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Balun questions
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| cocacola |
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Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:40 am
Post subject: Balun questions
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Hi all,
I have a view questions about baluns (passive)
My situation:
I want to hang a PTZ (Pan Tilt Zoom) capabilites.">fixed camera dome outside, and use cat5 and also run power tru the cat5.
Baluns Can the stand cold well?
I have some camera's whit 20/30 cm of wire already on them)
See picture:
Can i just tape them in and hang them outside ?
If i want to put the balum inside of the dome (there is space for it) i have to cut the original cables 
From the Camera come 3 little wires, red, black and yellow.
Witch wire di i have to connect to the balum?
( i thing yellow on balun - red on balun + black on just a wire from cat 5?)
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| cocacola |
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Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:39 pm
Post subject:
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Question:
I see the Cat 5 wire has 4 pars of wires:
blue/withe
brown/withe
orange/withe
green/withe
It seems that:
brown/wite and orange/withe are more twisted than blue/withe and green/withe
Is that correct?
Do i have to use the blue/white?
On the balun stands a + and a -
Must i put blue on _ and white on -?
Can i put 12 volt on the brown/white? pair or i use the white from the blue pair also for negative power?
See picture.
See the + & - what wire must be on them?
Deliverance in twist of the wires.
Deliverance in twist of the wires part 2
Connected white on - and blue om +
Connected second balum and pun - on white and + on blue.
Can i run 12 volt of power on one of the other pairs? orange for example?
This are the cams that i want to use outside:
12 volts cams.
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| UMDRanger |
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Posts: 270
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:59 am
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All four pairs are identical for the twist rate, so any of them will carry the video.
The company I worked for used blue/white and green/white as our video, and orange/white and brown/white for power respectively.
Just be sure the blue is on the positive terminal on both baluns, likewise for negative.
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| Smit9352 |
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Posts: 248
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:20 am
Post subject:
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| UMDRanger wrote: |
All four pairs are identical for the twist rate, so any of them will carry the video.
The company I worked for used blue/white and green/white as our video, and orange/white and brown/white for power respectively.
Just be sure the blue is on the positive terminal on both baluns, likewise for negative. |
This is the same information that was told to him in his previous post concerning the same thing with the same pictures . Maybe he didn't read that post, anyways here goes again.
Just like UMD said, you can use any colors you would like for whatever you would like them to be as long as the colors match on the other end.
Blue = Video at the camera end then Blue = Video at the DVR end as well.
Green = Positive Power at the camera then at your power supply Green = Positive Post
This is all you have to worry about.
Thanks,
John
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| C7 in CA |
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Posts: 714
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Location: Nor*Cal
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 am
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I don't think it matters in this application but, Actually there is a difference in twist rate. It is designed to reduce cross talk.
My tester shows the length of each pair in the cable and the tighter the twist the longer the pair. But no worries, it is only a matter of inches over the length of a typical run.
_________________
Scott
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| UMDRanger |
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Posts: 270
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:34 am
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Thank you for the correction. Learn something new everyday.
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| C7 in CA |
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Posts: 714
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Location: Nor*Cal
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:39 pm
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Glad I could help. I too learn something everytime I read the forums.
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Scott
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| cachecreekcctv |
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Posts: 366
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: California (Northern)
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:14 am
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I believe that Category 5 is 5 twists per inch of cable, and Category 6 is 6 twists per inch. Should be same inside cable, regardless of color pairs.
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| C7 in CA |
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Posts: 714
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Location: Nor*Cal
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:06 pm
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That number of twists per inch could be right. I've never heard that before. But it must be the minimum number of twists per inch or something. And if you look close at the first picture of twisted pair in this thread you can actually tell that the Orange and Brown pairs are twisted tighter then the Green and Blue pairs. And the Green pair is twisted tighter then the Blue.
I don't know a lot about the electrical engineering aspect of twisted pair But as a voice/data guy I've punched down a lot of Cat5 in the last 10 years and as long as I can remember the twist rate has varied.
_________________
Scott
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| scorpion |
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Posts: 2704
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne Florida
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:58 pm
Post subject:
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The following has been stolen, plagurized, and used without written permission from:
http://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.aspx
also see:
http://www.lanshack.com/make-cat5E.aspx
____________________________________________________________
Definitions and Information
Category 5 Cable (UTP) (Unshielded Twisted Pair)
A multipair (usually 4 pair) high performance cable that consists of twisted pair conductors, used mainly for data transmission. Note: The twisting of the pairs gives the cable a certain amount of immunity from the infiltration of unwanted interference. category-5 UTP cabling systems are by far, the most common (compared to SCTP) in the United States. Basic cat 5 cable was designed for characteristics of up to 100 MHz. Category 5 cable is typically used for Ethernet networks running at 10 or 100 Mbps.
Category 5 E Cable (enhanced)
Same as Category 5, except that it is made to somewhat more stringent standards (see comparison chart below). The Category 5 E standard is now officially part of the 568A standard. Category 5 E is recommended for all new installations, and was designed for transmission speeds of up to 1 gigabit per second (Gigabit Ethernet).
Category 6
Same as Category 5 E, except that it is made to a higher standard. The Category 6 standard is now officially part of the 568A standard.
Category 7
Same as Category 6, except that it is made to a higher standard (see comparison chart below). The Category 7 standard is still in the works (as of this writing) and is not yet part of the 568A standard. One major difference with category 7's construction (as compared with category 5, 5 E, and 6) is that all 4 pairs are individually shielded, and an overall shield enwraps all four pairs. Category 7 will use an entirely new connector (other than the familiar RJ-45).
Category 5 Cable (SCTP) (Screened Twisted Pair)
Same as above, except that the twisted pairs are given additional protection from unwanted interference by an overall shield. There is some controversy concerning which is the better system (UTP or SCTP). Category 5 SCTP cabling systems require all components to maintain the shield, and are used almost exclusively in European countries.
Category 5E, RJ45 jack (Work Area Outlet)
An 8 conductor, compact, modular, female jack that is used to terminate category-5E cable at the user (or other) location. The jack is specifically engineered to maintain the performance of cat 5E cabling.
Category 5E Patch Panel A Category 5E Patch Panel is basically just a series of many category-5E jacks, condensed onto a single panel. Common panel configurations are 12, 24, 48, and 96 ports. Patch panels are typically used where all of the horizontal cable sections meet, and are used to connect the segments to the Network Hub.
Category 5E Patch Cable
A Category 5E Patch Cable consists a length of cat 5E cable with an RJ-45 male connector, crimped onto each end. The cable assembly is used to provide connectivity between any two category-5E female outlets (jacks). The two most common are from hub to patch panel, and work area outlet (jack) to the computer.
EIA/TIA 568A Standard
This standard was published in July of 1991. The purpose of EIA/TIA 568A, was to create a multiproduct, multivendor, standard for connectivity. Prior to the adoption of this standard, many "proprietary" cabling systems existed. This was very bad for the consumer. Among other things, the standard set the minimum requirements for category 5E cable and hardware. The 568 "standard" is not to be confused with 568A or 568B wiring schemes, which are themselves, part of the "568A standard".
568A and 568B Wiring Schemes
When we refer to a jack or a patch panel's wiring connection, we refer to either the 568A, or 568B wiring scheme, which dictates the pin assignments to the pairs of cat 5E cable. It is very important to note that there is no difference, whatsoever, between the two wiring schemes, in connectivity or performance when connected form one modular device to another (jack to Patch panel, RJ-45 to RJ-45, etc.), so long as they (the two devices) are wired for the same scheme (A or B). The only time when one scheme has an advantage over the other, is when one end of a segment is connected to a modular device, and the other end to a punch block. In which case, the 568A has the advantage of having a more natural progression of pairs at the punch block side. More on 568 A&B later on.
Four Pairs
Pair 1: White / Blue Pair
Pair 2: White / Orange
Pair 3: White / Green
Pair 4: White / Brown
Wiremap
This is the most basic test that can be performed on a category-5E segment. Wiremap tests for the basic continuity between the two devices. In 568A or B, all eight pins of each device should be wired straight through (1 to 1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3, etc.). A wiremap (continuity) test, should also test for absence of shorts, grounding, and external voltage.
Crosstalk
Crosstalk is the "bleeding" of signals carried by one pair, onto another pair through the electrical process of induction (wires need not make contact, signals transferred magnetically). This is an unwanted effect, that can cause slow transfer, or completely inhibit the transfer of data signals over the cable segment. The purpose of the wire twists, in category 5E cable is to significantly reduce the crosstalk, and it's effects. Two types are: NEXT (Near End Crosstalk), and FEXT (Far End Crosstalk). Fiber Optic cable is the only medium that is 100% immune to the effects of crosstalk.
Ambient Noise or Electromagnetic Interference (EMI)
Similar to crosstalk, in that it is an unwanted signal that is induced into the cable. The difference is that ambient noise (or EMI) is typically induced from a source that is external to the cable. This could be an electrical cable or device, or even an adjacent category 5E cable.
Attenuation
Attenuation is the loss of signal in a cable segment due to the resistance of the wire plus other electrical factors that cause additional resistance (Impedance and Capacitance for example). A longer cable length, poor connections, bad insulation, a high level of crosstalk, or ambient noise, will all increase the total level of attenuation. The 568A standard, specifies the maximum amount of attenuation that is acceptable in a category-5E cable segment.
Notes and Explanations for Do's and Don'ts
Think of a category 5E cable segment as an extension cord to extend a network hub port to a remote location. Since we do not permanently connect it to a live source, and all of the segments are wired "straight through", that is basically what it is (a data extension cord). If all of the computers and devices were located reasonably close to the hub, we would be able to connect them to the hub directly, with patch cables. In most cases, this would not be practical, so we install cable segments to distribute the hub ports to the remote locations in an organized manner.
Ideally, the data extension cord that we install, should smoothly pass the data, from one end to another without altering, the signal (transmitted from device to device) in any way. Consider this fact to be Rule #1, and is perhaps the most important statement that we can make. There are many very technical issues concerning UTP cabling. No matter how technical, these issues all boil down to that one simple fact. You would probably need an Electrical engineering degree to fully understand all of the theories that go into transmitting data over UTP cabling. All that you need to know as an installer is a few simple facts, or do's and don'ts. It is really no more complicated than that. Almost all of the rules (do's and don'ts) above, are designed to adhere to Rule #1. The others are necessary to promote a neat, orderly, safe and professional installation.
I strongly recommend that anyone who installs cabling, takes the rules very seriously. An ill planned, or poorly installed cable plant, can easily become a nightmare in the future. Please also be aware that the faster the data speed, the more important the rules become. Many poorly done installations can run 10 megabits with ease. They may very well, run into trouble, when they upgrade to higher data speeds.
For more info see the two links that I have posted, and also see
http://scorpiontheater.com/videonetworkingwithavtech.aspx
_________________
Scorpion
http://scorpiontheater.com/troubleshooting.aspx
http://covertsafes.com
QUESTION: Why is there always enough time to go back and fix it right a second time??
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| cocacola |
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Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:06 am
Post subject:
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| C7 in CA wrote: |
That number of twists per inch could be right. I've never heard that before. But it must be the minimum number of twists per inch or something. And if you look close at the first picture of twisted pair in this thread you can actually tell that the Orange and Brown pairs are twisted tighter then the Green and Blue pairs. And the Green pair is twisted tighter then the Blue.
I don't know a lot about the electrical engineering aspect of twisted pair But as a voice/data guy I've punched down a lot of Cat5 in the last 10 years and as long as I can remember the twist rate has varied. |
Well i stripped down some cat 5 and cat 6 canbles, all blue/bluw white have a twist diverance.
Can i use Cat 6 as well whit my baluns?
I have a 4 boxes of Cat 6 , and only a view meters of cat 5.
So i do not have to buy new boxes whit cat5.
Will this work to?
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| C7 in CA |
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Posts: 714
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Location: Nor*Cal
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:10 pm
Post subject:
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Sure, You can use Cat6
_________________
Scott
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| cocacola |
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Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:39 pm
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Ok, the Cat 6+baluns works great!
Use one cat 6 cable 30 meters or 100 feet, for 2 new mid budget outdoor camera's, and run the power true them to!
I specially like that green grass is not brown in the picture and red cars not orange, this camera's give a nice snappy picture, whit tru colors.
tomorrow i whil upgrade the dvr whit a nice IR cam using a Siamese cable.
I want u use this siamese coax cabel be corse of the power drain i read a lot of people have trouble whit @t cat 5/6
I will put a picture of this tomorrow to.
I notice that the AVtech DVR is not that good whit online viewing, bad block picture...so i need a new budget DVR
Wire plan for the two cams i installed today:
Blue white for video cam 1
Orange white for video cam 2
Brown white twisted to gather for negative -
Green white twisted to ether for positive +
Now whit a 12 vlot 500mA power suppl.
(upgrade it tomorrow to 13.8 v 2000mA power supl.)
Great picture!
[/b]
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| Lolo Wolf |
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Posts: 419
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Location: Northwest Montana
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:34 pm
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Noticed you didnt use outdoor rated Cat...might want to consider running some conduit up to that box as well (unless that is temp)...may want to use gel-filled connector in place of that screw block too, better contact, also good idea to use your side entry knockouts to your cams than the top....form a drip loop .... glad your cameras are working well for you.
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| cocacola |
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Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 pm
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| Lolo Wolf wrote: |
| Noticed you didnt use outdoor rated Cat...might want to consider running some conduit up to that box as well (unless that is temp)...may want to use gel-filled connector in place of that screw block too, better contact, also good idea to use your side entry knockouts to your cams than the top....form a drip loop .... glad your cameras are working well for you. |
Hi,
Yes, a pipe is gonna be installed tomorrow 
The box is a 220volt outdoor type, but i have the special gel in case is see some "condense" than is will fill it up.
Is a box like this ok you think?
| Quote: |
| also good idea to use your side entry knockouts to your cams than the top.... |
Can you enplane what you meen? I am not that good in Englishes, i just don't get it 
Got it! Good idee! I Will do this, thanks for the tip!
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