WoW ... learned alot from this post..

Thanks a lot.

So the question i have for you guys is then what type of premium cable do you use?

Also what about power, can power be ran to at least 600' from the PDU?

Thanks

Actually, we use CAT-5 with passive baluns for most cameras up to approximately 1000 ft. For longer runs we use passive transmitters and active receivers. When we use RG-59, we usually use West Penn 815 or 25815 for RG-59 and 825 or 25825 for mini coax (the 25xxx is plenum).

For power, you need to know how much power or current your camera needs. If the camera spec lists current draw, multiply it (remember it usually is in mA, which is 1/1000 amp, so 250mA = .25A) times the voltage to get power and plug that and the distance into the calculator here:

http://www.vihon.com/Vihon_Calculators/Vihon_Wire_Gage_Calculator/body_vihon_wire_gage_calculator.html Ignore the "VAC" next to "Source Voltage Amplitude ", it works equally well for VDC.

Most cameras can tolerate a 10% Allowable Cable Voltage Loss. Many 24VAC cameras can tolerate up to 20%, but that is pushing it. A few 12VDC cameras only allow 5%. Also keep in mind that most 24VAC power supplies actually put out 27-28 volts and some can be adjusted to 29 volts. Some 12VDC power supplies can also be adjusted higher to compensate for longer cable runs but you are best off using 12.0VDC and 24.0VAC in any calculations to allow a bit of headroom.

My friend survtech is using "quotes" from some company's perception what the limitations of this cable runs are or should be. I do not want to comment the sources that my friend is using for his assessment, rather a reality check and facts, but if he insists... Are you suggesting that my assessment is outside of the industry standard and I am misleading this post or may be I do not know what I am stating here? survtech, I thought that you know me better than that...

We install RG59, RG6, CAT5e and various other cables daily. I know that my experience always provided me with much better options than any biased quotes from any company in the past or presently. I do not understand you intentions in agreeing with these quotes, but that is for you to evaluate. Fact remains - your quotes are inaccurate.

Lets look at why, lets say Pelco as an example, will be saying this nonsense and I always question why they say it and their expectations for their audience to follow blind folded - it is called maximizing their returns and here is why... If you believe that your maximum RG59 cable length, lets say using good quality cable with 20 gage center conductor, is 750' and obviously you will need additional hardware to accommodate longer than 750' distance cables runs. This could entail purchasing video amplifiers, video stabilizers, etc. to "insure" that you do not loose video signal quality, thus it is a necessity... Well, my friend, I beg to differ very strongly against this Pelco assessment, as it is not based on facts, rather their biased opinion, which are also based on their scrupulous intentions to screw anyone they can.

I can challenge each and every one of your quotes from your sources. But you know, as you have done enough installs at your facilities and probably abroad, that what you are commenting and what you actually had seen are two different results. You want me to get real technical, I can and really prove that any of those quotes are bogus and they are very well designed to undermine the reality and maximize their respective hidden agendas. And that my friend is called creating confusion in the market so that new comers in the business will spend more than necessary to accommodate installation.

I should not be stating anymore than comments above. I firmly believe that it is not a good practice for a technical guru like yourself can fall into this type of trap and being biased with such nonsense.

Sorry my friend, at this time, I disagree with you 100%!

Well my friend, I know the tests that you conducted about this topic and I did not dispute your finding then as a professional courtesy, but I will now.

We are exclusively using passive baluns from VU. I know that your test results has shown than this passive balun was not conforming to your requirements, but I have test results that actually came from the manufacturer that can challenge your findings, but I chose at that time not to bring forward. Your test results were not considering the major fact of the quality of the cable used, rather analysis of the loss of video signal using passive baluns. Did you actually try the same exact tests using the same exact passive baluns with different manufacturer CAT5e cables? I know that you did not, as you used the same cable and with different baluns for your tests.

All our CAT5e cables come from ADC (Advanced Digital Cable), which we also use exclusively, and passive baluns from VU... and comfortably run 1,500' straight runs without any loss of video quality. Any cable lengths higher than 1,500', we use active baluns from various manufacturers. This is a fact and we use it daily and without any problems!

West Penn was our exclusive supplier for over 20 years and guess what, when they dropped the quality of the cable on both RG59 and CAT5e and not including the fact that they raised the pricing tremendously, we had no choice to find another manufacturer and not a supplier... ADC produces excellent quality cable and the produce per order. When we go through over 250,000' of cable usage per month and with excellent results, they leave West Penn or similar companies in the dust because they do not short change on materials. They may not be as large as West Penn, but they make much better cable than most of such companies in the market.

The above comments are based on facts and not on assessments on other company's quotes!

Some cameras these days actually have amplification settings built in and they measure the impedance on the run and auto adjust...I still use Coax...but perhaps I am old fashioned, I also do not like the skew affect.

If I havea long run I simply use a camera with built in amplification and ...no worries on Coax

Very correct... Actually some manufacturers use terminology called AGC (Automatic Gain Control).

What is new and exciting happening in down_under? :D Are you still working with Bosch?

What would be the model number for such cameras please
Thanks

So you are saying that the over 40% losses of sync, luminance and composite video levels and over 90% loss of color burst levels have no impact on the video? By what means of measurement? And the issue then was not to test different cable manufacturers' cables but to compare different manufacturers' baluns. That test still holds since it showed there was effectively no difference between the passive baluns. I don't understand why you took our tests as an indictment of the Video Baluns Unlimited baluns since I showed that they performed equally to baluns which sell for far more.


Facts? They are based on your opinions only. Whether you have a problem with West Penn or not, the industry in general recommends against the use of RG-59 for runs longer than 750 ft. without resorting to "cable compensation". And that assumes the use of 20 gauge RG-59. If you want to run longer lengths, that is your perrogative.

My guess is that for many applications, your customers would not notice any defect in the video at that length since they would not have any basis for comparison. The same goes for running 1,500 ft. of twisted-pair using passive-passive baluns. I can tell you that we can certainly tell the difference between the picture quality at 1,000 ft. and at 1,500 ft. using exactly the same baluns, cable, cameras and monitors. If you can't, perhaps you need better measuring or monitoring equipment..

By the way, a few sources that specify both 750 ft. and 1000 ft. limitations on RG-59 also state that the 750 ft. limit applies to color and the 1000 ft. limit to monochrome cameras. That makes a lot of sense because the 3.58MHz color burst would have the greatest losses attributable to cable capacitance versus the lower frequency sync and composite signals, which would be more affected by DC resistance.

You know, I would have continued the discussion but your statement:



tells me that I would just be wasting my time. Adios!

survtech, sounds like you are upset and I sure hope not :cry:

Constructive discussions are always a good practice, regardless if we agree or disagree on selected topic.

I guess you are backing off... and I thought we are having a great time, and if you insist, then adios too :lol:

For your reference, any of the XF full body cameras from Bosch can use cable compensation to enhance the length of your run, by the time you consider switching to NVT and baluns or perhaps a distribution amplifier, it works out about the same to upgrade to an XF cam for example I think you can then run about 600 Meters on RG59, which is more than I usually need.

No I dont work for Bosch anymore....haven't for some time actually