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finally got a pic up from my bar.this is a pan 924 box cam with a fujinon 1/2 inch lens,it actually makes the image far brighter than it actually is!!
l have a couple of pan 474 d/n domes and ge b/w 540e 0.95 f cameras also installed which l will post later!!
l have a few glare issues with tvs and neons any suggestions re settings would be great ie masking etc.

Yep, turn off AGC (Auto Gain Control) and BLC (Backlighting).

If still too much glare turn down the iris until the glare goes away.

Also, make sure the lens didnt get any finger prints or liquid on it.

PS. you got a ton of light sources in there ...

it looks like l have a lot of light sources but it is very dark/dim with only the neons and tvs giving off light!!
How do l turn down the iris??

Yep those Neons, TVs and Mirrors give off a lot of light. The IRIS adjustment is usually a little potentiator screw that allows you to adjust the amount of light coming into the camera.

If you haven't seen it already look in your manual and it should show it in there.

If you can handle the reflection you might want to leave it alone because the picture will get darker while trying to make the reflections less bright. You have a pretty nice picture now as far as no graininess.

You can adust the IRIS and see what you think though.

Here is that same image with the dark areas showing light sources or reflective surfaces.

thats cool looking ,how you do that??Anyway the main thing l am looking for is the picture of the people walking in the bar so we have an identifiable face of people that might cause problems(not that this is a dive bar) this is a university bar and some of the college kids can get a bit out of hand now and then!!
l prosecuted two people already one was a guy who wanted to sabotage one of my big screens by ripping out my connections and cables when he thought my bouncers wernt looking!l rewound the dvr and saw the guy backed him out to the entrance door and we have a id scanner that actually records the id presented by that person so l had evidence both ways id and crime, he had to pay $1500.00 for repair!!
The other time was on thanksgiving eve this year, a guy just wanted to do some vandalism and decide to put his elbow through the digital jukebox we caught him on camera and again got his id through the scanner and got him to pay for it!!

Going back to the cams,l set the pan 474 d/n domes to b/w however l am still seeing brightness on faces (too bright) and was wandering what adjusments l should do! Also the picture has a small delay that is noticable enough even in live view on the monitor,do l change anything with re.shutter speed,sensitivity,etc as l would like a nice smooth picture like a fixed lens!!
One more question(sorry) quality of camera like a pan 474 does the dvr have to be a certain quality to accept and process the picture in order for me to see good pictures(my dvr is the nuvico xg model and that picture was a still from the cdrw recorded at the site)

Jasper catches on quick :lol:

histogram examples, notice image 1 is my car park with that big florecent light
(ofcourse images are camera dependent and you would need to adjust your glare issues)

Thanks Rory. I have learned a lot from you. :D

How come you changed the Pan 474 domes to B/W? Switching them to B/W will only make them more sensitive to light.

Nothing using any kind of compression for the video is going to give you the full quality you can see on the monitor. Even if you recorded the video uncompressed your then limited by the maximum recording resolution of the DVR.

Are you using the WV-CL924A in the camera shot above? I briefly looked in the manual and nothing jumped out about adjusting the IRIS, but I am sure it is there. Felt like I was reading a book. That camera has a lot of features.

I dont know the Nuvico but with most Stand alone DVRs thats typically the back up image size. (320x240) Local playback is where you would notice a big difference between a high res and lower res recording image.

Make sure everything is set to default, and just adjust the Iris level.
You dont need to adjust the shutter, AGC, or BLC on a decent camera in a location like this. If anything get a lower F stop lens and camera.

BLC would be for looking at an area with alot of back lighting such as a door entrance. AGC would be where there is very little light 24/7. Shutter speed would be where you are attempting to catch fast moving objects like cars.

Rory

The iris adjustment is the same as with any camera. If the lens is an Auto Iris lens then you would have to adjust the Iris Port, or AI level, depending on the camera.

Open the Iris all the way (bright), then close it (dimmer) slowly until the glare goes away (not over exposed anymore). Then you can make the focus adjustments and any other adjustments required.

Here i link you to check out
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/camera/exposure/

yep,thats the one,l bought it reconditioned for $250.00,and that was going to be my next question ie. where is the iris adjustmet on this cam as l did not get manuals with it.l am going off the 474 manual which is similar setup!!
Reason for b/w setting is it is very dark! and l decided to set it to b/w to get a clearer picture however l would like to get a couple of clear dome covers to allow more light so l could leave it at d/n auto switch if the light is too low it5 will switch to b/w automatically.l am still playing around with settings,the 474 cams are not facing the tvs or neons so it is a different light issue,l will get some pics in the next few days to show you what l mean.Also how do yo post a 10 sec video clip to the forum,l used photo bucket to send a jpeg image but l am not sure how to post a video clip from the cdrw l recorded at the site!!!

if anyone has a link to the manual please post it

Here is the link to your manual: ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/CCTV/OperatingInstructions/WV-CL924A-OPERATING-INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

This is the web site I have been using for hosting video files. It has a lot of annoying advertisements, but it is free so can't complain.

http://www.filefactory.com/

Yeah found it thanks, everything is done in the OSD programming ... so good luck LOL

Actually yeah, leave Shutter OFF, Sens Up OFF, ALC.

under ALC, you can try it with Preset BLC on or Preset BLC OFF.


They have alot of settings you will have to play with, i think the AI level should be under ALC though I may be wrong as Ive only ever used a couple OSD cameras, basically the same settings as any other OSD ... i still prefer the dip switch Cameras with normal settings ... :wink:

Send me one of these and Ill figure it out for you .. ;-)
Or ... get it online with something where I can adjust it for you and see the image as we change the settings ... nothing like having it in your hands to check the settings under various lighting conditions to understand them properly though. I would suggest taking it home and testing all its settings properly first so you know what it is doing under different lighting conditions, should only take 1 full night/day


Rory

Look forward to seeing the other two cameras in action too.

Post a couple of pictures when you can.

and some video shots like Jasper posted :lol:
(but some better looking girls ...) :)

That wasn't a girl it was something they found in the woods. :lol:

Just teasing. :D

sf 1964,

Just a quick suggestion for you; in the cameras present location (although to be honest, I'm not absolutely convinced that's the best place for it), if you tilt the camera down perhaps a further 15 degrees, you should loose the top 25% of the picture, which also contains a significant amount of your 'light' sources.

You'll have far more (better) foreground coverage, although if you do get any 8' basketball players walking in, you might just miss the top of their heads.:lol:

cooperman,i will try that suggestion,maybe the centre of pic will be the focus and eliminate some glare,and we only have 7 footers here at rutgers
univ. :lol:
this camera is the best one in my location, and l wanted it in colour aimed on the door since all the other ones are in b/w because of low light!!

After re-reading this thread I realize you intend on using that camera to ID people. That camera is not zoomed in enough on that door for good identification purposes.

I like the way Rory setup a camera at a club that gets a head and upper body shot of the person before they come in the door. Then in conjunction with other cameras used for monitoring you can ID the person easily.

Just a thought.

he is already scanning the ID's when they enter..........camera's add/support activity in bar.

If he has already used the system to identify and collect, all he's after now is a better pic.

Yep. Your probably right. Forgot about the ID scanner.

How is the scanning being done? The system that allows you to scan their ID and take a video still image seems to be a good way. As long as every person that comes in gets their ID scanned then no problem, otherwise no positive ID.

yeah Jasper they also have a walk through metal detector now ... :P

Yeah, that place was long over due for one of those.

That place is so busy they don't have time to scan ID's. That place needs the X-Ray scanner like they used on Arnold in "Totall Recall". :lol:

yep, they were searching shoes also BTW .... even with the metal detectors

that last stabbing though they didnt search the suspects shoes properly and thats how he got the knife in, hopefully this will illiminate any future incidents like that .. though they could just throw the knife over the wall in the day and pick it up at night ... :?

Is there an IR filter on that camera lens? What model lens did you use?

funny guys!!That pic was only at the front of the bar and l also have a cam closer overlooking the door only!!When the person walks in the door cam picks up,then when the id is put through the id cam it then bypasses the door cam and you get the actual picture of the licence etc.then when you take it out it goes back to the door cam,so in effect l have id and door cam using in series using one power source,that way l can have 2 cams instead of one!!
I guess l will have to show you the bar when l have a line outside to get in and maybe some hot college girls aswell :) That pic was taken at 8.00pm nobody goes out in college bars till at least 11pm!!!!
http://spyville.com/idcamera.html
thats the id cam l use!

You did a good job putting together a nice system. That scanning system is the one I was reffering to in my post above. Nice system.

Did you use a fixed lens on this camera or a varifocal? What F-stop did you use?

You said it makes it brighter than the scene actually is, that is why I am asking about the particular lens you are using. Curiosity.

jasper,it is a varifocal 1/2 inch lens by fujinon l purchased from pr o security w arehou se.l dont know the specs off hand as l bought it over a year ago,l would have to find my invoice if l still have it to find out,or you could give them a call and they would give you the correct lens for your application,ps the lens are over $xxx and they dont have an awful lot of these 1/2 lenses,l guess not much demand!!

ok,just found the invoice it says model # HG2Z4516FCS-2 1/2 INCH 4.5-10MM AUTO IRIS LENS $xxx.00
http://www.tycosafetyproducts-europe.com/english/pdf/datasht/cctv/HG2Z4516FCS-2.pdf

Thanks.

I will check it out. :D

JUST ADDED A LINK,IT WAS A COMPUTAR LENS NOT FUJINON!!

That is funny. I am at the same exact site reading about it now. :wink:

I am suprised you are getting such good low light results because when they quote the lux ratings for that camera I believe is was with an f1.4 lens.
Actually not that suprised because after reviewing the specs again I can see with the f1.4 you can achieve a 0.14 lux for color and 0.06 for BW, so the F1.6 is still going to give you good color response, just won't go as low in B/W.

If you end up moving the camera down like Copperman suggested repost a new picture and let us take a look at it.

[img][/img]
ok here is the pan 474d/n in b/w mode l am still playing around with settings,as you can see this is very difficult lighting with the tvs flickering in front of lens!!This was recorded onto cd on site .

l just finished the install of the ge 540 b/w cams with 0.95f lens,l am very happy with it (thanks rory) l get to see an awful lot of the bar area with this lens and there is no light issues because of the dim light,l also adjusted the pan 474 domes back to auto 1 and sensitivity x10 auto and left them in colour ,they will change to b/w if it gets too dark,but it is staying in colour upto now(good camera) but is a bit grainy but still a decent picture.
l tried filefactory .com but lt is not working for me as l have a couple of 10 sec clips from the cd l brought from the bar that l wanted to share!!

[img][/img]

p.s thats me 4th person down leaning against the bar,talking to guy with hat on,l guess someone has to be working!! :D

the gal behind him is the one you should be "working" on... 8)

email me the video clips ill post them for you

rory

Rory :lol:

Are you happy now. :D

How big of files will go through your email server Rory? And sf1964, can you send files larger than 10MB? Are they smaller? When you tried sending them to me I just got two 1KB files with nothing in them.

Not enogh light for decent color though huh? Shame.

can ftp them to my HDD

Or Skype? If he has an account?

I don't know why the FileFactory site isn't working for you? From the home page you just go down the page to where is says upload up to 500MB, click on that, it prompts you for the code on the screen, you check a box that you agree to the terms, then browse to the file you want to upload and click on and it uploads it and gives you a link.

l tried to upload straight from cd,not from hard drive!!! maybe that has issues,also l did not send the viewer(proprietery software to view)recorded images,l am not sure how to do this as you need the nuvico software to view!!
Do l have to save the videofiles on my h.d first and then l can email???

rory send me your email and l will try again later on.

Yeah, you should copy the files to the hard drive first as it is a touchy process as it is already. Then you can try it again and see what happens.

Rory is in the same boat. He can't except big files through his email either. You can try FileFactory again. They have another area below the file upload, which is sending large files via email. You can try this. Try sending one to my email address. It will upload and then provide a download link. I can then try and see if it will play back on my computer before I upload it to the forum.

I think I will get a hosting site soon though to avoid the FileFactory. Maybe I will take a look right now.

Rory was going to have you ftp the files onto his computer. I don't know if you were prepared to do that or not?

i can accept them, i just dont want my email server hanging up :wink:

its easier to ftp ...

i cant send anything over 1meg .. as my SMTP is the local ISP since they block port 25 ..

Skype is easy though, no ports to forward ...

sf 1964,

A couple more suggestions for you to try with the 'pan 474 dome' over the bar (incidentally, I don't know this camera at all).

Pan the camera about 10 - 12 degrees to the right, and perhaps 10 degrees down. That should tidy up the framing to exclude unwanted overhead space, and the nearest TV on the left hand side of the picture.

Initial impressions look like there is a degree of flaring being caused by light shining onto the dome cover. If you can, perhaps try using black 'gaffer' tape or insulating tape, to tape over the entire dome cover around the lens. This should help to reduce internal reflections in the cover itself, caused by side lighting.

It may or may not help, but it's certainly worth a try.

duly noted cooperman,l cant seem to be able to adjust it more than l have it as it is wall mounted,it swivels almost 300 degrees if it was on the ceiling but l am limited to how much sise to side play with the gimble on the wall mount.Maybe l should mount it higher(ceiling 12ft) anyway and l will not be in the way of the glare of the tvs!!

ok,l emailed jasper with the client software or anyone can download it from nuvicos website it is for the xg model dvr http://www.nuvico.com/product.asp?strCategoryCD=DC001&strModel=XG%20SERIES
secondly here is a link to view video (using dvr client)http://http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ITBVQ9X7

let me know if you guys have any success,l am not that technical with computers :? so bear with me!!

Or try this links to view!!http://www.msnusers.com/h54p46mabi5aaj84hepidjvbi7/documents.msnw?fc_a=0&fc_p=

Sorry, looks like you emailed me a shortcut Link instead of the actual software? I got a .zig file less than 1k size.

The MSN link I am getting a prompt to sign up. :D

The Megaupload Link is been loading for over 10 minutes now. :shock:

The DVR link worked and I downloaded and installed the client software. Just need to figure out how we can help you to upload your sample video files.

You could always open up a Skype account, which is free. It lets you send files to another person without having any technical skills. You just need to setup an account and PM me or Rory and let us know what your skype name is. We can chat you through the rest, it allows chat also. :D

http://www.skype.com/

sf1964,

You really don't want to mount the camera any higher, unless you absolutely have to.
Is there any way you could fit a basic 'L' shaped wall bracket, so you have the same level of movement available, as would be if it were ceiling mounted?

what type of wall bracket could be used for this cam?? anybody!! so l could mount it lower and have the flexibility of ceiling mount.
cooperman where are you from in the u.k?.l was born in newcastle and then moved down to the lancs/yorks border near the pennines a small town called Barnoldswick,near Burnley in Lancs.

Sf, from Newcastle to Soprano country, not much difference there then :)

Newcastle also........

HAWAAY THE LADS!!North Shields to be exact!!

here is a video link finally sorted out thanks to jasper.http://www.filefactory.com/get/v3/f2.php?f=184c08dac7996d188928f45c

does the camera have a slider bar with Peak settings, I know some high end cameras allow you to set your peak light level......no not dc level...peak settings therefore your brighter images are toned down...

sf1964, got my server up today after all. So I uploaded your two example files so people won't have to go through the FileFactory, which can be annoying.

Sample of Panasonic 924 1/2 lens Box camera (color)

http://cctv.files4u.info/Pano%20924%20cam%20demo%20sf1964.avi

Sample of Panasonic Dome 47 (in BW mode)

http://cctv.files4u.info/pan%20474.avi

thanks jasper

So from geordie land to lancashire, and then off across the pond; sf 1964, that must be one heck of an interesting accent you've got there :P

Bit ov a cockney meself, if yer get me drift :wink:

If you are using a panasonic camera and it has THe SDII or SDIII feature try turning up the dynamic range by going into the menu if it is not on turn it on. Glare from thoes inds of machines is a problem casinos have. if you have the time try finding a Polorized filter for the lense.

to follow up on the filter, here is one place to check, they are in NY btw.

http://www.tiffen.com/filters.htm

turning up dynamic range?? Would that be x10 auto, x16 auto,x32 auto etc

still a bit of a novice on camera settings!!it is set to x10 auto currently.Would the lens lose some of the light entering it if yoe put a polarized filter on ??

That should be the way it works. IN the menu it should list the differant settings of the dynamic range.

sf1964,

Thought I would check in and see how you were doing with your setup.

If you have any new video footage from the new cameras and your new system I would be happy to host it for you. :wink:

jasper l just pm you my ip and temp password to my new icrealtimr dvr when you have seen it let me know so l can possibly share with others.

Rory, thanks for that link. I love having "CCTV Cameras 101" info so I can help educate people about cameras and how they work. This is a great tool.

If you have others, share them please :)

I never did get logged in, but a saw some video from another ICRealtime system. Your cameras are better though so I am still curious to see what your sample video would look like from that system.

Have you figured out how to export the video? I have the player I downloaded. I just would need a .mp4 file to play.

jasper,ill get a file later tonite as l am tied up a bit today!!

Sure.

Anytime, when you have time. :P