l am going to try the wizzkid 46 dome with 2.6mm 6 mm vari lens,any other suggestions based on my bar would be gateful.


pictur looks pretty dark but since this picture was taken,there are 5 x30inch tv screens above the bar that give off a lot of light and also the drop down lights above the bartop is not used,so it is mainly neons and tvs.

forbiddeen access to pic..........but, if dark go B&W high res low light

image is hosted with image shack,it opens when l click on the link!!l will try again,anyway l am going to take more pics at the bar from the approx angle and position of cameras.

heres a better picture,hopefully this shows;


quick question,do l use the url button on the cctv forum and then copy and paste the link(all of it including "url" in the image host link???
if someone can show me exactly how this is done l can get some pictures up and get some suggestions!!

looks pretty dim, if you dont want to spend a fortune, use regular BW, if you can afford it, True Day Night, though from your images the lighting looks to low for it not to go into BW or be pixelesed in color.

i would say to use bosch dinion cameras or very good mono cameras

Just use the [img]picture link[/img]

That is how you have it now, but you also have some [url] which then shows up on the post.

BW cameras for sure. To dim to do color. You won't like the pixelized look of what a color camera would do in that situation. Even if it is a Day/Night camera. A Day/Night would be a waste of money.

rory what about those wizzkid 46 b/domes??l was also consideringbosch dinion xf 1/3 LTC 0385 MONOCHROME or bosch dinion xf LTC 0495 DAY/NITE.

Other considerations NUVICO D/N W/AUTO/MECH CUT FILTERS

The bar is not quite that dark as the picture appears,l will post a few more updated pictures tomorrow or later.

l have at the door a nuvico nvcc-wv 42 ir 16n day nite at the front door looking at the door,l also managed to get a refurbished panasonic 924 with 1/2 inch lens and l have a bosch flexidome xt lcc 1461/20 which has to be replaced (not suitable).

Well they are nice, but you can get away with some cheaper Domes like the WizKid, im installing the WZ30's BW 600TVL for the club here, the WZ46 is only needed if you musy have Varifocal AI and a 360 degree gimble (wall mount), the WZ30's are all you need, think of them as a bullet camera, but in a vandal proof dome, and high res BW.

Take the Day Night cam and place it in the bar on a TV / Monitor and see what it gets .. Looks like you'd want to wall mount in there as the Ceilings are too high.

Here is a color picture in a BAR with a lot of light compared to your place and still the image is not as crisp as what you would get with a good BW dome like the WizKid.

thanks rory you have been a big help, along with other members,this forum is a valuable learning tool for the novices.l managed to run cameras,put on connectors set the focus using a second monitor on site,all knowledge gained from this forum and even some issues with routers!!!

[/img][img]

ok here is the bar with the tvs behind the bar,and yes it is halloween,not my usually dressed up patrons.[/img]

That picture looks great. Is that a digital camera with the flash on?

Can't judge by that. Need to take pictures without the flash.

rory the wz 30s do you think that will do the trick? l ordered the wz46 and l thought they were a little expensive with the lens and all.l need a colour d/n at the door for sure,l have a lot more light from an atm, and maybe if the camera gives me crisp pictures and a wide angle to view a large area approx 25-35ft l could use the wz 30.can you provide a link or if anyone can p.m me a quote l would be grateful.l bought the wz 46 from north video,lf someone can give me a good price locally i would like to give you some business.

jasper, l wish l could get a picture like that!!thats my canon powershot a20 2 megapixel with the flash on!!

I was fighting with all kinds of color low light cameras at the club for years and in the end just comes down to where there is always low light, use BW .. if its a DN cam it just wont go into color anyway and the BW mode on DN domes are not as good as a pure BW camera, plus costs more.

These arent amazing and not the best there is out there, but its BW high res and good for the price.
http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

you say not the best out there!,looking at the specs and evrything is there a better similar camera that has good value for the dollar,only people with first hand experience please and please pm me with pricing.thanks in advance.

Yeah I got the message.

I do have first hand experience with the WizKid, but I will remain silent.

Well the WizKid is the lower end line of the Extreme Cameras, their EX domes have a lower lux level and other additional settings, probably most more expensive housing, etc, but for a bar I dont think you need more than the WizKid. In fact, you could probably get away with a non Vandal Proof dome with those high ceilings. Im still waiting on the owner to install them here at the club, he has been busy, so if you want to wait until i put them up, let me know and then you can see them online.

l definately could get away without the vandal proof dome like you said rory,l definately would like the best b/w camera l can for my dollar,l am looking at another company in the u,k who use these cameras in their niteclubs and pubs they are from vista and also PROTOS VPC 9432 W/EXVIEW l dont have a link right now!!

I dont think you need more than a basic BW CCD, which is 0.1 lux. Only want Exview if you want to see when the lights are off, without IR, but heres the thing, if its that dark you only get pixelisation anyway, and that takes up recording. You can get away with cheap BW alot more than Color. Check out the Ganz 0.1 Lux 1/3" Domes ... dont get the really cheapo OEM indoor ones though ...

If you really want one of the best and wont kill your pocket, get a lens cleaner kit, and order one of the GE 540E Exview BW Box cameras with a 2.9-8mm f:0.95 varifocal AI lenses. Your ceilings are very high. Use some GE indoor housings if you want to protect them and wall mount them. They come in beige but you can paint them high gloss auto black like i just did, i took them to an Auto shop, they came out great. No black housings available to fit full box cameras.

http://www.ge-consultantlink.com/Docs/ktc_540E_prd.pdf
http://www.ge-consultantlink.com/Docs/kte_100_200_300_prd.pdf
http://www.ge-consultantlink.com/Docs/cctv_lenses_prd.pdf
http://www.fujinoncctv.com/pdfs/cctv0904/YV27x29LA-2.pdf

Rory

http://www.norbain.co.uk/products//ref:0094690/

its a DN Exview Camera, GE has them in 1/3" Exview, Extreme has them in 1/2" LXR .. similar to Exview .. Bosch has a version, so does Pano ... that camera works on PAL so wont work on this side of the globe .. Once again though, Day Night ... will it stay in color ... will it switch to BW and stay there ..

Rory ,that ge model looks great,l will check with howard at spytown for my cost and l think that would be the way to go for my situation.if l was to get a day/nite and l have enough light,which one??l will take some pictures tonite,l am going in to check in on everyone, and l will take a few more pics without the flash and then l can finally finish with my research for my cameras!!l will post the shots later and get a better picture of our light situation!!
ls that lens a GE lens??if no which one do you recommend ie manufacturer.??

I did just get a faulty GE Day Night Exview actually, would only focus 2/3 of the image, though otherwise it was great, seemed to be a bad or fauly flange back, the back focus part. When you buy it, make sure they test it with a lens first and focus it to make sure it stays clear throughout the image, generally you wont need to back focus it anyway, i was just messing around with the one i had.

As for the Lens, GE has the same lens, F:0.95, that will give you very low lux sensitivity.

Rory

http://www.ge-consultantlink.com/Docs/camplus_man.pdf

Set to DD
Everything else can be default, you can turn on SAGC if it looks better, that makes it brighter, since its indoors only it could help, outdoors i never turn that on. BLC can stay on by default, if you have brightness/glare issues then turn it off. You shouldnt need LinkLock but wont hurt to leave it on default.

manual.
http://www.ge-consultantlink.com/Docs/camplus_man.pdf

What about trying a wide dynamic camera for this shot? It should compensate for the light differences.

airick,what do you suggest?

I'm not sure what I can link to and not link to because of the board rules. We are currently looking at the Videology 20E709W for some WD captures.

Here's a definition of WD I pulled from a google search:

Whoever wrote that definition, obviously doesn't have much knowledge of photography post 1920 something. When I was a kid (no jokes please!) you were always told to take photographs with the sun behind you (flat lighting, minimal shadows).

For anyone with a reasonable knowledge of picture taking, dealing with "contre jour" or against the light shots, can produce some quite startling and interesting images.

That said, CCTV is a whole different ball game, but whereas engineers have long sought to use the wide dynamic range of some camera imagers to produce a usable picture in backlit conditions, the fact is that for perhaps 50 - 75% of everyday situations, you can just as easily manipulate available lighting (either visible or IR) to produce a more pleasing and evenly lit image.

The idea that WDR is a new phenomenon, does somewhat overlook the fact that previous generations of Vidicon tubed cameras, had sufficient dynamic range to cope with lighting from perhaps 5 - 100,000 lux simply using a fixed iris lens (16mm f1.6 used on 2/3").

Rory,l just ordered that ge camera from spytown,what adjusments should l be looking to do with the settings of the camera,as l have little to no experience setting up the cameras for optimum viewing.l know l have to consider lighting background and foreground etc,but in general what would my settings be for this camera based on my bar lighting!!

which lens did you get?

the lens you suggested f0.95f 2.9-8mm ai.by fujinon.

I'm interested to see the shot you finally go if you are willing to post it.

no problem Airick,l just bought them ,they should arrive by wednesday and l also managed to pick up 2 panasonic wv 474 domes for $400.00 for both of them!! so l will install them by the weekend!!

Rory if you could advise me on the ideal settings for the 2 panasonics,based on the light conditions in my bar,l would really appreciate it!!l am going to put them near a lighter area(still dim though)

That is a smokin deal for those cameras. Did they fall off the back of a truck?? :lol: Where did you find those so cheap? You are talking about these right? WV-CW474AS