I just got the Nuvico DV3 and so far so good.. it seems to be pretty good.
I have it set to 720x480 motion recording
I have a few cameras that I believe may be my problem...

Their specs are here:
[edit by mod - store link removed - note. OEM 6-15mm color IR bullet camera]

Attached is an image I captured from that camera.
You can't identify the person in my driveway with it.
That's at about 25ft from the camera.

Is that a bad camera or what would cause such distortion?
What camera that would at least allow me to identify people that won't cost me $1000+ per camera?

-Chris

In my opinion, and only my opinion....

This is what that camera should look like.

I think that is giving you enough "evidence" for facial recognition.

Is that you in the video shot???

Facial recognition needs to have the face closer to 25% of the screen shot.

I do not know what percentage his/your face covers in that screen, but it is pretty small. How many pixals do you think represent his/your face?

Yes, you are right, not that much.

Are you looking for megapixal style of resolution?

Are you sure the artifacts are not coming from the DVR?

Can you give us a picture straight from the camera without going through the DVR?

The image straight from the camera is the same.
The problem is... there's no way to have a face cover 25% of the screen and still cover the driveway at all.

But as it stands now, there's no point covering most of the driveway if the image is so distorted.

So... my question is this... are there any cameras that won't cost $1000+ that would do better?

All of my customers are budget customers.

I would not know what a quality camera was if it was staring me in the face! LOL!

With facial recognition I use two cameras, one for the "everything" view, and the other for the "close up".

I am still curious if that is you in the shot??

I like how that camera starts at 6mm, and that you do not have distance distortion.

How does it look when you plug the Camera into a CRT TV or CCTV CRT Monitor? Remember the best quality will be on a CRT composite device. LCDs will distort as it is composite to VGA converted.

Anyway, did you focus it or just installed as is?
Disable DSS and any other strange features.
Did you change any settings?

Its either a setting on the camera that can be changed, out of focus/iris setting, or a bad camera (which is common these days).

If you have another camera try that one and see how it is.
If they are all the same cameras and all like that, then its probably a setting. In the future though look for a camera that doesnt have DSS as those seem to be more problematic with all the additional OSD functions they throw into them. (IMO)

If you want a wide shot and facial recognsion then you may want to look at megapixel IP cameras, would need to revamp the DVR side though.

@ Scorpion, could look alot better. Though even with a recent GE box camera i had similar distortion, it would not focus properly either - bad camera, exact problem, no idea - bought new camera and chucked that in the garbage. :(

Turn off the wide screen. The aspect ratio of the picture is wrong, causing the subject to look short and fat. Note the sample image is 16:9 when it should be 4:3.

Rory, I agree that the shot could be better.

Since I am not at his location, then it is only a guessing game for me to determine why the quality is not up to par as I am not familiar with that cam.

As for facial recognition I think the camera has done it "daytime" job.

I could go to a police line up, and pick him out of the line with no problem.

Yes... it's me in the pic...purty aint I? lol j/k
At the point I went outside it was just to get a pic to post here and I wasn't too happy because I had already seen one that looked just as bad...

The picture straight to a tv isn't any better that I can tell.

No, I'm not looking for megapixel quality really I just want it to be good enough that you can make out a face if you need to... not so blurry it looks like where a tv show blurred out a face they didn't want you to see.

It looks the same going straight to a CRT TV.

I have not touched the focus at all.. just left it as is.
I don't see any DSS or any of that on this DVR (Nuvico DV3-8000 series)

The cameras all have focus/zoom settings on them but like I said I haven't changed any of it.

I have 8 cameras... 6 of the same and 2 different.. they all look like crap to me.
I can return them so that's not a problem but I don't know.. is that just the best you can do without megapixel or IP cameras?
I don't really have to funds to go that route so I'm hoping there's another way with the dvr I already have.

Where would this be done on a Nuvico DV3 series dvr? I don't see anything about it in the menus.

It should have an OSD that allows changing the camera settings, the camera itself not the DVR.

Ive used many cameras in the past and the images vary, some have been great, some not so. Lately alot of the cameras have been coming out with less than adequate quality IMO. I think they are just all jumping on the bandwagon with OSD, DSS, etc, and trying to add as many messed up features they can add, most of which cause other standard features to back fire. I dont know that camera, but check for the OSD, 4 buttons on the camera (maybe 1 in the center of those to bring up the OSD menu), or take a look at the manual on how to use that. It should have an OSD which lets you disable DSS, and other non standard features, OR enable something that may be disabled.

I would try the settings on the camera first, also check that it is focused, as its not always.

MegaPixel would be nice, but if you are looking for decent non Megapixel quality cant beat Wide Dynamic Box cameras from a brand like Panasonic, and using separate IR such as from Extreme CCTV.

BTW i would be able to use that guys face as evidence down here, even though slightly blurred.

Just remember you are dealing with Bullet cameras, these are basically cheaply made OEM products. I know they arent really cheap, to me and probably you also, but compared to say Panasonic and Extreme CCTV, they are alot cheaper than those type of cameras.

Although one bullet camera came bad in a couple I ordered, I did like CNB's True Day Night bullet, it had little to no settings so was more plug and play, and how Bullet cameras should be IMO, and how they USED to be. CNB is typically cheaper than Nuvico and others as CNB is the actual manufacturer, something like KT&C.

Here is a recent thread that might interest you.
http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12063

And a whole bunch here:
http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6122

Darned if I know but the picture is stretched horizontally. Does it look that way on your DVR's monitor? Maybe you have to run your computer on a standard resolution like 1280x1024 or 1024x768.

I looks the same on the dvr monitor.
My pc screen IS set to 1024x768

I'll look tomorrow.. I'm pretty sure that camera does have buttons on the back so I'll play with it... The thing that bothers me is that's the best camera I got.. the rest are worse.

Is that a "good" image for an analog camera or can it get way better? I can't afford ip camera (well... can't afford the nvr is the problem)

But... in your opinion can a noticable better image be had with a better analog camera?

Here's what 3 of the worst cameras see... what cameras would do better for each location?

All 3 cameras are the same specs...

Image Sensor: 1/4 SONY CCD Image Sensor
Resolution: 420 TV Lines

CCD Pixel: 510 (H) x 492 (V)

Sensitivity: 0.0 Lux with IR

S/N Ratio: 48dB (AGC Off)

Electronic Shutter Time: 1/60~1/100,000 Sec

Scanning System: 525 Lines, 60 Field/sec

Video Output: 1.0 Vp-p composite video at 75 ohm

Gamma Correction: 0.45

Gain Control: AGC

Operation Temperature: -10 C ~ 50 C

Storage Temperature: -20 C ~ 60 C

View Angle/ Len Size: 70 Degree/ 3.6mm

Power Supply: DC 12V

Construction: Housing: Aluminum

Front Housing: Glass

Dimensions: 2.5" (W) x 5" (L)

Water Resistance: IP 55

IR Distance: 60 ft.

Here's what I have right now on the OSD menu of the camera that showed me in the driveway.


http://www.limitlessenterprises.com/images/driveway-menu.jpg
http://www.limitlessenterprises.com/images/driveway-function.jpg
http://www.limitlessenterprises.com/images/driveway-adjust.jpg

None of the other 7 cameras have OSD menus.
They all (including the driveway camera), have a focus 'screw' on the back that I have not touched at all.

This driveway camera and my front door camera have an additional screw on the back for 'zoom'

Also... just to give you as much to go on as possible... here's a shot from ALL 8 cameras:
http://www.limitlessenterprises.com/images/cameras/

#1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8 are all the same camera with these specs:
Bullet IR Day/night cam
Image Sensor: 1/4 SONY CCD Image Sensor
Resolution: 420 TV Lines
CCD Pixel: 510 (H) x 492 (V)
Sensitivity: 0.0 Lux with IR
S/N Ratio: 48dB (AGC Off)
Electronic Shutter Time: 1/60~1/100,000 Sec
Scanning System: 525 Lines, 60 Field/sec
Video Output: 1.0 Vp-p composite video at 75 ohm
Gamma Correction: 0.45
Gain Control: AGC
-----------------------------------------------------------

#4 is a dome camera at my front door...
It's these specs:
Image Sensor: 1/3 SONY CCD Sensor
Resolution: 480 TV Lines
CCD Pixel: 752 (H) x 582 (V)
Sensitivity: 0.00 Lux with IR on
S/N Ratio: 50dB (AGC Off)
Electronic Shutter Time: 1/50~1/12,000 Sec
Scanning System: 525 Lines
60 Field/sec

Video Output: 1.0 Vp-p composite video at 75 ohm
Gamma Correction: 0.45
Gain Control: AGC

-------------------------------------------------

And the driveway cam... #6 is these specs:
Supports PAL and NTSC TV Systems
1/3 inch CCD image sensor
700g weight
146mm x 82mm dimensions
DC 12V, 550mA power rating
Load Impedance - 75 Ohms
120 foot IR range
BNC video connection
540 lines resolution
36 IR L.E.D infrared
6 to 15 mm vari focal lens
SONY CCD with ADVANCED DSP color camera
Auto Gain Control

Thanks!!

I just want to be able to identify someone if they break in my house (again). I don't feel like I could do that as it stands now so I'm trying to see if I need new cameras then that's what I'll do. The place I got the cameras from that I have now, will allow me to return them for another 30-45 days or so... I just need to know what to replace them with (if there's anything that'd do a better job short of ip/megapixel cameras)

First, try to sharpen the focus on each camera. :)

Working on that today.. I'll post back this evening or in the morning with results.

If those are IR cameras he may not be able to focus them and achieve anything better than what he currently sees. I think the resolution of his cameras is to low for his satisfaction. He should consider a camera like this for IR http://tinyurl.com/3mmklp or maybe http://tinyurl.com/3grbwo if you want a vari-focal camera.


I just simply think these specs are to low for what your expectations are.
Either of the two cameras I posted links to up there would be a better camera for your outdoor Ir application I think.


I think that cameras specs look good so the best thing I could say to this would be placement and adjust the vari-focal that the camera has for a better viewing image.


Also, I seen you said the screen looks the same even on a CRT monitor but a CRT vs an LCD the images will definitely not look exactly the same. LCD TV? Or do you have an actual CRT Monitor possibly sitting around?

Lemme know!
Holla,
John

Straight to a CRT monitor.

'None of the other 7 cameras have OSD menus.
They all (including the driveway camera), have a focus 'screw' on the back' This is why I suggested to sharpen the focus. :D

I was able to get 7 of my 8 cameras to the point I'm happy with it.
My driveway cam will end up being fine, it just needs more fine tuning. It's better now than it was...but still needs some more adjusting.

I'm going to stick where I am for now and upgrade cameras later one at the time.

I have one more question..
I currently have a Nuvico DV3 8-channel dvr...
if I want to add 8 more cameras later, am I better off buying a 16-channel dvr and putting mine on eBay or something or is it simple to just get a 2nd 8-channel?

It just seems like it'd be more of a pain to review images etc from 2 vs 1 dvr.

Let me know what you guys think...

It's strange to see problems with a IR camera with day time shots. How is the camera at night. I have had problems with some IR cameras when they are on the threshold of color going to B/W. With IR cameras you may find some problems with your power supply. They take a higher amp rating. Be sure to check this out and use the correct one. Plus make sure your power supply has good regulation.

In one of those OSD settings it has a setting for sharpness, definitely try to move that all the way up. Not sure what that is even there for, maybe its a digital sharpness enhancer though and it might just mess up the image more.

If its a Varifocal lens, set the Lens to Auto Iris.
Set BLC Off.
Set AGC off - UNLESS the day nght on the camera only works with AGC on, which is the case with many OEM cameras these days, and that truly sucks!

One posting said "if you have a vari focal lens, set it to auto iris".. That's wrong, All vari focal are not auto iris. Many are manuel. If you throw the switch to auto iris and it is not that type. The picture could go blank and if that isn't the case, the AES would not operate and your camera would not have automatic light control. (AES automatic electronic shutter)

I understand that, however if the Bullet camera comes with an Varifocal lens, then it should be Auto Iris. If it isnt, then its the first of its kind as ive never seen or heard of a Day Night Bullet camera with a Manual Iris Varifocal Lens - anything is possible but in this case its highly unlikely. Remember these are not normal interchangeable lenses.

Thank you for clarifying that though :)

I set AGC to off... I'll see what happens tonight when it gets dark.
I turned BLC off and it made my driveway so whitewashed you couldn't see the lines so I turned it back on.

What do the members here do to prevent intruders from finding the DVR and stealing or destroying it? I've been wondering this for a while now, since my DVR has a fan and is easily heard once you're in the same room, plus it has all the cables coming out of it. It's not realistic to stream images to an external website without paying huge monthly fees. I've considered running a cable to a hard drive in a safe bolted to the floor, but my whole house is wood, and nothing could be made all that secure.

For starters, have a burglar alarm that wakes up the entire neighborhood :)
And i have a feeling, at least down here, they will steal it before they destroy it, perhaps mistaking it for a DVD device or PC. :(

Like rory said... have a loud siren or multiple sirens on your alarm...
Once your alarm is going off, hunting down a dvr is the last of their worries...

How did the camera work after you turned AGC off? The biggest problem I see with your camera's is that the majority are 1/4" ccd, but that is not a major problem, you can upgrade to better the next time. With the BLC and the camera looking at your driveway, if you do not have any direct light shining into your lens, you should not need BLC on, you may need to adjust your autoiris settings a little but that you should do closer to dusk.Hope this helps.