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Swann vs Q-See DVR System from Costco?

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kitaudio - 14 Aug 2008, 03:45 pm
Hi Guys,
I have a $1,000 budget for a small ice cream shop. I can do the installation since I have experience with 12 volts and computers. Which do you think is a better choice for me?


From Costco . com

8 Ch Swann
9 Ch Q-See
(sorry, can't post link because I just joined)

Both have internet remote viewing.

1. Which is a better system? Swann or Q-See
2. Is there a better solution with a $1k budget?

Thank Ahead.
jpatz18 - 18 Aug 2008, 11:45 am
I would not buy those they are CRAP!!! Even for 1k. Picture are grainy and bad. Google Them.. I would not recommended for anyone.
kitaudio - 22 Aug 2008, 02:48 pm
Is that because the camera is of poor quality? Do you recommend a different setup for the same budget?
jpatz18 - 24 Aug 2008, 01:29 am
Depends how many cameras do you want. If its for a ice cream shop i wouldget some digital sensormatic box type camera and a dvr probably cost about 700- with like 6 camera and a dvr. Used camera of course.

I would never buy them from costco SAMS BJ there all crap and grainy.
Wachhund - 24 Aug 2008, 11:35 pm
The discounted pricing will bite you in the end. Save up and get a decent system. You'll need to id faces. Those cheap cameras are too grainy. Get a good dvr like an IC Realtime Max-4 or something like that and add your cameras as you go. It may cost almost twice as much mut in the end you'll reap the benefits.
TallDoode - 03 Sep 2008, 05:41 pm
I don't know that I agree. No one asked what he was going to monitor, when, lighting, 24/7 or just during business hours etc.

Many times the threat of video surveillance is enough and having cameras mounted and visible helps.

I have two cameras doing home monitoring. One is a Lorex the other is a Q-See. I like the picture better on the Q-See at night, but the Lorex seems to be better during the day. Swann makes good cameras and the Costco bundles for daylight hours are decent and you can recognize faces in them just fine. At night, due to the limited IR, they are not as good and you only get a few feet of view. One of the issues with larger IR cameras (like my Q-See that "sees" 80 feet in 100% darkness) is that if someone gets within 10 feet of it, the IR is so "bright" they look like a ghost. That is a problem I am trying to address right now. I want to see who is breaking into our cars and a big, white blur doesnt help the police much :-)

My recommendation is to look around and see what you can put together for your budget but the Q-See from Costco is a decent monitoring system for a small business that is well lighted and not likely to be robbed after hours when the lights are off (since cash is typically removed every night). Plus, the 8 cameras looking down on someone think twice about robbing you (assuming that is what you want them for).

My .02.

dave
501 - 04 Sep 2008, 02:54 am
It can all be summed up in one simple sentence we have all heard, "You get what you pay for". I have had to replace several of those systems at small retail businesses because the quality was so poor. The live vew can look ok but check the playback, you will be dissappointed.
oneirishpollack - 05 Sep 2008, 02:34 pm
If your going to suggest the picture is all "grainy" and "crappy" can you suggest why?

The Q-SEE offers the following:

QD28194 Weatherproof Sony Sensor Camera Features:

Image sensor: ¼” Sony CCD color image sensor
Signal: NTSC
Horizontal resolution: 420 TV lines
Built-in lens: 8 x 6 mm / 8 x 3.6mm
30 ft. night vision
12 Infrared LEDs
Infrared wavelength: 850 nm
Lighting distance: 10 m
Power supply: DC 12 V
Operating temperature: -20°C to 50°C (-4°F to 122°F)

The Swann:

8 Swann MaxiBrite indoor/outdoor 1/4” Sharp SuperHAD sensor CCD cameras
30 infra-red LEDs for powerful night vision up to 66ft (20m)
Sturdy anti-corrosive & weather resistant casing for use outdoors or indoors
Add 8 extra cameras for complete 16 channel surveillance
Includes proper RG-59 twin shielded cable (with integrated power)
CollinR - 05 Sep 2008, 03:25 pm
QUOTE:
If your going to suggest the picture is all "grainy" and "crappy" can you suggest why?


Because my cost on those cams is under $40 and the DVR about $250 so in either case the bang:buck is poor when you pay more for a brand name like that with a reputation like it has.

and no I will not put my company name on selling that for $800 just because I could.
oneirishpollack - 05 Sep 2008, 03:43 pm
So are you saying it is about cost vs. features, chipsets, or technology? Should I be looking for cameras that cost over a certain amount to determine if they are going to work or not?

Please help me understand this.
CollinR - 05 Sep 2008, 04:06 pm
No it's not exactly about bottom line costs it's like everything else in life, an SVT Mustang and a Fararri may well perform similarly however their costs are much differnt. Also in many ways they do perform differently, in picking up chicks for instance whereas their 1/4 mile time may be the same.

Bang:buck is a difficult deal but thats how I make a living designing systems like this. Feel free to contact me about what I can do however I must admit $1k is on the low side.

This also depends on your goals, if you are tring to figure out if your employees are coming in on time or closing up early you don't need much of a system at all. You already know who they are. If you are more concerned about the general public you need a system will the capability of capuring identification. This is much more difficult with complete strangers. Also if you go the cheapest router to watch your employees you cannot easily do identification whereas a nicer system has no trouble telling you they seem to open a 1/2 late on Sat when you aren't there.

This is all part of system design and really shouldn't be hashed out in a public forum.
BurstElement - 15 Sep 2008, 10:03 am
You have to remember that these systems are designed for a particular price point / purpose... i.e. low cost DIY monitoring.

Of course most of us here are used to installing and using cameras of far higher quality than these and consider them to be "rubbish"... you have to consider that if using a professional installer the labour cost would usually be similar to the price of the hardware... this alone makes it a poor economic choice for an installer or customer of an installer to want this grade of hardware.

You really need to tell us what you are trying to capture and in what sort of lighting situation, however, from experience i think you might be better off with a different / custom system.
If you are trying to protect against customer theft / harassment during business hours you probably don't want / need IR cameras.
Dome cameras are typically 30-40% cheaper than an equivalent IR camera and will look neater if you only require business hours surveillance.

I don't think most ice cream shops would require 8 cameras either... probably 4-6 cameras at most depending on the size of the shop.
PhilSI - 18 Sep 2008, 10:33 am
[quote:3c87c02687="CollinR"]
QUOTE:
If your going to suggest the picture is all "grainy" and "crappy" can you suggest why?


Because my cost on those cams is under $40 and the DVR about $250 so in either case the bang:buck is poor when you pay more for a brand name like that with a reputation like it has.

and no I will not put my company name on selling that for $800 just because I could.


I am new to this forum and while don't know much about this stuff, I am highly familiar with many industries where the "pro guys" trash the stuff you can by at a warehouse club. In many cases this is B%*&S^%$ because these guys don't even look at what they are trashing. They just don't like that they can't be competitive in this segment of the market. This does not mean the product is "crappy"

I also understand cost structure very well, so rather than trash this because you can buy it for a cheap price (which tells me nothing) please explain what is inferior about this product from a specification stand point vs the higher end/more expenisve products you sell?

Swann Day/Night CCD Cameras x 4

· 4 Swann day/night indoor/outdoor 1/4” Sharp SuperHAD sensor CCD cameras

· 30 infra-red LEDs for powerful night vision up to 66ft (20m)

· Sturdy weather resistant casing for use outdoors or indoors

· 50ft (15m) BNC white cables x 4



Thanks,

Phil
RickA - 18 Sep 2008, 10:49 am
Swann Day/Night CCD Cameras x 4

· 4 Swann day/night indoor/outdoor 1/4” Sharp SuperHAD sensor CCD cameras

· 30 infra-red LEDs for powerful night vision up to 66ft (20m)

· Sturdy weather resistant casing for use outdoors or indoors

· 50ft (15m) BNC white cables x 4
#1- 1/4" Sharp CCD to me is junk, the Sony CCD is far better, and a minimum of a 1/3" CCD for better light processing. #2- 20m for the IR is basic halved to 10m, if you read some of the post on this will explain why. #3- weather resistant, no IP rating, this just means that if rained on will not effect the outside of the camera, if it is a downpour, it will leak and short out.
CollinR - 18 Sep 2008, 10:57 am
QUOTE:

Swann Day/Night CCD Cameras x 4

· 4 Swann day/night indoor/outdoor 1/4” Sharp SuperHAD sensor CCD cameras

· 30 infra-red LEDs for powerful night vision up to 66ft (20m)

· Sturdy weather resistant casing for use outdoors or indoors

· 50ft (15m) BNC white cables x 4


#1 it's fake day/night
#2 1/4" CCD has less surface area to gather light on
#3 Sharp doesn't make the SuperHAD?
#4 IR on the camera scream junk potential
#5 lack of specs! No TV lines, no effective pixels no nada, huge red flag
#6 Not even a focal length specified (6mm cause i have pulled enough)
#7 Fixed focal length, this combined with no focal length discribed all but assures a poor outcome.
#8 It's not so bad for $40 but for $150 you can do much better
#9 No light sensitivity numbers even though they would be BS anyway.
#10 I'll question the sturdiness of it's mount, really just so I can have 10 things though.

They only gave me 4 specs! Usually I question the validitiy of the specs but in this case they just didn't provide any.
PhilSI - 18 Sep 2008, 11:23 am
Thanks for the reply, not that I didn't believe you guys, but an answer stating "why something is no good" or "why something else is better" is much more useful and credible than just trashing it because it comes from a warehouse and has an aggressive price.

Thanks

Phil
rory - 18 Sep 2008, 06:11 pm
QUOTE:

4 Swann day/night indoor/outdoor 1/4” Sharp SuperHAD sensor CCD cameras


They are typically NOT day/night cameras. They are sold as such in many cases buyt they are typically just Color cameras with Infrared. The same goes for any brand, not just Swann or Q-See. TRUE Day Night cameras have an automatic removable IR Cut Filter.

Also, Sharp Chips give awful images among other issues.

And SuperHAD is a Sony Trademark, typically only found in Sony Chips.

Without complete specs I wouldnt touch it.

QUOTE:

30 infra-red LEDs for powerful night vision up to 66ft (20m)


Hardly. When dealing with any brand cut that back by at least 1/4 and also that rating would then only be for Indoors (its typical marketing hype), outdoors you can then cut that back even more, and if its a wide area like a yard, with no reflective objects within that distance, then its not going to do a whole lot and thats when you will have that crappy grainy image at night.

QUOTE:

Sturdy weather resistant casing for use outdoors or indoors

So is my $5 watch. :)

QUOTE:

50ft (15m) BNC white cables x 4

These are typically RCA width cables that can easily pick up interference, they are not for professional installs, or even for high res cameras. Its a gamble so professionals wont use that for their clients as it costs money to go back and do it again.

Otherwise, its just a DIY kit, you get what you pay for, they try to keep it simple and cheap, which is what their market is.
Daedalus51 - 21 Sep 2008, 05:58 pm
I'm somewhat of a newbie to this forum. I signed up in March, and it seems the activity has picked up a bit since then. I hope the trend continues.

I started out with a Costco Q-see package for my house a couple years ago. I can't speak for Swann, but from what I've read on specs, reviews, and info from sites like this I doubt there's much difference among any of the bargain-basement import brands.

It's really "cool" to be able to watch what's going on around the house. I know who's outside while I'm surfing the web. I can see who let their dog poop in my yard and didn't clean it up, and I know which neighbor drops trash on the sidewalk as they walk from their car to their house. I've even recorded some taggers and also a felony committed in front of my house, though not enough evidence (license plate) to do any good for the cops.

Honestly, the quality is very poor. The DVR doesn't do all it's supposed to do. The motion sensing is a complete joke at night. The manuals are just terrible attempts at translation. The hard drive gives an error every now and then. Upgrading the firmware can kill the DVR. Customer service is non-existent. The cameras started out crappy and then got worse. I had one mounted where the body (not the lens or sensor) was exposed to the sun, and its image slowly went bad within a year.

What's nice is that these systems are modular. You can replace any component depending on need and budget and see instant benefits. I've upgraded 2 cams to a PTZ dome and a much better D/N cam. Right now I am on the hunt for a better DVR. I'll end up spending a lot more than I set out to spend, but the price/performance quotient in this industry is what it is and, like most, I've had to adjust my expectations to reality. Eventually I'll have replaced the whole system, but at the same time I don't think it was a waste of money. I got my feet wet without breaking the bank and I got a lot, though not all, of the benefits that I was looking for.
lamlamz - 25 Nov 2008, 01:04 pm
Interesting post.
I hope it gets better and thanks to Professionals comments and advice giving us valuable information.
I also recommend to check out the Amazon's user comment. I believe those are amateurs and DIYers, which in general commented Q-See product in many different ways. Some comments also give us some examples of application and their usage experience.
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