videos at the same time can cause major issues - when I ran mine on my regular PC I had to stop the DVR software to play other videos (on a 2GHz AMD - yes, the GV250 even ran on a VIA chipset in the old days, cant speak for the newer software though as have not tested it with Via).

If at all possible, build or buy a seperate PC, you can use a KVM switch to use a single keyboard and mouse on 2 PCs.

lolol.... analog guys :) there was nothing in the original post about €50 cameras :) or quality
Besides, give me a good analolg cam for €50
Ok, I give you this much :) insted of a Dvr card he will need a good graphic card :)

And I give you the ECL-596 ;)

PS. there are no analog cameras left these days ;)

Hey rory :) come on already read in this forum that they are mid low range cams :) and for 50 bucks ... hummm I can get 2 webcams 800x600 or a network cam 640x480 :) hehehehe

webcam is not weatherproof, is USB, and software will suck.
network cams start around $200 for the most basic.

better than most axis Cameras ;)

Not a bad image... for €50 :)

Ok, I can do the same with €5, cheap webcam 640x480

:)

$50, not pounds ;)
Ive never seen a $10 webcam either, perhaps some cheap CMOS ones though available from Kmart :D

1-Can you put that webcam outside? (without additional expense - and no looking through a window is useless)
2-Can it be connected to a DVR card (or NVR software) with full featured software, motion detection, various compression methods, etc etc etc, and for what cost?
3-Can it see anything at night? (never seen a cheap webcam that could see much of anything under low light)
4-How far can you run the cable for that webcam (USB extenders?) and how much is that cable.
5-Can you plug that Webcam into your TV for viewing in your living room?
6-Whats the lifespan on that webcam, 24 hours a day.
7-Whats the max and min temp ratings on that webcam?
8-Whats the warranty on that $10 webcam?
9-Can you get that Webcam in BW or with IR?
10-Can you add more cameras and view them in a quad view? (this goes back to the software issue)

not pounds euros, 1 euro = 1.4825 dollars

Yap webcams are cheap nowadays :) but they still have a better frame rate than your analog ;) ... running at 640x480 res.

Of course I would never recommend webcams for professional security systems , that was just to show you that a crappy, cheap webcam as a better performance than a low mid analog cam :)


Answering your questions. Imagine a network cam for 150 euros
1. yes I can put a ip cam outside
2. no, i don't need to spend money on a dvr card or sofware, sofware usually comes it the Ip cam.
3. yes I can see at night as much as a normal analog cam without IR
4. I can use cat5 and put the camera 100 meters away
5. Yes I can plug my Ip cam to the tv
6. Normal lifespan for eletronics.... if not warranty
7. Normal, same as analog
8. In europe all electronics have at least 2 year warranty
9. Yes
10. Yes I can add more cameras and have more than quad view

Does your analog camera include DVR card and software for 50 dollars?

No no you misunderstood, we are talking about WebCams, not IP cameras. Webcams use USB typically and are horrible CMOS. Unless you spend for some very good software the ones that come with them are less than adequate for any kind pf surveillance.

Also, how can that Webcam have better frame rates than my REAL TIME MOTION Video $50 camera?

First, we were talking about WebCams, not IP cameras.


Not without an additional housing, or an IP camera that is built for outdoors and then it will cost more.



Please name the software, as you will typically not get any kind of software that comes remotely close to the software you will get with a DVR card, bar paying $75-150 per camera.


Please name this new remarkable cheap Webcam. Also please name any cheap IP cameras that can do that.


Fair enough, but we were not talking about IP cameras, we were talking about WebCams which typically use USB.


Really? Please name this remarkable cheap IP camera that can plug into the TV (without additional hardware). Ofcourse we WERE talking about WebCams though, not IP cameras.


The $50 webcam?


Outdoor IP Camera?
Also, please name the remarkable webcam that can do this.
In fact, please name the cheap IP camera that can do this.


For IP cameras, fair enough, as they are charging enough for it.
$50 webcams have 2 year warranty also?


Fair Enough, they have some cheap KINAMAX IR Webcams, but they are rather useless for surveillance purposes, 6 small IRs out to maybe 3-5 feet, Terrible image Quality, Washed out colors (same with cheap CCTV cameras though).

And as for the IP camera, please name this remarkable cheap IP camera that comes in BW and or with IR - BW is the key here.


Okay, fair enough with IP software, BUT, if you see what comes with WebCams you already know it comes with basic Single view software, and the free ones out there for Webcams are, well, horrid.


For $50? Ofcourse not, $150. The point is though, even with an IP camera, to get software that comes close to the one that comes with the DVR card (at no extra charge), for IP cameras, you must pay $75-150 per camera. Otherwise please name other software you know of that comes with this remarkable cheap IP or Webcam that you believe can match the DVR software.

I guess I should have asked, have you used any DVRs before, and if so, which ones?

Really, I just want to know about this Webcam and software, cause I wanna get one! :)

My Software requirements are pretty simple:

-Minimize, Maximize and Full Screen
-Full Screen or Minimized on Start
-Multiple User Accounts with individual privileges
-Motion Detection Recording
-Masking/Unmasking of Video areas
-Individual Settings per camera
-Pre and Post record to RAM
-Record to AVI
-Various Compression: at least Mpeg4, optional H.264 for remote video only
-Stable Drivers and Easy to Install
-24/7 Stable Software
-Audio recording
-Live, Record, Remote Video, and Playback at the same time
-Multiple Views in Live and Playback
-Portable Playback Application for CD/DVD/USB Drive
-SDK availability always preferred

Those are all I typically use, might have forgotten to mention one or two but that should give you the jist of what I like in my Surveillance software.

Thanks! :lol:

"Post subject:
You don't need a dvr card ... just a network card
Install an Ip system... with network cameras"

That is what I recommended at the top of the post. The webcam was just to compare the image with yours :)

Ok, about the Ip system :)

Ip Camera Outdoor Enclosure Thermal BARRIERdsc45
Securicam Internet Camera Outdoor Enclosure DCS-45 provides a cost-effective solution for protecting your Internet Camera from the rigors of outdoor use. The fixed-type enclosures include heavy duty, angle-adjustable mounting bracket that can be used to secure the camera on a vertical or horizontal surface. Maximize the full potential of your Internet Cameras to secure and protect your business.
The DCS-45 includes a thermal barrier design to withstand temperature fluctuations and a flip open top for easy installation.

DCS-3220/2000 Ip camera
• Listen and Talk with 2-Way Audio1
• 4x Digital Zoom2 for Close-up Viewing
• Built-in Motion Detection
Remote Management
•Configuration can be accessed via Web browser
Networking Protocol
•TCP/IP, H T T P, S M T P, F T P, Telnet, NTP, DNS, DHCP, UPnPTM and DDNS Support
Connectivity
10/100Mbps Fast Ethernet
Audio
2-Way Audio1
•Built-in Microphone
•8Kbps
General I/O
•1 Opto-isolated Sensor Input (max.12V DC 50mA)
•1 Relay Output (max. 24V DC 1A, 125V AC 0.5A)
Camera Specification
•¼” CCD Sensor
•1 Lux @ F2.0
•AGC/AWB
•Electronic Shutter: 1/60~1/15000 sec.
•Standard CS Mount Type Lens 6mm, F1.8
•4x Digital Zoom2
Security
•Administrator and User Group Protected
•Password Authentication
Viewing System Requirement Protocol
•ActiveX
Operating System
•Microsoft Windows® XP, 2000, Me
LEDs
•Bi-color Status Indicator
Power
•External Power Supply
•12VDC 1.5A
•Power Consumption 4.8W
Dimensions
•6.25”L x 3.25”W x 2.12”H
Weight
•8.5 oz.
Warranty
•1 Year


IP Surveillance 3.00 good or bad, it comes with it for free. Have you tried it? and yes, it remotely sounds like a security software... almost all cameras come with at least a stand alone security software... some even firmware... how many analog cameras come with that? I can plug an Ip camera to a router with internet connection and run it without computer, ... can you do that with an analog camera?


... amazon :) is selling them both for 300 dollars total more or less :) I guess you can get them elsewhere cheaper :)

About naming cheap Ip cameras ....lol many... and you will be amazed this year :) examples,
Axis 206 around 100 dollars
Linksys WVC54GC Compact Wireless-G Internet Video Camera 90 dollars
many more cheaper :) and not recommended :)

Naming Ip cameras that you can plug in to the tv... all through the Pc.. no additional costs there, all pc's (graphic cards) come with Tv out (dvi, hdmi or S-Video)...some directly (bnc plug)

About BW all, IR some models more expensive you are right there... name a cheap analog IR cam?

Yes I have used dvr's before mainly conexant chips... Have you used Axis, Acti, D-link, Mobotix, etc, Ip cameras and software, based on win2003, SMB, linux?

Don't take me wrong...but the idea that an Ip system is extremely expensive when compared with an analog is a thing of the past... 3 years ago. Nowadays is not extremely any more. And like I said, you will see many more changes this year and in the years to come. And about the quality, just a person that never saw Megap Ip cameras could say that, the difference is outrageous. About the system expansion and management capabilities :) well analog is a thing of the past, being limited to the dvr card ;) performance, chip and number of analog cameras input (4,8,16,32) some are stackable but that implies buying another dvr card and being limited again :)... Ip there's no limits (except for the software maybe is you use the type that you have to buy a license for each camera... but I gess that a camera license for an Ip software is cheaper than stackable dvr card :)

Well I guess we have to talk better about this, and this forum looks like the right place.

First I want to say .. dont take any of this to heart .. its still just opinions and from different user experiences from different parts of the world - I commend you for using Cameras for Surveillance - CCTV or IP - either way. Also I really dont want to argue IP vs CCTV cameras as that has been done already here, but will just reply to the questions as best I can right now :)

So, now down to business :lol:

That camera: DCS-2000 is 320x240 Resolution, the Camera I posted is 510x492. Its a cheap D Link camera basically.

No, I have not used it, and I don't plan to. It is CMOS and 2.5 Lux, I require at least 1 lux or better yet 0.5 which comes with the basic $50 color cameras; 0.1 lux with the BW cameras. DVRs comes with Full Featured Software (depends on the brand ofcourse) and those are the ones I use - eg. GeoVision. Im sorry, but that example of an IP camera does not Cut it, I have seen better for a little more money. Thats like buying a $5 CCTV camera, just does not work for us.

Now to answer the questions.



A CCTV camera itself does not, but you dont need it unless you want to record. The software comes with the card, whether it is a 2 channel or a 32 channel or a 64 channel card, same software. You can just plug that Camera into the TV, infact you can use an existing VCR if you have one collecting dust somewhere. Or just get a budget DVR card from a good name brand, and you are good to go.



Once again, you dont need it unless you need Remote Video. In that case yes you need either a DVR card or a Video Server. In fact a Video Server and the CCTV camera could come out to be cheaper depending on the model, actually who needs that, I can buy a Stand Alone DVR with Network for $100 these days. The CCTV camera will work regardless of computer or network anyway, it just works, it will not crash, needs no firmware, no bugs to work out and we are using RG59 Coax instead of flimsy cat5 (well thats a cable topic for another day).


Thats alot more than the $50 camera hey :D


Actually thats going for $195 on Amazon.


Best to stick with the Axis, that Linksys one is very low res.



Ok so first you need a PC (many home users just want to view the camera on their TV to see who is outside, no recording even in many cases, so being restricted in needing the PC is going to be a pain), then from there you have to run another wire from the Video out on the graphics card (if the PC even has one, as many just have on board video, otherwise you will need to buy an additional card for that which TV out), which is typically S-Video, so you then need an S-Video to RCA converter (some $20 for that) then run that out to the TV .. lots of work IMO. Sure though, anything is possible.


Cheap CCTV camera with IR, Hmmm .. $35. BW Cameras that can see in little to no light and still great quality, $50. If you would like snapshots, let me know, I have many :)



I have tested tons of them. I dont use them in the field as none have what I need. In fact the only place I see them useful is for MegaPixel, but that is not the topic of this discussion and I would not use Axis or D-Link for that. I would like to know more about the actual brand of DVRs you have used also, to make this whole discussion valid. Saying they had a Conexant chip doesn't tell us anything, there are many generic cards with those and no software to run them, or whatever 3rd party software that is recommended for them - in no way does that type of software compare to a professional DVR software app - eg. GeoVision, Video Insight, etc. In the case of the Geo you can get the GV250 or GV600 for little cost and you still get the full featured Geo software included.



Price is still much higher, not as much as in the past, but the quality to price ratio is still significant, not to mention requiring a network to run it, which in itself brings new issues into the equation.


Are we on the same page here? We were not discussing MegaPixel Cameras, just VGA and CIF IP cameras to be specific, going by the low price requirements. I have seen many MegaPixel Cameras, in fact I have one sitting right in front of me.


You are correct, there is not such as thing as Analog systems, in fact there have not been any analog systems for many years now.



So you buy the card you require. If you are a pro in the industry you will have some idea of how many cameras you will require or how many you think you may add in the future, thats all part of the quotation, and specking the system out properly. Add another card if needed, or just use a couple StandAlone DVRs. And thats only if you want to record it, otherwise just plug them into your TV or a cheap quad or mux.

There are many limitations with IP based Surveillance systems and it has been talked about already on the forum. Requires a Network for starters, to view the cameras you require a Computer, and a search will bring up the threads with all the other issues related to those, and also those related to CCTV systems, DVRs, cameras, etc. Nothing is without limitations and nothing is future proof - nothing is 100%.

$50 CCTV camera, $100 DVR card, got full featured software and a great image, no network issues unless you really need remote video. 510x492 Image Pixels or pay an extra $30 for the 811x508 Pixels. Plug and play, use a BNC T Connector with a cheap BNC-RCA Adaptor and plug it into your TV - its a done deal and its cheap. :)

Dont get me wrong, if there was something out there worth using, I would, I am sure many of the pros would, It just isn't there quite yet, at least not on the cheap. Either way there will always be the network requirement, and unfortunately with cheap applications (eg. the Ghetto) many clients will never have that.

To end, I'm not even endorsing the cheap budget CCTV cameras, I would recommend getting something better, for a bit more, but one can only buy what they can afford (I would love to have Extreme CCTV cameras all over my place here but ..). There are high res versions and even the real pro cameras, you get what you pay for, same with the IP cameras. If you want a Webcam or Cheap Bullet camera then that is what you will pay for. And Regardless of the camera, software is still key. Also for additional clarity on this topic, I am not discussing MegaPixel Cameras!! :)

No, no taking it to the heart, hope you don't to. Besides I respect your opinion and you probably have bunch more more years of experience than me, and I'm not the type of forcing people to believe as I do... just don't be stuck to values and technologies that are outdated when compared to an emerging technology. The fact is, like or not, this is the future, one system will get stronger one will get weaker. 3 years ago Ip had a maybe 20% share of market when compared to analog, now depending country to country it may have 40 to 60% of share, and it's going to increase a lot more. I'm happy to say that I'm in a country where big companies take security very seriously, and they buy high end Megap Ip systems, the share here is probably 50% 50% but the high ends systems are all going Ip :), so I have nothing to complain about.
About your camera, please provide full specs and manufacturer country and webpage, and the final price in any major retail store J. I will comment about it after I read it‘s full specs, and see the availability of the camera in the market.
About the d-link camera J guess you didn‘t read the camera full specs... video resolution up to 704x480 so, I guess this camera actually outperforms yours J. But you are right, it‘s a cheap one like yours.

I know geovison is a really nice dvr card, but let‘s see if I want to install 65 cameras J how many cards would I need and how much would I have to spend.


„A CCTV camera itself does not, but you don't need it unless you want to record. The software comes with the card, whether it is a 2 channel or a 32 channel or a 64 channel card, same software. You can just plug that Camera into the TV, in fact you can use an existing VCR if you have one collecting dust somewhere. Or just get a budget DVR card from a good name brand, and you are good to go. „
The fact is, that it doesn‘t and you need to buy a dvr card. Budget DVR card from good brand... don‘t know what that is, it goes against what you say about quality systems. Please provide those facts, brand, website, availability, final price for the consumer?


„Once again, you don't need it unless you need Remote Video. In that case yes you need either a DVR card or a Video Server. In fact a Video Server and the CCTV camera could come out to be cheaper depending on the model, actually who needs that, I can buy a Stand Alone DVR with Network for $100 these days. The CCTV camera will „work regardless of computer or network anyway, it just works, it will not crash, needs no firmware, no bugs to work out and we are using RG59 Coax instead of flimsy cat5 (well that's a cable topic for another day).
I don‘t know about the U.S.A, but here 60 to 90% of costumers do remote view, it‘s basic, standard security option. So you need an extra 100 dollars to buy something cheap because an Axis good quality Ip matrix cost more than 500 dollars. Yes cables....lol. and coax, we can discuss that in another area and day J stopped being used in networking in the 80‘s ... bus networks with terminations J


"Best to stick with the Axis, that Linksys one is very low res. "
The linksys is one excellent brand that belongs to Cisco (don't know if you know it?), linksys as probably one of the best wireless systems around :) res 640x480... not very far from your camera :) How much do you have to paid for a wireless analog camera :)?


"Ok so first you need a PC (many home users just want to view the camera on their TV to see who is outside, no recording even in many cases, so being restricted in needing the PC is going to be a pain), then from there you have to run another wire from the Video out on the graphics card (if the PC even has one, as many just have on board video, otherwise you will need to buy an additional card for that which TV out), which is typically S-Video, so you then need an S-Video to RCA converter (some $20 for that) then run that out to the TV .. lots of work IMO. Sure though, anything is possible. "
That's a really complicated setup for something really simple :)... if they just want to see without pc, it's very easy, many Ip cameras come with bnc plug, besides the client may even watch what is going on remotely even without the pc, they just need internet connection. Can you do that with analog?


"Cheap CCTV camera with IR, Hmmm .. $35. BW Cameras that can see in little to no light and still great quality, $50. If you would like snapshots, let me know, I have many "
Lol ... no miracles there same for Ip... it's a question of sensor :) almost all advertise low light conditions operational.


"I have tested tons of them. I don't use them in the field as none have what I need. In fact the only place I see them useful is for MegaPixel, but that is not the topic of this discussion and I would not use Axis or D-Link for that. I would like to know more about the actual brand of DVRs you have used also, to make this whole discussion valid. Saying they had a Conexant chip doesn't tell us anything, there are many generic cards with those and no software to run them, or whatever 3rd party software that is recommended for them - in no way does that type of software compare to a professional DVR software app - eg. GeoVision, Video Insight, etc. In the case of the Geo you can get the GV250 or GV600 for little cost and you still get the full featured Geo software included. „

Brand of Dvr? mainly Tibet, comes with software... You don't like Axis?, it's one of the world biggest supplier of network cams medium res and Megap and related equipment. Really nice stuff and user friendly. So tell me what would you use for megap cams? By the way, what type of servers do you use for your Ip installations?


„Price is still much higher, not as much as in the past, but the quality to price ratio is still significant, not to mention requiring a network to run it, which in itself brings new issues into the equation. „
Price is not much higher, 99% of companies already have networks running (no cost). Your camera actually cost 50 dollars plus the dvr card to make your system run.



„So you buy the card you require. If you are a pro in the industry you will have some idea of how many cameras you will require or how many you think you may add in the future, thats all part of the quotation, and specking the system out properly. Add another card if needed, or just use a couple StandAlone DVRs. And thats only if you want to record it, otherwise just plug them into your TV or a cheap quad or mux. „
Techinicians may be excellent professionals and make really good and futuristic calculations, but clients are money concerned, so like you know, they tend to go for the cheapest solution, and in a dvr card system it means that if they want 3 cams they will go for 4 inputs cards and not 8, 16 or 32. And what happens frequently in the future is that they want to expand the system without major costs ... And the funny thing is that, many clients usually just buy an IP matrix for those analog cams and get new Ip system with the old analog incorporated.


„There are many limitations with IP based Surveillance systems and it has been talked about already on the forum. Requires a Network for starters, to view the cameras you require a Computer, and a search will bring up the threads with all the other issues related to those, and also those related to CCTV systems, DVRs, cameras, etc. Nothing is without limitations and nothing is future proof - nothing is 100%. „
Agree, there‘s no system 100% safe, or perfect. But the way I see it and the market is saying, it's the analog system that as much more limitations "by nature" itself ;) can't even compare. I can run a Ip camera without network just need to plug it into a modem and I can remotely access it :) can you do the same with analog?


„$50 CCTV camera, $100 DVR card, got full featured software and a great image, no network issues unless you really need remote video. 510x492 Image Pixels or pay an extra $30 for the 811x508 Pixels. Plug and play, use a BNC T Connector with a cheap BNC-RCA Adaptor and plug it into your TV - its a done deal and its cheap. “
300 dollars for exterior, 80 for interior (computer, you also need a computer for you dvr card) better resolution, remote view, POE, expansion to many cameras without problems and limitations, plug and play, cheap Cat5 and the possibility of running power throught it, really cheap rj45 plugs. Cheap and future proof.


„Dont get me wrong, if there was something out there worth using, I would, I am sure many of the pros would, It just isn't there quite yet, at least not on the cheap. Either way there will always be the network requirement, and unfortunately with cheap applications (eg. the Ghetto) many clients will never have that. „
There‘s plenty out there, and there much more in the near future. Lol about the network requirements, I don‘t understand what you mean by that... don‘t you need coax for your cams? And run the coax to the dvr card inside the Pc? Network is the same... cams, cat5, switch, pc. So the only difference would be a switch that is, cheap, plug and play :) doesn‘t require any configs ... don't you also need to implement a sort of coax bus network until your dvr card? Honestly and to tell you the truth, I think the real issue is related to the technicians. Much of the fuzz is simply because many cctv technicians have no knowledge of networking, Ip configs, servers, etc. which I'm really sorry about, many times they just say bad things about the Ip systems because they can't understand it or adapt to it, it's more or less a psychological denial of what is obvious and is going to happen. Because in the hardware part the systems are almost the same (cam, cable, Pc) the only difference is the knowledge to make them run ;)... Please, by saying this, don't take me wrong because I'm not actually referring to you. But you know it's the truth.


„To end, I'm not even endorsing the cheap budget CCTV cameras, I would recommend getting something better, for a bit more, but one can only buy what they can afford (I would love to have Extreme CCTV cameras all over my place here but ..). There are high res versions and even the real pro cameras, you get what you pay for, same with the IP cameras. If you want a Webcam or Cheap Bullet camera then that is what you will pay for. And Regardless of the camera, software is still key. Also for additional clarity on this topic, I am not discussing MegaPixel Cameras!! “
Right there, agree 100% with you, either analog or Ip, we should only endorse good quality equipment ;) and that is usually very expensive. But costumers have a mind of their own and many want cheap. Software, there‘s always room for improvements in either systems, you say that yours is free and it‘s good (it better be good because it‘s probably the only one that will run with the dvr card :), Ip it‘s free too, usually comes with the camera, but I can install manyyyy others without dvr card driver issues :) from free to cheap to extremely professional and expensive, many more will come in the near future.

Please, once again, don't take my words wrong. Just discussion diferent views and opinions.

Which camera, the OEM $50 bullet camera? You can buy that under many names, in this case it is the Eclipse ECL-596. No additional hardware needed, no network, no PC. :)




InCorrect:
http://www.dlink.com/products/resource.asp?pid=142&rid=552&sec=0
Up to 30fps at 160x120
Up to 30fps at 320x240



You would need multiple Systems but we are not discussing that here - THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC. Either way, the DVR will still come out considerably cheaper.




Sorry no store links are allowed here, but please do check out the GeoVision GV250 for further information, or even the GV600. It is their entry level card, but it utilizes the full software.




Im not in the USA, but in ghetto communities anywhere in the world, there is very little internet connection due to the monthly costs incurred. I am happy you live in a wealthy country though :)




First, we are not talking about Wireless, but to match the wireless capability of that camera, not a whole lot!

Ofcourse I know Linksys, they are great for network routers, modems, etc, but not for a Surveillance Camera. Here are the real specs on that camera also, perhaps they changed them for your country?

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1134691947479&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

"The advanced MPEG-4 video compression produces a high-quality, high-framerate, up to 320x240 video stream."

"Image Sensor CMOS
Lens Fixed Focus
Resolution 320x240, 160x128"

Also if you check out the reviews of this camera on lets say, New Egg, you will find that its quality is very degraded, it is a very basic $5 camera, whoops, $100 IP camera.




1 -There is not such a thing as ANALOG.
2 - Please forget Remote Video, I did not ask that, home users like to watch it right at home on their TV (but yes you can simply add a webserver to the camera if you wanted it remote).
3 - None of the cameras you suggested have BNC.




Ok then. :roll:




1-Tibet? Never heard of it.
2-Yes, Axis is DIY
3-I build my own servers.




Please, HOME USER, HOME USER, HOME USER.
I actually dont need any DVR Card, I can just plug it into the TV! :)




If they run out of cameras, then they can simply add another card, in many cases it is the same cost as paying for all those additional IP channels.
But ofcourse, we are not here to dicuss Systems, just the camera.




Someone has been really pounding you with myths and misconceptions, please enter the CCTV industry from the start and use regular CCTV to see what it is like first. There is not such thing as ANALOG SYSTEM and the Limitations of IP systems are very clear.




You also need computer for your IP camera, and you need a network :D
I dont need a Computer for the CCTV Camera, only need it if I want to record to a hard drive.
Everything else you listed is not unique to IP Cameras, and in most cases, UNLESS IT IS MEGAPIXEL, the quality from highly compressed IP cameras is much worse.




You need to install a network, and networks have their own limitations/requirmements/stability problems.




So you say you use cheap Network switches?
The switch is just something else to go wrong, plus the cable is flimsy.




No idea what you mean.




Actually it is the other way around. These days you will find most CCTV techs know networking INSIDE AND OUT, and that IP Camera resellers have little to no knowledge of the CCTV or Surveillance industry - and that is actually why IP Cameras are taking so long to get where they need to be, that is why they are still rarely ever used in the real world - Megapixel is what WILL take them to the next level though. I mean really, networking is so simple, kids are out there installing and maintaining networks. Now CCTV on the other hand, that takes years of experience.




I have tried all the free IP software out there and they are rubbish.
The DVR Card is cheap, the company that sells the card is actually a software developer and that is what they charge for, yes, you pay for the software and the card in a single price.

The Difference is that if you were to ever use a Real DVR System you would understand completely what I am even discusssing here, no Driver Issues, full featured software that blows (most) IP only software apps away - Remember, software developers that make the DVR apps also know IP inside and out, and so do I.

But right now I feel like I am still talking to a wall. :(

"But right now I feel like I am still talking to a wall" Rory I think your response was very well grounded, and a wall is only as strong as its footing.

"Which camera, the OEM $50 bullet camera?"
:) great OEM camera, nothing like the Republic of China, sure much better than d-link or linksys... what was I thinking!!! sorry about that :)


"InCorrect:"
Also sorry :), about the d-link res :) your link cleary shows a diferent camera from mine... your link is pointing at DCS 2000 and my camera refence is the DCS-3220 :) with 704x480 sold in amazon for 300 dollars :) with exterior housing :)
h t t p : / / w w w . dlink c o m/products/resource.asp?pid=350&rid=1250&sec=0


"You would need multiple Systems but we are not discussing that here"
Yes, let's not discuss multiple analog systems €€€€€€ and expansion capabilities.

"check out the GeoVision GV250"
I guess GeoVison, if not OEM :) should be really good dvr cards, but unfortunately I'm not interested in buying or recommending any dvr systems. I leave that part of the business to you, you can give me the Ip part :).


"Im not in the USA, but in ghetto communities anywhere in the world"
Really sorry about that, guess in ghettos in USA there is no internet connection, or networks, just good quality dvrs from PRP? Can you actually sell anything there, analog even?

"First, we are not talking about Wireless"
No, I guess we are talking just about the points that interest you.... right :) guess ghettos????!!!!!! don't have linkys or wireless, just PRC quallity stuff.

"Ofcourse I know Linksys"
extract from linksys website :) ... Unlike standard "web cams" that require an attached PC, the Internet Home Monitoring Camera contains its own web server, so it can connect directly to a network, either over Wireless-G (802.11g) networking, or over 10/100 Ethernet cable. Choose either MPEG-4 or Motion JPEG video compression for a high-quality, high-framerate, up to 640x480 video stream.


"First, we are not talking about Wireless"
yes let's not talk about that, guess your OEM does that to... zzzz :) guess linksys is not a good brand, or suitable for ghettos?!?!?!?! just OEM PRP...


"Also if you check out the reviews of this camera on lets say, New Egg"
quality degraded when compared to what??? :) guess another Ip cam and not an OEM analog cam.
newegg website review :)
Decent Wireless Camera for $100

Reviewed By: elmusa on 2/19/2006
Rating + 3Rating + 3Rating + 3Rating + 3Rating + 3
Tech Level: high - Ownership: 1 day to 1 week

Pros: Simple setup; support for 128-bit WEP, fairly fast through the web interface, no antenna to deal with
Cons: Big and Bulky; Video quality is just ""OK""; uses .asf files for video encoding


"2 - Please forget Remote Video, I did not ask that, home users like to watch it right at home on their TV "
yes let's forget about the remote view too :) guess that OEM does it better ;) ... Don't agree, users like to watch their house or office or store remotely through WAN... that comment is outdated 5 to 6 years.


"3 - None of the cameras you suggested have BNC."
none of the cameras you suggested remarkably resemble the capabilities of any Ip camera, except for the res .... maybe :)


"Ok then"
Ip cameras can be bought with IR :) ... I guess your OEM cam comes with it?!


"1-Tibet? Never heard of it. "
Sorry guess this taiwan brand doesn't reach there, well they actually have a website.... can send you an email with it :)


"3-I build my own servers. "
What is the definition of server to you? Is that computer running win2003, linux, with quad processor with 4gb ram, external scsi on raid 0,1,5,10 with blade system thought optical cable? Or more or less domestic computer with a PCI dvr card?


"Please, HOME USER,HOME USER, HOME USER"
sure, let's not talk about that and forget the companies :) is that a ghetto thing to ?!?!?!?!


"I actually dont need any DVR Card, I can just plug it into the TV! Smile"
Can also do that and have remote view :), forgot.... no remote view allowed :)


"If they run out of cameras, then they can simply add another card"
Yes, if the first one is stakable :) let's keep on adding cards, €€€€€€€:) don't forget that you only have 2 or 3 PCI slots nowadays inside the computer :) you better count very well your cameras :)


"There is not such thing as ANALOG SYSTEM"
Back in the 80's most of analog was recorded in VHS, Betamax, etc. you should read the comments the technicians said back then about having then recorded in hard drives :)... almost like this interesting discussion now :)


"the Limitations of IP systems are very clear"
Sure, they are but they are much smaller than your average anolog system.


"you also need computer for your IP camera, and you need a network"
Yes in a normal setup, sure :) like you need a computer with dvr card and and a bunch of straight coax cables :) to your dvr
But if I want I can plug an Ip camera directly to a modem :) or tv :) and I can remotely view it. And I will give another surprise now... some Ip cameras you don't even need to own a computer to do the recording, you can configure the firmware in order to have it connected through the internet into a 3 party server who will do the recording for you though h t t p or f t p. Is that the future or what... no more problems about having someone stealing your dvr pc with the recordings, no more problems about hard drive space... but I guess analog cams do the same :)

"You need to install a network"
No, the network is usually already there to begin with, you just need to plug the cameras into the network :) ... Like you need to run coax :) I guess coax is also easier to install when compared to cat5 ;) right?


"So you say you use cheap Network switches"
Yes, like a 8 door 1giga linksys switch, costs €40 :) in a network a switch is the most reliable, easy, stupid, transparent part.... to put it in BNC terms, like a BNC T :)


"No idea what you mean"
Don't you have to install coax cable :) from the cam to the dvr :)?????? or are those analog cam wireless :)


"networking is so simple, kids are out there installing and maintaining networks"
So network is not a problem now ????!!!! it was a moment ago :) they don't exist in ghettos ?!?!?!?!


"These days you will find most CCTV techs know networking INSIDE AND OUT"
hardly, with a few exceptions with any professional or university degree level and expertise... but then again :) they might think they have. Have 2 analog guys in my company, 40 and 55... no knowledge what so ever, unfortunately. Not even going to start talking about heavy duty rack servers :) and big company server rooms... like banks :)

"free IP software out there and they are rubbish"
Send an email and tell that to, for example:
AXIS Camera Station One
A software solution for the simultaneous viewing and recording of high-quality MPEG-4 and Motion JPEG video from a single surveillance camera
Besides how many software's can you install to run your favourite dvr card with working and stable drivers?

"Real DVR System"
Ok, guess it's not OEM, guess we can talk about that :)? How much would that cost, let's say dvr card for only 32 cams with soft included :)


"But right now I feel like I am still talking to a wall. "
You sure are :) I like facts and try to give you that (like specs, websites, prices, etc) .... you give me a lot of talk, and sci-fi fiction from the 70's (joke) but not many real facts, mainly fiction ;)



p.s PRP means People Republic of China :)

Well I was expecting some participation from other members.

Beside the smart, intelligent, constructive remark from this member that didn't happen.

So from my part I call it closed. And if you care to continue talking about this you can PM me.

It is from Taiwan I imagine, check out http://www.eclipsecctv.com, better yet, just take a look at the image I posted, it is clearly much better than most IP cameras. I also use and have used many expensive brand name cameras over the years, I specialize in Extreme CCTV Long Range Day Night IR Applications actually. Also used Sanyo and GE for years, both major players in the Surveillance World. In Fact GE Had Broadband Remote Video before many others.


Silly me, I was just using the model number you provided.
Well if you want a D-Link (Jokes) camera go right ahead. :D




We are discussing an IP camera (CIF and VGA) vs a $50 CCTV camera, if you want to discuss systems I would simply give you links to other previous discussions we have had on this topic.



GeoVision is not OEM. I think you are misunderstanding everything here, this entire industry actually, I deal with IP every single day, I get more down and dirty with IP than anyone that installs IP cameras does, every day of the week, and with .. DVRs!! So that is yet another myth that should be placed on the back burner for now, cause it makes no sense.



Im NOT in the USA. If you were in the CCTV Industry you would know exactly what I am talking about.



Linksys wireless is fine for basic room to room (I have a Linksys Cable Modem and Linksys Wireless Router sitting in front of me). If your home is made from cardboard sure it would work great, but in a country where we build using quality concrete and steel, those little toys are useless to the video industry for any worthwhile wireless.




I provided the specs direct from the Linksys web site, it is clear as day that it is only 320x240, whether or not you care to believe that, it does not matter.




Linksys is fine for Network Routers, Modems, etc, but NOT FOR SURVEILLANCE - they make inferior DIY products. Either way, the bottom line is this - now read and understand please - it still cost more than the $50 CCTV camera!!



I did not provide anything to be questioned, I provided facts. You can question all day long but the facts will remain the same.




Must be a language barrier. :roll:




Must be a language barrier. :roll:




Sure many cameras can be bought with IR, but no IP camera for $50, and yes you can get a CCTV OEM camera for $50 with IR.




Obviously you have not tried any real DVRs yet, please get back to us when you have actually been IN the CCTV industry.




Search the forum, I am not on this thread to teach you how to build Servers, DVRs, or anything else.



THAT IS THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD SIR.



Ive been in the CCTV Industry long enough to remember using VHS tapes. But that doesnt have anything to do with the price of tea in china, or the cost diff between a more expensive IP camera and a Cheaper $50 CCTV camera.



Yes, they are very clear. Everyone that knows the first thing about the Surveillance Industry and anything about Networking, will know even the most basic limitations associated with IP Systems.



Here we go with the Remote View again .. that just brought the cost up to $30 a month, that is now $360 for the year plus the cost of the camera, electricity etc. .. and wait if its Cable Internet then crap they gotta pay for the Tv also, another $30 a month .. oh wait you like businesses .. okay thats $150 a month instead of $30 a month so .. wow thats one heck of an expensive camera dude. :D



WOW, you cant be serious? LOL

News Flash, DVRs have been doing that for years, and anyone in the Industry also knows what an IP is capable of .. nothing new, in fact that is kids play.



Im sorry I cannot keep up this discussion, it is as mentioned, like talking to a brick wall, simple facts are being presented to the user who has no knowledge of the CCTV industry at all, and yet they turn around and start talking about something totally different ... anyway, perhaps someone else can join in and discuss with him and play teacher, I have work to do and millions to make. Please keep it on topic :)

-"Well I was expecting some participation from other members.Beside the smart, intelligent, constructive remark from this member that didn't happen" - Your tone from the outset was combative and as person who works in this industry Ive learned that nothing is set in stone. .. touting all the latest and greatest and making definitive conclusive remarks refering to traditional cctv security has been done for many years.Yet here we are in 2008 and there still exists a place for the older technology and methods just as well the "latest". Real world market points to large prodution amounts of non-IP cameras and related gear and that is a direct reflection of the demand. My remark was directed to Rory. I too look towards the forum for insights from other members but after reading the exchange on the topic, it seem to me to be argumentative. Have a great day and best of health to you.

Well I'm not answering anymore, it is clear the user does not deal with nor have any interest in CCTV and that it is going to just keep going off topic more and more, so I don't have the time. Will monitor the thread to make sure it stays on topic though and no store links are posted.

Lol read thits:!!!
[edit by mod - store link removed]

lololol is that real :) lolololol

Made me think twice :) well 3 times :) but not more than that, :)

Funny I noticed that the card is exactly like the Tibet I said earlier in this post (both from taiwan????), :) photocopies or clones with conexant chip.


The box looks different doe :)

WOW!

After reading all of these posts I think my head is going to blow!

I do have to say that analog or IP that each has it own place in an installation.

I am more of a low budget, and/or a residential installer, therefore I will not qualify myself as a professional installer, although I take my "profession" seriously.

I am amazed at how many different events that I have been involved with.

I have installed CCTV system in many mom n pop businesses, and some very small Professional companies.

I have been treated as if the server room was a dark secret, and only known how it operates by a few selected individuals of the company.

Once I get a key to the room all I do is plug in an RJ 45 connector shake the IT managers hand and leave. He is still standing there in confusion has he probably had some dumb speech that has been well rehearsed about what an IT god he is, and what a gift to the company he is, and how lucky that he stays with the company, and how he is only there as a favor to some relative, or friend that works there, and the company should be greatful.

I check in with the president of the company to make sure he can see the video, and then I am off. The President of the company surely had to go back to the IT guy, and ask for an explanation. I thought you said this was not going to work? I thought you said this was going to take a long time to make this thing work? I thought you said this was going to be hard?

Days in advance to the installation I had to beg for the IT manager to punch me a hole in his sonic firewall. I think he had more fun with the power then the actual job of managing IT.

I do not know why I had to go back to my office, and send off emails till I got a password to the system. A one day job became an overblown pain in my neck, but three feet lower.

On another installation they gave me the key to the server room, and I was surprised in how much trust they had in me going in there unsupervised!! I had the system wires ran from one building through an open entrance way, undergound, and into another building, and I ran wires to isolated corner "towers". It was a very fancy building, and pulling wires was a pain, and I was really lucky being able to find travel paths for all of my wires. I had the system working at the end of the day, and everything was setup on the sonic firewall as soon as the IT manager could put his fingers on a keyboard! Wired, setup, operational, and remotely operational in less than 10 hours!! I love jobs like this!!

I have been brought in to a large number of business that request that I solve some kind of problem of theirs. Some just invite me in to suck me dry for info, and then they resolve their own problems leaving without any income for my time. I do not allow this. They feel as if they do not have to pay for my time. They are not paying me for my time, but for my experience. I have seen many problems. It can range from ground loop issues, or the wrong kind of coax, or some kind of settings that need to be configured, or wireless cameras that are working outside of their design specifications, or any kind of equipment that is operating outside of it's design specifications.


There are some IT managers that I can spot in five seconds flat!! I know that if I make them look good in the process, and I know that I am going to get paid, then I also know that they will intoduce me to the "network" of other IT managers! I have talked to a senior member of the business ownership, and I have explained that the IT members did everything right, and the problem is........(make up a good story that keep the IT guys out of hot water). Your problem is wink wink a firmware problem. If you pay me $blank I will get you an updated version, and I will have installed by noon. Now I go back to the IT guy, and explain to him why he cannot do..... (use two wire conductor for video, use some wierd BNC crimp, or use a 2.5mm lens for facial recognition at a distance or what have you).

I now get calls from other companies that know that I can be descrete in resolving problems.


I look forward to the day when I can do everything from an IT perspective.

Yes IP is going to be the standard someday. Security whether physical, or IT, or CCTV is going to need plug, and play systems that can integrate with other systems.

It is nice that we have systems where you can swipe a card at the restaurant chain's headquarters, and your camera brings up your image to the security team, or it records it for review later, and then the access system opens the door, and you are clocked in, and the lights to the building come on to give you a lighted travel path to your office! The AC was turned on remotely by a computer one hour before your arrival, and the temp is comfortable. You can sit down at your desk and you can scan all ten of your restaurants various walkin, and reachin refridgerator temps before you find out that you have an issue, and that you may have to throw all of the food out that is loaded in to them because the compressor failed, or the fans quit blowing!!

Aw! technology at it's best!

I hope the prices keep coming down, and technology comes up with ways to do things we have never thought of!

I am surprised that the company Google has not paid the Star Trek franchise to reedit the actors words.

"Computer google me the Klingon Empire"!!

LOL!

This thread has reached its Smiles a Lot quota for da day. Tanks.

PMA, I am really interested, can you take a same shot at night and posted us for a comparison, it's a very good sharing.


thanks, dove

Hi Rory,

is that possible to post us a same shot at night?



thanks, dove