How well do these types of cameras work? Does the ir reflect against the clear cover? do they work as well as bullet cameras? Can all of them be mounted vertically? Thanks.

there are many different types, and they all work differently.

Any brands in mind?

They have some good Day/Night domes.

Some can be mounted vertically, like the Sayno VDC-1184VA.

Others have a gimbal that will allow you to position the camera at different angles.

I personally would avoid IR in the dome, but if a customer wants cheap that that is what you have to give them.

Is it for indoor or outdoor?

It is for outdoor, and I have a $150 budget.

Your not going to get any type of quality Day/Night camera for that amount of money. Not a true Day/Night camera anyway. Maybe a cheap OEM or something, I don't know?

nope .... that would be a very entry level dome, no gimble, and pretty shabby IR feature.

150? good luck. might want to up your budget

What would you guys recommend if his budget was (EDIT) $500-$800 in a Day/Night Dome, for outside?

Oh yeah and can mount vertically and has a 360 degree gimbal?

And it has to be surface mount, not flush.

That is a more realistic budget I think.

well if we are talking retail, that still doesnt cut it, and if we arent, we should take this into the dealer section ... :wink:

Cheaper Vandal Day Night Domes with Gimbles:
Nuvico, Vitek, Hunt - and Other OEMs from South Korea.

Expensive with Gimbles:
Extreme . . anyone else ..?

OK FAS, your just too cheap. :D

OK, lets say I am looking for a good Day/Night Dome, similar to the specs of the Sanyo, but will hold up outside.

And it has to be a surface mount, not a flush.

What would you recommend?

Well the Sanyo doesnt actually have a 360 gimble, it is still limited to how far you can move it to the left, right, up, or down.

Budget would be more like mid range .. like Vitek, Nuvico, Hunt, etc, there are a brands of South Korean Domes (which they mostly use) and have the 360 gimble. They are OEM so you will find many start ups and ones like the above mentioned, using the same dome, but with various different custom specified options.

Yeah, that is why I was asking. With the Gimbal it allows you to point the camera at different angles even mounted vertically and still keep the picture straight right? Or does it just give you a 360 degree turning radius?

Sounds like hopeful thinking on my part. Doesn't even make sense to me, but maybe I am wrong. :D

If it just allows turning the camera a full 360 degrees than a camera that has the same ability of the Sanyo that can withstand the weather is fine. Up and down is alright.

you can turn the camera any way you want - up, down, left, right, etc. no matter which way the dome itself is mounted.

For example: If you wall mount it, and then adjust the camera to the right all the way, you can then adjust the camera clockwise or counter clockwise to straighten it. A camera that can only go up and down would be useless in that situation, as then you would have to mount the housing elsewhere, looking directly at the FOV.

OK. I am a lttle confused now.

If I mount a dome vertically I can't really use the gimble to rotate the camera without the picture going all sideways on me can I?

I can only use the pan and tilt function, but not the gimbal right?

Or is there a 3rd axis to allow me to point it at an angle and keep the picture straight?

Hmmmm ... okay ... using a Monitor attached to the Video Out, Spliced with a T-Connector, or just running back and forth to the main monitor .... if you want the FOV to be something to the right of the camera ... turn the camera to the right ...it may/may not go off level, if it does, then using the same gimble, adjust the horizontal level of the camera so it straightens out.

The gimble, or whatever the manufacturer calls it, basically allows full 360 degree spinning of the camera in any direction. It generally will stop as you direct it inside the dome housing itself, depending on the manufacturer.

Rory,

I usually stick with Nuvico. I am looking for an outdoor solution that is vandal proof. That being said, what is the best option? I can't go beyond $150 per camera, and it must be a vertical mount that can see sideways almost as close as the wall it is mounted on. If ir is out of the question, then maybe I can have them install lights.

Unfortunately I do not know of any domes in that price range with the 360 degree adjust feature and True Day Night - Dealer or Retail pricing. Not even Eclipse has that in that price range.

You maybe able to get a BW model though, WizKid for example, has that in their WZ46's.

Course things are changing daily, maybe one out there now .. .

You got that right. Nothing even close to $150, not even at dealer prices.

Try like at least 3-4 times that.

The Sayno's that Rory and I have are good cameras, but your not going to touch one at that really low unrealistic price. Where did you come up with these prices?

Maybe try to find some used older models or some rebuilts. I don't know, $150 dollars, come on.

Ill check on the Day Night Vandal Eclipse Dome tomorrow, I know it has built in IR seperated from the lens, much like the Sunkwang's IR Domes. Also high res. I cant say if it is fully adjustable or not yet, will know once ive checked. I doubt it is True Day Night also, so would have no IR Cut Filter. I havent used it but will check the specs at least. Its basically an OEM from Asia.

Jasper, he may get that price if he bought by the 100 from Asia :-)

I didn't come up with these prices. It's what they gave me a budget for.

Looks like a job for a Bullet camera, also a budget one that doesnt have an IR Cut Filter.

Rory

Yep and those look like crap. Maybe a BW camera.

The budget you were given isn't enough for what their expectations might be. You might want to talk to them about it so they don't end up disappointed.

Rory,

On the Extreme EX46N / EX46NX for example they state a:

Full rotational XYZ gimbal. How does that work?

X = pan up
Y = Pan down
Z = Rotate

or

X = pan up/down
Y = Rotate
Z = 3rd axis, camera angle adustment?

Or

A = I don't know
B = I don't care
C = I am having a beer now.
D = All of the above

:lol:

if they must have domes, it is going to be very budget equipment. Then you will want to probably look at a budget Color dome where lighting is decent, and a budget BW dome where it is low light. Ill still check out the one i mentioned tomorrow, but cant promise it will be within budget - and it is a budget camera. Domes are just more expensive than bullet cameras, even in the budget line.

D and E = i would have to go outside in the dark to check my dome .. :lol:

That dome camera you mentioned above Rory has an IR Cut filter. I don't know about the gimbal part, but it is up there in price. Not even close to $150.

The Speco LEDome/W Color Weatherproof Day/Night Dome Camera with External IR LEDs anyway. That is the one I am reffering to.

Thanks for trying. If you come up with any suggestions, please let me know.

yeah but that Speco model is 4 times the price, and thats dealer pricing.
For that price i would use the Extreme myself.

Sorry fas,

Google the internet maybe you can find something that will work out for you.

I am thinking of trying another Day/Night dome out other than the Sanyo.

Any recommendations off hand. It needs to be able to be outside, not direct weather, under a porch.

The Sanyos are Rated at IP66, which is dust tight and preteced against heavy seas. Any other ones out there that have the same range of operation and are around the same price, maybe a little more?

The range of operationof the Sanyo is 1.2 lux for color, .06 lux BW.

The Panasonic WV-CW474AS looks to have better specs:

.08 lux and .02 lux, with an optional clear dome cover. Otherwise it is 1.6 and .2 with the 50% smoked dome.

It has the 3 Dimension hinges which will allow you to postion the camera at any angle if I read this correctly.

Looks like a nice Day/Night Dome.

not wall mount ...

Got the specs wrong also:

Minimum Illumination At F1.4 Wide:
2.0lux (0.2fc) at color imaging mode
0.2lux (0.02 fc) at B/W mode
0.8lux (0.08 fc) at color image mode, with optional dome cover
0.1lux (0.01 fc) at B/W mode, with optional dome cover

How do you know it won't mount on the wall. Because it doesn't say so specifically?

Those Sanyos we bought still look pretty good for the money. :D

If I can't find something better close to the same price, this looks like it is still one of the best domes for the money?

I dont use the Sanyo either for wall mount, just not the right design .. WizKid, Extreme, GE, Hunt, Nuvico, etc, are more designed for wall mounting. ..

I have one wall mounted vertically. No problem.

I could have swore I read somewhere that they could be, but I can't remember where I might have read it.

The ones that are not supposed to be wall mounted, what happens does the camera not stay in postion or what is the deal with that whole issue?

all can, i just dont due to cosmetics and no 360 gimble.

Yeah, your right about that.

All up and down action only. But if that is all you need then the dome can work out nice. I am thinking of mounting a dome vertically above the front door. It doesn't use that much space. It costs less than box after factoring in the housing needed, plus the downside of the unit being larger.

I really like these Sanyo's. I have one laying on its side pointing out the front window with only a street light accross the street and it sees great.

For the money, I have used the new CAM 77 Varifocal Armor Dome from from Mace, and though not IR, but has a true DAY/NIGHT image at 540 TV Lines, DNR and dual voltage for the long runs.

It's the same camera American Sentry Guard calls the VisionCam RX at a much more competitive price.

That is a better priced camera, but it will not see as good as the Sanyo in low light. The CAM 77 is rated at .3 for color .1 for black and white.

.1 is not real good for black and white.

Also I don't see a IR filter on the camera so I would think if it is uesd outside the colors would be washed out?

It is cheaper than the Sanyo, but it would probably need external IR for low light, which means more money.

Jasper, if you haven't used the CAM 77 whether Mace brand or the VisionRX (same camera) from American Sentry Guard, I suggest you try before you knock either one, because it produces one heck of clear image without the aide of an external IR.

CAM 77 is a true day night dome.

FYI, Mace is a little behind on posting the correct specs for the CAM 77 line, check out the specs as listed at

http://www.sentryguard.net/dealer/rx.asp

Ditto. Have you tried the Sanyo VDC-D1184VA?

Does the CAM 77 have an IR filter. If not, it is not a true Day/Night Camera.

I promise you it is a way better camera than that MACE in every respect.

Specs are great lets see how it performs in the real world.

The Sanyo doesn't even need IR in low light, only in very dark situations.

And I am not knocking it. I am only pointing out the facts. Specs compared to specs, the MACE does not match the Sanyo.

Actually, those American Sentry Guard Cameras are good cameras, Made in South Korea (isnt Mace Chinese??) but ... they are NOT True Day Night cameras. There is a reason you pay double for the True Day Night camera, and that is mentioned on another Thread here.

BTW, the actual manufacturer of that camera does make True Day Nights, but the OEM companies are not selling them as they are trying to cut down on the cost, since in the case of the mentioned web site and many others, they sell primarily budget-mid range Asian Import (OEM) equipment. If they havent used many very good cameras, then they will think anything is "da bestest" :-)

Its good to use the budget gear and have an offering for the client, but at the same time, as in the case of a colleague of mine that also sells those cameras, its good to know how a higher end camera performs and have those to offer also. The same goes with DVRs.

The lux rating I keep reading on these Day/Night domes are not very good in most cases. Many cases they use sens up, AGC or low IRE to exagerate the actual capabilities.

If it can't see at night they should call it a Day and almost dark camera. :D

What they are is almost identical to how an Exview Camera works, switches to a BW mode for additional Sensitivity, but it is not a true BW mode. Because these are Super HAD and not Exview, they must use Super AGC type settings (Sens Up) and other Digital Methods to try to get as low as an Exview Chip, which if they were to use, would bring the price up considerably. Anyway thats my take on them.

Well what type of chip are they using in those Sanyo domes.

I know it is an interline transfer CCD, but how do you compare those?

Why does the Sanyo see so good in low light compared to these other domes? They just have better lenses?

The Sanyo is a True Day Night camera, the BW Mode uses a Mechanical Filter to remove the Chroma.

So do some of these others, but they still don't see in BW down to .06 lux or .04 lux I saw it stated in another one of Sanyos documents.

What day/night dome gets that low in that price range?
Or even a little higher, not the Extreme priced Extremes Rory, though you could mention one just for reference.

Most True Day Nights will be the same lux settings, lux is all a game anyway, and the lens used has a large effect on how low they can go also. If it is Exview then it will go even lower. The BW Mode is normally a lower lux as there is no color, like 0.1 lux.

Nothing can match a seperate BW camera anyway.

Well if lux is all a game, would it not be in these other company's best interest to advertise lower specs? Is Sanyo being dishonest?

OK, what domes do you know regardless of their specs that see as good in low light as these Sanyos. I am not saying the Sanyo dome it the best.

I just don't know one off hand in the same price range that is better, do you? Brand, model?

Does anybody?

Is the Sanyo Dome the best Day/Night camera for the money that can see in really low light?

Hmmm.

its the best I could find to date, that is a True Day Night ... The Panosonic is good too, i just dont like its cosmetics ... save it for WD apps ... the GE (if the rep is watching) didnt work out too well for me, less settings than the Sanyo, and more expensive .. plus no 360 degree gimble, had to bend it to work. Ganz looks interesting also .. will see what the Korean Manufacturers have coming out .. seen some interesting stuff, WD True Day Night, 540/600TVL, 0.1/0.01 lux Exview Day Night with Mech Filter .... just noone is selling them yet. My client has had 2 Sanyos now for over 4 years ... Course always looking for something better and cheaper ...

BTW, the sanyo isnt actually that low lux in Color mode ... it works out well in BW mode though .. but doesnt match up to their True Day Night box camera for low light in both color and BW .. which doesnt match up to the GE Exview True Day NIght .. also a mention Bosch has an Exview true Day Night PTZ ...

Yeah. And even if someone does start selling them, they are going to be more expensive, unless the last years models drop in price.

"WD True Day Night, 540/600TVL, 0.1/0.01 lux Exview Day Night with Mech Filter" That sounds real good. Let me know when they start selling them.

Until then I guess the Sanyo is my winner for now.

The better/cheaper thing doesn't usually work out that way. :D

me personally, down here, ill just sell them a cheap BW or cheap Color bullet if they are on a budget, and a cheap cheap CMOS Color IR bullet for the super budget ... then sell the high end for people that want quality.

You mean that are willing to pay for quality or can afford quality.

CCTV equipment has not hit a sweet spot in the market place yet, like PC's.

At least not for residential customers and many small business customers as well.

Alot of times, if you properly explain the differences between a Budget Camera and a High quality camera, they will go with the higher quality regardless of the higher cost ... but ofcourse some people are just cheap ...

Or broke. :cry:

then you are dealing with me or you, and we getting bullet cameras no questions asked ... :wink:

Nah. I think I will go without a little food and get another one of those Sanyo Domes. :D

At least one good camera. Cheap bullet for other areas if I ever get around to them. :P

true that ... well a cheap bullet landed here is probably the same price you would pay for that dome up there anyway ...

Yeah, probably right.

That sucks, that is all I can say about that.

You have to set up a camera smuggling operation. :D

Just kidding any of you government types that might read this. :wink:

The IR Domes we use have a gasket that squeezes up against the dome from the lens so that any IR light reflected off of inside of the dome cannot get to the lens and affect the shot.

The foam doesn't work all the time though. When the camera board inside is moved to an abnormal position its hard to get that foam gasket to stay flush with the cover. Also, you run into catching a part of the foam on the video depending on lenses used.

And when the gasket is working, does it really stop all of it?