I'm in the UK and would like to monitor frontage of house day and night, approx 30 feet from house and upto 40 foot max across, want to mount the camera up under eaves of house, just run power into loft. I would prefer to use a wired camera linked to a wireless transmitter... the Mrs is sick of cables everywhere !!!

Basically can anyone recommend a sensibly priced solution please, I looking to record the images on a PC, so also would like some pointers on video capture and associated software.

Have been looking at various options and am now confused, there is a street light about 50 foot away.

Thanks in advance.

read old posts on this forum to get a feel for the equpiment and install tips. Wireless shoudl be your last resort. Properly installed cables...you can't see them so your Wife may need a professional install?

doubly co-signed

If you are taking the camera cables straight into the loft from eaves mounted cameras most of your cabling will be in the attic.
Why don't you consider a low end 4 camera dvr situated in the attic or maybe a cupboard that goes up to the ceiling, many houses have this.
You could then install a modulator to distibute the picture to your existing TVs over the existing aerial system.
Result no new cabling in the house.
I understand that this may not be exactly suitable in your circumstances but as long as you don't want to review the dvr every day its an easy solution.
Don't go for cameras with nuilt in I.R lights as spiders can make them usless in the night.

i disagree with the spider comment. ir and non-ir camera's are all prone to the spider, bird, and all sorts of other "cleaning" issues. What you need to plan is a good cleaning capabitity for yourself when you install the camera's. ie. putting a camera on a 50 foot pole provides a great view but is a pain to clean with a spider spins it's web. I always try to place the camera's where they can be cleaned with a 7ft. ladder. anything higher is going to cause you heartache.

Many thanks for the advice to read to the older posts, I had already had a quick look... most informative, also what started to get me thinking more about what I was going to do.

I was looking at http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/GV250.htm and http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/waterproof_ir_camera.htm...

But now confused... conflicting info about low light and IR camera... aaahhhh. Which would be best for me... cheap and simple but useable please.

Must admit I hadn't considered periodic cleaning of the lens etc... thanks for the heads up. Not keen on ladders etc. either... but I can probably manage a wee bit of cleaning...

Cheers for any and all help

The problem with the cameras with the built in I.R. lights is that the slightest spiders web (that is invisible in the day) reflects the I,R back & you get a white out.
The image is still perfect in the day light.

If you have seperate I.R lights then the spiders web on the front of the light does not have any effect.

RF Concepts is a good company to deal with.

Thanks for the info re cameras with IR built in, scratch that idea... now to find a suitable camera and separate IR device....

Has anyone got any recommendations of stuff available in uk, please ?

I don't know what's available in the UK, but you have lots of options for cameras. Probably for your purposes simple bullet cameras will do. If B&W cameras will do, you have lots of choices. However, if you want to use IR illuminators with color cameras, you'll have to be very careful to chose a camera *without* an IR filter. I even have one B&W board camera that must have an IR filter because it can't see IR-illuminated areas. You might also consider going on Ebay and checking out some used B&W cameras. I've seen a number of people in the UK selling them there. I've had very good luck with the surplus CCTV gear I've bought on Ebay.

As for illuminators, your choices are either LED-based or halogen-based. If the area you need to illuminate is no more than 40 feet, you can probably get away with LED illuminators, which are less expensive and draw less power. Lot's of brand choices also. If you need to illuminate further, you'll probably need to step up to a halogen-based unit. Here in the states these units start at around $200 (e.g., a Vitek VT-IR1-110). Rory will tell you that Extreme illuminators are the best, but they're also very expensive and are probably overkill for most residential uses. For example, I have a 30-deg UF500 I've been playing with. It's great for illuminating an area about 90 feet away, but way overkill for anything closer. I just bought a few Vitek VT-IR1-110 illuminators for more medium-range use. I'll be experimenting with these units this week/weekend and will report the results.

Yep, Extreme IS expensive, though after using several other OEM IR Spot Lights, I only use the Extreme now, or nothing .. :-)

In the UK though, it would be Derwent, they make the IR for Extreme, they are all one company now actually.

http://www.derwentcctv.com/home.asp

They also have smaller IR LEDs and Bulbs also, such as the UF100, EX12, EX26LED. They are also well known for their Integrated IR Cameras (which come with seperate LED/Camera Design), as well as vandal proof domes, exlposion proof cameras, balistic cameras, and underwater cameras.

Rory

Yes, I was considering a couple UF100 units, but when you add the cost of the power supply and replacement bulbs, they aren't as cost-effective as the Vitek, which you can just plug into the wall and uses standard bulbs.

Caveat: I haven't yet actually seen the results of the Viteks, so can't report on the results.

They are similar to the COP USA OEM ones I used before .... they generally work to maybe 40', spot, at least the 12V and 24VAC ones..

These are halogen units -- similar in design to the UF100/500s.

ok, I was looking at the smaller units, Yep for sure let us know how they are :-)

this is the one I used from COP,
http://www2.cop-usa.com/ebproductdetail.asp?id=332

I think it is a Hallogen Bulb also, as it has no LEDs..

Rory

Just waiting for dark 8) But it's also raining :(

Yes, that's the stuff.. :(

My first impression on the Vitek is: underwhelmed. I expected much more punch. The strength is a bit better than the WizKid WZ12L units, which are about $50 less, but that's about it. I have to play around more with locations, so nothing conclusive yet.

[quote="rory"]heres another for the books .. :-) ma jeep ..

Wa'happen to your bumper/tail light?

someone mashed it .. never got paid either ..changed the $300 light though!!

So what's the decal say on the rear window? With the lighting, I can't tell.. 8)

But, seriously.. I'm loving my UF500 more and more!

BahamasSecurity.com ... darn I got to take that off, anyway probably selling it as the loan is killing me ...got to get a cheap jap diesel ..2001 and I still owe $27K!! Its got plenty of punch and power though, I kind of suped it up :-) Go through brakes and tires every few months ...!

*Squint* :?

yeah,. well that is Over the internet, and in near pitch dark .. and the lettering is grey same as the jeep .. :-)

I think everyone'll be impressed by my extreme UF500 / Samsung 721 shots. If I can capture them to post here (hint, hint..),

What IR unit did you use on '3 Pool'?

That's the Extreme EX82 Dual Camera, 150' IR, though they all claim 150', Extreme Does say its only 150' indoors, and 75' Outdoors, but im getting at least 90' there outdoors as thats the distance from the camera to the Pool House, i put the alarm beams in so thats how i know :-) Reason Im getting more IR there than the others is Placement of the camera pretty low down, and the reflection from the surrounding walls. Notice the difference from that, and the Beach camera, which are the Same, EX82. The Beach one is all wide open with no reflection besides the far beach wall which is over 100' away.

They have a 250' version of this camera now .. more $$$ though .. they both have 1 color camera and 1 BW camera, a Photo Cell, and a seperate collection of LEDs array which can be changed when needed, though they claim up to 10 years on them ..Id propbably go more the 5 year way on that ..havent gone yet though. They also have built in fan and surge protection, and full settings.

Rory

Well I took the plunge and ordered a "21CWSHRX Colour Bullet PAL" from www.rfconcepts.co.uk ... going to see if I can get away without an IR source..

Took a bit of a risk and ordered a 4 Channel PC DVR card from ebay for under a tenner... nothing ventured nothing gained....

If the card is no good, then I will go with a Geo card.

Many thanks for all the advice :D

You will find suitable cameras & I.R lighting on RF Concepts site at good prices.
You can phone them & ask for advice, tell them I recommended you.
They really are good people to deal with.

that looks alot like the Provideo Exview Bullet ive used, High Resolution, at least the specs are the same, and same size by the looks. If so, as we know they are all OEM cameras anyway, Provideo I mean, then it is a good little camera. It still requires some light and wont be as low light as a BW though it is very impressive. Fact it has an IR Cut filter makes it seem like the same one.

Post some clips if you get a chance :-)

Rory

Rory

Thanks for the images, I just hope it comes close to what you posted.... wish I had the weather you do to match too :wink:

Once installed I will post some images... hopefully it will arrive before weekend and I can get tools etc. out....

I forgot to ask... should I require an IR source, do you good people think that the camera I opted for would function with the more covert type of IR ie > 840 ?

Cheers in advance

If the IR Cut Filter is removed at night, then yes it will work for 840nm, normally. You have to check though to make sure it has an auto removable IR cut Filter, or whether it stays on all the time (as with the one I have), or, if the one you ordered doesnt have one at all.

----------------------------------------
Purpose of IR Filter in Color Cameras

An IR filter – or IR cut filter - is a color filter blocking the infrared light. There are several good reasons for using an IR-cut filter. Using a color camera to achieve realistic colors in white light requires an IR-cut filter. The color spectrum seen by the human eye is quite limited compared to the spectrum seen by a CCD camera. Especially, in the near infrared region of the spectrum the difference in sensitivity is significant. This is important to know since many light sources, including the sun, emit infrared light. A CCD color camera in daylight without an IR-cut filter will therefore see a significant amount of infrared light resulting in strange colors. Another reason for using an IR-cut filter is the limited color correction for many lenses. It is difficult to design imaging optics covering both the visible spectrum and the near infrared spectrum at the same time. Therefore, many lenses have different depth of focus for the visible and the infrared spectrum. Anyway, the IR-cut filter cuts away a significant amount of the overall collected light and thereby affects the sensitivity in a negative way. In general, color cameras are one factor less sensitive compared to monochrome (depending on the CCD chip). This is primarily due to the IR-cut filter.

Info courtesy of Jai Camera Solutions
----------------------------------------

An IR cut filter basically, when it is on, such as in the day, you will get great color images. An auto removable IR cut Filter, means its on in the day and off at night, for IR pick up. If the IR cut filter is fixed, then it will not recognise IR.

Rory

Just had a quick look at the pdf file on-line relating to the camera I ordered, it says "Infra-red sensitive without loosing the true coloration at day light"

So from this and Rory's most informative post, I should be okay.....

Just want to say thanks to you guys for all the information, probably saved me from making a mistake... :shock:

Cheers :D

Sounds like a very good start, for your first camera. One other feature to consider for an outdoor camera is an auto-iris lens. With an AI lens, you'll get better images as the light shifts throughout the day.

not bad of a picture rory

Well I did a temp lash up to test the camera, cracking picture in daylight... though the picture at night is awful :cry: seems all black and blue... mustn't be enough light... claims to work 0.1 lux :?:

Just flexed the plastic again and ordered the IR70 from here http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/ir_lights.htm hopefully this should solve the problem.

Next job... installing that cheap card in PC and trying that.... still it will keep me out of mischief for awhile :D

Cheers and thanks

As promised, an early evening shot... installed it today, got to wait now for IR source to arrive..

Seems to works okay anyway.

Thanks for all the advice :D

Hey Basil,

Looks like somebodys parked their red car on your driveway :lol:

I noticed you've ordered up a relatively narrow beam IR illuminator, and given that you appear to have a fairly wide ish lens on the camera, you may have problems lighting as much as you want. Maybe if you give it a go then post back with your results; if you need to fiddle with the lighting, we may be able to come up with some suggestions.

Interesting to see how the focus drops off towards the edge of the picture. If the camera manufacturer had fitted a good quality lens, you'd probably have seen quite an improvement overall, but then of course, the price would probably have shot up :wink:

Hi Cooperman

I've tried to 'cover' the frontage on the cheap.. as there has been a few odd goings on. The camera came with a 4.3 lens, I changed this to a 2.9.. I suppose the lens isn't brilliant... though it was only a tenner.

You've now got me a little concerned over the IR illuminator... what should I have been looking at ?

There is a street light over the road which at night illuminates just the back of the black car... and there is sensor light which goes on if something enters the driveway... just leaving a real black spot around the front of the black car.

I was hoping that the beam might spread across maybe 70 deg and with a fair wind reach maybe 8 metres... but this is probably just a wild hope based on sales blurb I've read.

Any suggestions please ?

Oh and yes... damn cheeky parking that red thing there :shock:

"odd goings on" Basil, how could such a thing be possible? :shock:

I suppose I should have spotted the clue to the lens being an ultra wide - that's why the camera casing is showing in the upper corners of the picture.

On the very odd occasions I've used 2.9mm barrel lenses in the past, I've actually found them to be surprisingly good, but I'm guessing the £ 10 jobby is possibly not a terribly good pedigree, which is why the resolution is dropping off quite dramatically towards the edges.

If the IR illuminator is used to 'spot illuminate' the shadow area, you may actually find that the results are quite acceptable for your purpose. The chances are you may have something of a 'hotspot' in the picture, but you won't know that for sure until you test it.

One thing you could try is to get hold of a basic diffuser, perhaps a small piece of frosted glass from a local merchant (temporarily tape it in place over the front of the IR using electrical tape), and see what kind of effect you get locating the illuminator under the porch (bottom left of picture) pointing towards the back of the red car. You've got reflective gravel and plenty of foliage which will lighten up nicely - even the car may change noticeably. This test is purely to give you a feel for what will happen if you spread the IR light; it's not intended as the permanent solution.

Incidentally, with LED illuminators, I find it's often worth checking that all the diodes are functioning correctly, so I will generally point the camera 'off axis' towards the lamp, and you can then see if any of the diodes are dead.

Oh and by the way, if you see a huge white cat running across the road ... it's probably a fox!

ha haha ha ,, you guys are too much .. throw in an Extreme UF600 and that fox will be crisp!! LOL

Yeah Ive had the same with 2.5mm fixed lenses before, 2.9mm isnt as bad. Focusing the 2.5 is a pain.

Help :?

I've posted a night view of the camera I got... it is supposed to be a low-light EXVIEW...

Maybe stupidly I thought that in low light situations it would switch to B/W and IR sensitive mode... according to the spec it is IR sensitive...

Now the issue is that today an IR illuminator arrived from RFconcepts.co.uk and I've rigged to point to the back of both cars.. see colour earlier in thread...

Forgive the pun, but can someone shed some light on why the image below is so poor ?

Please... I really need a working solution for night time.



I forgot to mention it doesn't look like the camera is switching to B/W..

Any and all help would be appreciated... 8)

I have a low-light ProVideo HEAT bullet that's great for low-light situations, but totally useless with IR. Looks like you might have a similar type of camera. If the seller mislead you on the specs, I'd return the camera and get a true day/night, or just go with B&W.

Their Specs do say Infrared Sensitive, as an OPTION, at least thats what I thought they meant. The camera I posted has no IR as it has a permanent IR Filter to block the IR. It does switch to Monochrome though, for a little more sensivity. Actually it just removes the Chroma that is used to produce Color, but the IR Cut Filter is permanent.

Check with them, if they have the same bullet, but with an IR option.

Also, what IR Spectrum is the IR LED? (nm)

If you point the Infrared at the camera, do you see the light?

Rory

the ir the camera the lower the reflect.....sorry. i noticed that you mounted that camera way up on the peak of the house. I've made that mistake. Seems that ir needs to reflect and if you are 30ft up and 40 ft. out you won't get much reflect on anything. i think the camera specs say 30ft.? and you are asking for 60 plus ft. specs on ir are always inflated.

i always recommend mounting a ir camera as low as feasible because of the above. and any camera as low as possible so "we" can clean it, work it, play with it.

I have 2 of the 7706DNV's and they work pretty darn good. I did have to play with the "red" video adjustment (lowered it) to get the camera to stop sparkling at night. I guess I was overdriving it a bit? And, I did send in a video to ProVideo and I am awaiting an answer on it as I think the color adjustments should have zero effect at night anyway, right? Can you PM me me your thoughts on the 7706? Great camera, but, like all other camera's, a few weird things in setting them up. thanks.

I havent used it, but the specs are the best camera Provideo has.

It claims a machanical IR cut Filter, so your Day images are great?

When you say red, was this when it was in BW mode, with other color cameras on the same system, or just the one camera byitself? Also what DVR were you using?

For real though, IR cameras need to be mounted low as possible to reflect or you wont see much. If you had a UF500 you could get away with it being higher up, but then .. the cost, and 30-40 feet is still very high and hard to get at to clean it, which can be needed at least once a week, depeding on weather.

Rory

Hi
Why don't you contact the seller by phone & find out if they have tested the camera that they sent you with I.R.
I have had some dealings with this company & they are very helpful.
Ask to speak to Roy or Billy.

was in b/w mode, other cameras on the system. it works fine after I adjust the red video......i back it off until the video produced is clean. the day picture is fine, but, i'm pretty sure i should not have to do this adjustment "at night"? my cheaper camera's require no adjustments, but, they are not the low light special either.

on the cleaning issue. do you find that domes require less maintenance, from a spider web & dirt perspective? i've fouind they are because of the curved globe that makes it hard for a spider to weave and dirt can't collect as easy.

thanks,

Well I've had a little email correspondence with Roy and it appears that the camera I bought is as stated in the PDF is IR sensitive as an option, and rfconcepts only order as a special when they have an order for a large number. Got to say I am hopeful for an outcome, but they way they respond to emails etc. I am becoming both doubtful and despondent.

The advice from rfconcepts was to either return the IR illuminator I bought from them, and buy a BW camera.. So it looks like I will have spend some more money.

I have emailed them numerous times but only had 3 replies, last of which was 6 days ago, at present if I decide to spend anymore it is unlikely to be with rfconcepts.

Word of warning to people, be careful when you order something and do not believe all that you read, as this camera stated it was night and day and I don't mean the IR optional bit either. :(

Hey Basil,

The camera has to do what it says "on the tin"; if it's not "fit for purpose" and you have been mislead either verbally or by advertised claims, you have a right to demand a refund.

If they get funny about sorting your problem or refunding, you could always mention 'trading standards" and see what happens!

One other point: Any color day/night camera with those cheesy little built-in IR LEDs will work with your illuminator. If you want color, you can always go with one of those. The built-in LEDs probably won't be of any use at that distance, but at least the camera will work with your illuminator.

Hey, you should also need to consider the fact that you might just need a better camera, some examples are the:

Toshiba Ik-6400A ( I use this ALOT, and it's a great day/night camera)

Samsung SND-500

Samsung SND-510

Samsung SHC-721

Toshiba IK64D?

Some have IR-CUT filter, other's don't. But in any case, see if you could just get a full refund for the whole kit and look into these models.

Well I've had a response from rfconcepts, I must say, I take it all back they have come up trumps.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them enough now, so if you are in europe, try www.rfconcepts.co.uk but, please take some of the manufacturers claims with a pinch of salt, if you are unsure check with rfconcepts before ordering, learn from my error.

They have resolved my problem to my total satisfaction, a big thank you to Roy at rfconcepts. :D

please post the solutions that you used to resolve this so others can learn. thanks.

Once I finish installation and testing, I will post a new night view and explain the hows and wheres.

Once again thank you to all the people on the forum, I've learned a lot for me in short space of time... Yeah I know sod all in the grand scheme of things :)

Okay, I've done the install today... removed the video sender from the colour camera, it is now hard wired as well.

What I now have is far from discreet, although I suspect it should act as a deterrent...

I've installed a second camera with 8 IR leds and an additional IR with 49 leds, this pointing at the bit that looked really dark on the original image posted from the colour bullet.

The second camera is 1/3" B/W ... http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/waterproof_camera.htm I've mounted this slighty lower than the original, following advice about IR's and reflections.

Power for all the devices comes from transformers located in the loft, I extended the 12v power leads using a microphone cable as it was 2 core and shielded with a rubberised outer... thought this might survive the elements a bit better. The 2 cameras feed a UCC4A board bought from ebay for a tenner ($14 ish). Am looking to use the SupervisionCam software in future..

Have both camera set to record on movement, but at different times of the day... the B/W is too sensitive in normal daylight, so I only record from the colour at these times.

If anyone is interested I will post a night time image from the B/W camera..

Yes, please post a night image.

How's this ???

Looks like it worked out very well. Consider moving the IR illuminator a bit more to the right.

looks good, Did you really need the LED? Maybe could have got away with the Exview version of that bullet.

Anyways, have you tried pointing the LED up more? How far do the beams go?

Did a test with the bits a few nights ago, and the IR beam goes a fair distance in excess of 60 feet....

I kept the IR as, lets just say in the end I got the B/W camera gratis..

If I did it all again.. let's just say I would do things differently, thanks to knowledge I now have, thanks guys :D

Yeah, doesnt look too dark to the left of the IR ...the camera you have is like mine, 0.1 lux, and the exview would be 0.01 lux, or at least it would see much more in the low light. If its pitch dark there then you would definately need the IR, the IR LEDs on the cameras themselves are no use outdoors.

Anyway, looks good .. :-)

Rory