l am updating my existing system from 4 to 16 channel so l have 4 additional cameras for now which are 4 flexidomes by bosch and a 2 panasonics 924a and maybe 2 outdoor domes.l have existing hookups to 4 cameras w/siamese cable with power lead.My question is what is my best way to hookup additional cameras as they have only the 2 screws connection and if i was to replace some of my existing cameras with better quality is there anyway to use the existing wire ie cut the end lead and connect to terminals of new camera??l have bought a roll of 500ft of rg59 powered cable and bnc connectors and was thinking about a power supply but l want to know if l can combine everything in a powersupply and use also my siamese cable,and get rid of the bricks that l plug in?

any suggestions much appreciated.

Yes.

At the Camera end:

Just connect the power to the 2 terminals on the camera, and the RG59 to the BNC. You can just split the cable where it comes to the camera, so the power and RG59 is then seperate. I normally split it in the drop ceiling if there is one, so it is loose time as it reaches the camera.

At The DVR/Power End:

Once again split the cable at a common point, the power will then goto the Multiple Power Supply, the RG59 to the DVR. Then use Tie Straps to make it neat.

Its so much easier actually than using Domes/Bullets and Splicing Wires or using Terminal Strips. This way the power and RG59 is direct without any junctions.

Rory

what about the existing leads l have with my plug and play cheaper cameras,they have a power connector that plugs to the connector on the wire.Is it the same rating of wire so if l do cut the lead off l will have two wires to connect to my better camera.Am l thinking the right way or should l run completely new cable,it seems a shame to run wire again where l have existing.!!

Depends on the camera. It should be okay, see what the power rating for the cheap and the new cameras are. What type and length of wire do you have run from the original cameras for power right now?

what do l do about the bnc connections outdoors?is there a way to protect from elements?

less than 75 feet, unsure of the rating as it was called siamese cable with power lead.

For the cheaper cameras they usually have a yellow lead for video, red for positive, and black for negative. You can splice the red on the camera lead to the red on your siamese cable, combine all black leads into black on siamese cable, and then run yellow lead to center conductor on RG59 and ground on camera lead to braid on RG59.

Another little tip with the power leads at the DVR end. I usually remove the covering back about three feet on the sieamese cable. If you stick the red and black leads into a drill and keep a little tension on the cable you can spin the black and red conductors into a cool looking twisted cable that is easier to route and manage.

Once we are taking about Domes or Bullets; Domes and Bullets normally come with a short cable lead from the camera to a connection point.

If I cant get the connections inside a ceiling or attic, then I just use a regular sized weatherproof electric gang box and make all connections in there; Power and BNC Connection can normally fit in one of them with ease. I also seal up all cracks or holes with clear caulking (most of the time).

I think he is meaning connecting new cameras where the existing wire is for the original cheap cameras.

I dont recommend splicing unless there is no alternative, especially onto RG59. Also, problem with the twisted cable technique, (not to mention damaging the wire) is you see a red and black wire going to the camera, while the Siamese Cable I use, have a seperate inner insulation for the power and the RG59, so the white cable for power goes direct to the camera, then splits the red & black at the very last point, so no red/black wire can be seen from below.

That said, I have spliced onto RG59 myself before, there was no alternative.

thanks for the tips .l think l am going to run all new cable as l think l am going to keep just one of my old cameras, however what do you do with outdoor connections (silicone?)

The original cable is Siamese cable also?

If your existing cable is also Siamese Cable, then you can use the same cable for power and video.

Rory

How do you mean?

Never leave a connection exposed if that is what you mean ...silicone wont help , it needs to be sealed in a box like a weatherproof electric gang box, or something that is sealed properly.

existing is powered cable with power connector, l dont know if is the same as rg59 with power (no power connector)

is it all Siamese Cable or is it RG59 and then seperate Power Cable? Or is it one long lead that came with the cameras??

this is siamese cable;
http://store1.yimg.com/I/spytown_1822_38817172

lt is all one cable and splits at the end so you can connect to the bnc and power feed of the camera

Like this???

http://www.spytown.com/premwat100fo.html

if that is what it is like, then yes run new RG59 Siamese Cable, power part is probably okay, but that video cable is just way too thin for my liking, Id imagine there must be a large loss of video quality than if using RG59.

its not the same as the link it has fittings on the end.l think we are talking about the same thing however the wire l have is flatter,and has power fitting and bnc it comes in 25-50-75-100ft lengths

http://www.cctvwholesalers.com/customer/product.php?productid=16196&cat=0

So the video cable is the same kind of thickness as in the link? Basically, if it is not RG59, then run new cable. It will probably work okay, but just to be safe, without knowing the exact size of the power wire, and then the camera power ratings, i would run new wire. Im taking over a jo now that has RG56 cable and we are just running all new Siamese RG59 cable one time, its worth it.

Ofcourse the best would be some Amplified Active NVT Cat5 transceivers! :-))) $$$ But then I havent come across anyone yet that could afford that, let alone even the better option, and more $$$$$$$$$ Fiber ..

thanks rory l wish l could have rememberd the link earlier lt would have saved us some time.

Oh yeah ..... i'd change it! Thats basically the same, basically around the same as just running RCA Cable and Splicing it (or telco wire).... It Would work, probably, at 75', depends on the current draw on the new cameras. If its impossible or hard to run new cables, find out what the draw is of the new cameras then we can figure it out.

Rory

no prob.

Im even reluctant to run that thin of a wire in my own appt and only 50' ....
but thats me, I want the best quality image as far as the video side goes ... :-)

Power wise it just depends on the camera ..

Rory

ps these were the cameras l am replacing in my bar,l am replacing with bosch flexidome xt and l picked up a panasonic 924a
http://www.cctvwholesalers.com/customer/product.php?productid=16155&cat=303&page=1

http://www.nvt.com/applications/pvd_application_concepts.html
check out the table which shows the different power voltages.

I dont have a boxof wire in my appt right now, But as far as I can remember, 24awg is normal Telco wire, much like RCA, while 22awg is the thicker wire that comes in the RG59 Siamese Cable. So you see, if the camera is 300ma, then with a 12vdc camera its like 50' max ......

Rory

Yeah that bullet is probably only 100ma, while the pano you are adding is going to be alot more, 300ma+. You are buying that $800 camera yeah!! :-) It is nice, 1/2 inch, great specs also.

Not sure about the Bosch dome of hand, but since you are buying such high end cameras, I would definately run better cable. This actually would have ended the discussion alot sooner, maybe I didnt notice it ..! Its late .... :-)

Heck, if you really want to go all out, some NVT Cat5 active tranceivers ... then there will never be any issues with interference, ground loops/hums, anything like that, just great quality video ($$$ Though). You would just run Cat5 cable for all cameras. You would use 2 pairs for power, and then just 1 pair for the video ...

Rory

yep l got a great deal, but anyone you know use these bosch phillips flexidomes three people including supply houses recommended them so l picked one up and doing the install myself this week,if l like it l am going for a few more and also im going for the new 16 ch nuvico dvr xg model(price and dynamic i.p) w/400g h.d whats your thoughts l am finally almost dcided on it.

Well... whats the price .. on the Nuvico?
Im pretty much stuck on the GE DVRs, they are just rock hard solid stand alones, and full of features.

As for the domes, no never heard of anyone else using them, yet. What type are they, the BW? The look doesnt appeal to me, but Phillips is a good brand and I have used their other cameras like the dinions, well its bosch now ... so in essence you cant go wrong with them, just make sure its not a color camera as in the club it wont see anything! If you are still looking for a good vandal'proof' BW High Res dome, check out the WizKid WZ30, its reasonably cheap, high res, and is undestructable :-) And the best thing is, it is wall mountable by design, plus has a 360 degrees gimble for the lens.

ive used the higher priced Kalatel (GE) Domes but still like the WizKid better, and the support and warranty is the best Ive seen. though WizKid is not especially cheap, it is a dept of Extreme CCTV, but the material and lenses are cheaper thats how the price is lower. They have sold hundreds of them (well the other version with Infrared) to prisons all over south/central america just recently.

Just remember (Im used to testing cameras), if it does not suite the application, you can always sell it ... ive done that more than once, and actually made money off it! Heck I would even buy it to test it out :-)

also, Panasonic has one of the Best Domes out, Wide Dynamic True Day Night, not the best looking, but Im gettting one for the night club here for the front door entrance as there are back lighting issues, approx $490 dealer/spytown cost.

l can get the nuvico dvr for 2400.00 with 400 gig hd and built in cdrw.l would be paying around 3300 for something comparable l think.

Itsa good price
Rory

just saw this one, is this the one then?
http://www.nuvico.com/product/detail.html?product_id=43

Not bad, let us know how it goes
If you get a link to download the full remote software please pass on some screen shots, their web site doesnt have any.

Thanks
Rory

yes, thats the one, will it give me what l want for 8 camera system with expandability,to watch a bar approx 60 x20 ft and to record from 3-4 cameras at 20 fps during peak buisiness hours ie 10-2.00am and the rest on motion detect??what do you think of the file size ? very small ,maybe its very good image compression,what do you think??

Small files, probably thats in low res, though still its small.

Rory

sf1964 or anyone else who has used this camera:
KG-190EX Weatherproof B&W 0.003 LUX Starlight Camera
http://www.cctvwholesalers.com/customer/product.php?productid=16155&cat=253

Is this camera any good? Does it live up to it's specs?

Who makes this camera?

sf1964, your probably long gone, this is a very old post. Hopefully somebody else will know something about this camera if your not around anymore.


Thanks

jasper,its worth about what you pay for!!depends on your use etc.l used it for a bar and niteclub setting with different types of lights and lighting, l ended up buying better quality vari focal lenses,although it was an adequate camera!!

I am also installing a system in a Bar. I was wondering if you stuck with black and white cameras? What cameras do you end up with? Are you happy with them? Did you try using any color camera’s?

Also I was wondering if you ended up running RG59 or using that thin Siamese wire that I saw referred to in previous posts. If you did use that thin wire, what were your results?

I have not finalized my camera selections at this time. I am thinking 1 bullet camera and several domes in places where people could reach the cameras. Also that thin wire looks easy to run, but after seeing other posts I wonder if there would be a quality loss?

Thanks, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

RG59 would be the thinest you would want to use, really for interference issues as well as others.

I think this is 1000ft.

http://www.lowvoltagewire.com/product.asp?itemid=135&catid=32

Is this good Cable and Price?

yes thats similar to what i use, but in white. Much neater than the all in one jacket. The white is neater for retail or places with white ceilings / camera placement locations.

Good price for 1000'.

l am using a nuvico xg 16 cam dvr and a combination of b/w bullet and colour dome and panasonic box colour camera, for different light areas,ie dark areas b/w and more light areas l try dome.

that west penn Siamese Cable you showed 2815B , is not WHITE , the color is actually GRAY. Only comes that way - GRAY.

I have some of the white cable sitting right here :-)))
Dont know if its the same make, but it sure is the same type.

its not WEST PENN if it is in WHITE. could look similar, but WEST PENN only make its in GRAY.

It may not be, but its the best cable ive seen and used, high quality and best for retail due to it being white.

It may be the Coleman cable. That is the main brand we sell for Siamese. Excellent quality. available in balck or white.

it will work BUT it is not good stuff. it is more vunerable to noise, interferance, and can stretch/break easily. along time ago I started out with that thin stuff and ended up repulling all of it.........lesson learned was spend the money on a reel of siamese RG, buy connectors, and a crimper and do it right the first time. Also, the thin stuff will most likely have a higher signal loss/voltage drop because it is thin wire guage. 50ft. is not a a long shot but I never install it again. The ONLY time I use it is when I need to hang a camera quick for serucity reasons, and then I run it on the floor, over counters, and hallways until I get time to go in and run the RG.

it will work but it will get ya sooner or later. There is a reason why us installers DON't buy it/use it.

I was under the impression that it was the thicker shielded stuff. I saw some West Penn wire that was the thicker shielded stuff and thought this was what I was getting. Alas I was wrong.

I will probably install it just to see how it works out as it is not that difficult of a job. Pretty much straight shot in the attic with a fairly good amount of clearance to work in. If it doesn’t work out I will much more careful in making sure I get the right cabling.

I have had so many delays on this job that I can’t spend anymore time waiting for parts, etc.

That Siamese cable I got is really thin. The wires in that cable for power and video are still smaller in diameter the regular sized cable.

As long as I don’t have to pull this wire through any tight spots I should be ok. I have a 100ft length of it and it works great laying on my floor, but when it gets in the attic of a Bar that could be a different matter.

I hope I don’t have interference problems with this stuff and have to rerun the better cable.

sounds like the cheap stuff. it will work but eventually give you rpoblems.

Why will it eventually give me problems?

I don’t want to run it if that is the case.

I have 2-3 50ft lengths to run and 1 100ft length.

It works fine lying on my house floor.

Of course there is nothing near it to cause problems.

I don’t want to use this stuff if there will be shielding issues.

I thought if I stayed at least a foot away from electrical I would be OK?

After testing the thin Siamese cable I have decided not to install it.

It is too thin. This stuff is not suitable for pulling, unless it doesn’t get stuck on anything. :cry:

The cable is very rubbery and will get caught on things very easily.

The package it came in did not list the gauge of power wire, 24AVG?

Unless somebody else has some recommendations I think I am going to go with this stuff:
http://www.lowvoltagewire.com/product.asp?itemid=135&catid=32

get it in white (neater) if the area is not covert, black jacket for covert.

Earlier in this post SpyTown said the West Penn cable didn’t come in white or black.

That is the two colors I would use the most.

Do you have a link to some white and black cable with similar specs or better?

What about this Coleman cable SpyTown mentioned?

The weird part is I just clicked on a link earlier in the thread and it took me to their website which shows that same cable in black? :?

Which is better; West Penn or Coleman's siamese cable?