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24v AC power affect a 12v DC camera? Sanyo power?
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| Bam_Bam_of_Atlanta |
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Posts: 10
Joined: 07 May 2008
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:36 pm
Post subject: 24v AC power affect a 12v DC camera? Sanyo power?
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I am installing 2 cameras with cable running about 40’ together. One has a 24v AC power supply and the other has 12v DC.
Can the AC create problems on the DC circuit?
I have seen articles say to keep it from the 120v and 240v AC lines. I just did not know if 24v AC could mess it up. That is about 5 times less poer.
It has to go threw a wall together for about 9’, but after that I can with “more” work run them separate.
If you need to know, the cable is USA made RG6 Quad shielded coaxial.
Also the 24v AC powered Sanyo VCC9624 camera manual says to ONLY use a Sanyo 24v AC power supply! Can they be serious? Since there is only one 24v camera, I simply got a HomeDepot doorbell/HVAC transformer and then read the manual. Lol!
The last time I checked, 24 volts was 24 volts.
AC was AC
And 60hz was 60hz.
Can there really be a SANYO power? You know what I am thinking; they just want me to buy their power supply. But theirs may have some filters to keep spikes out or something.
Thanks
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| scorpion |
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Posts: 2718
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne Florida
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:04 am
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| Bam_Bam_of_Atlanta |
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Posts: 10
Joined: 07 May 2008
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:13 am
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Warranty?
It is brand new in the box off E-bay. It list about $450 and went for about $40. I don't think it will have a warranty. You do have a point even with sarcasm. I will check the box for a warranty card.
I don’t normally bug one of our engineers on personal stuff, so that is why I went here first. But 3 cubes down is a principle EE engineer. He laughed and said 24v A/C 60hz is 24v A/C 60hz. He said they just want your money. His job is quality control on electrical utility distribution. That means getting 240/120v A/C 60hz to our outlets.
That just leaves the question of running a 24v A/C line with a 12v DC line. The engineer does not work on sensitive electronic equipment to know much about 24v AC next to 12v DC. Unfortunately I have to go from one end of the house to the other 90 degrees to all the rafters. There is a gas main that “may” have room for it. Other wise it will be a lot of work drilling all those 2X10 rafters and maybe twice if I separate the 2 runs.
I thought that if the two cables can run beside the gas main, I may be able to tie wrap them on opposite sides so that the gas main may shield it. Though it may act like the core of a transformer and amplify it. Ummm … Electrons have their ways.
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| scorpion |
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Posts: 2718
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne Florida
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:41 am
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I apologize for the sarcasm as I only meant to play the "Devil's Advocate".
I did write it that way, but it was more intended for the readers of the thread who do not have your expertise. I would not want some one to end up with a voided warranty because of some stupid fine print.
I know it may not be the case for you, but I in the past have had electronic devices that would lose a warranty for using "other" parts.
Like you say, but in my case. What is the difference between one resistor, and one from another source?
Like you say, they just want your money!
Which reminds me to check my oil, or I lose my 100,000 warranty!
You make some good points in your thread!
Oh, and yes, congradulations on your price!!!
_________________
Scorpion
http://scorpiontheater.com/troubleshooting.aspx
http://covertsafes.com
QUESTION: Why is there always enough time to go back and fix it right a second time??
Last edited by scorpion on Thu May 08, 2008 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| Scruit |
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Posts: 448
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 24v AC power affect a 12v DC camera? Sanyo power?
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| Bam_Bam_of_Atlanta wrote: |
Can the AC create problems on the DC circuit?
I have seen articles say to keep it from the 120v and 240v AC lines. I just did not know if 24v AC could mess it up. That is about 5 times less poer.
It has to go threw a wall together for about 9’, but after that I can with “more” work run them separate.
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I'm not an expert, just a home user...
I have a camera in a heated enclosure on the front of my house. I ran a 4-wire 20awg 'ribbon' cable to the camera - one pair is the 12v for the camera and IR illuminator, and the other pair is the 24v for the heater/fan. I do not get any interferance at all. The 12v & 24v run parallel for about 20', through the wall and down the same conduit to the enclosure.
Just don't mix them up when you connect them! My ribbon cable is black/red/green/white. I use red for 12+, black for 12v -, and the green and white are the 24v. Makes it easier to remember becuase red and black are pretty standard for 12v, and 24v has no 'polarity'.
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Scruit
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| Bam_Bam_of_Atlanta |
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Posts: 10
Joined: 07 May 2008
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:15 pm
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Don't worry about it. I use sarcasim too at times.
I was shocked I got it at that price. Sometimes I throw a low bid on something for fun and/or to keep track of it. This was the first and only time that I actually won doing such.
The rest of the cameras are no name, made in Tiawan. But they are all thick heavy well machined metal case ones wtih glass lenses. There is nothing plastic about them. I looked and looked and you see no names, P/Ns, S/Ns or anything on the boxes and cameras. Video looks pretty good. Way better than my 1 cheap plastic one.
I have a Canon High8 that wore out the tape drive. The quality and low light leval abilities are great on it. It sees way better than the human eye. It looks a bit funny set at low light. I think it drops way back on the 30fps to boost the quality & brightess in trade for a jerky motion. I will have to research using Camcorders on this forum. I can think of no down side.
Time will tell in the next week on how it performs. I did a test run with everything on the table.
I'm just glad there are forums like this for issues not in the "101 how too" on the internet.
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| scorpion |
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Posts: 2718
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne Florida
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:58 pm
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Great! Since sarcasm is allowed!!
| Quote: |
His job is quality control on electrical utility distribution. That means getting 240/120v A/C 60hz to our outlets.
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We call them electricians around here!
Sorry!
I could not resist!
_________________
Scorpion
http://scorpiontheater.com/troubleshooting.aspx
http://covertsafes.com
QUESTION: Why is there always enough time to go back and fix it right a second time??
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| Bam_Bam_of_Atlanta |
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Posts: 10
Joined: 07 May 2008
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:30 pm
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Thanks Scruit.
I think I will roll the dice and see.
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| CCTV_Suppliers |
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Posts: 665
Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:24 pm
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No Sanyo power supplies...  They do not even make them, rather OEM anyway.
There are quite of few manufacturers. You can get 40VA or 50VA 24VAC transformers for around $10.00 and that will me more than what you need for these cameras...
My choice goes with either Altronix or Amseco... I personally prefer Amseco, as it comes with built in resettable switch...
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| 3RDIGLBL |
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Posts: 112
Joined: 27 May 2008
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: 24v AC power affect a 12v DC camera? Sanyo power?
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[quote="Scruitone pair is the 12v for the camera and IR illuminator, and the other pair is the 24v for the heater/fan. [/quote]
Could always purchase a 12V Heater/Blower enclosure. I use them all the time because it stinks to run two separate wires for each type of power. Not bad really if it is 24VAC as you could buy an AC/DC converter for a 12V camera, usually around $10 - $12 depending where you get it from.
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| Kiwi |
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Posts: 250
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:31 pm
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There are no electrical engineering reasons to concern yourself with power wires running next to each other.
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Arecont 3130 (outdoor webcam)
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| woodyads |
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Posts: 84
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:13 pm
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Yes AC is not AC. there is all kinds of dirt you can get in power and different quality power supplies that can filter out spikes etc. The DC if converted from AC won't be clean power either. (different if run from batteries like in a remote solar location) So the DC power can be made dirtier if run next to an AC cable.
The effects of dirty DC power.
Computer components. Gates Ramdacs and Memory are effected if they don't get clean DC power. If they can't pick up a clean signal from where the Clock switches from 5v to 0v then they can fail to synchronise filling their bit registers with data split from two different time cycles. The most vulnerable devices tend to be the those with the fastest clock synchronisation, In a computer this tends to be the video card ram. So the video card fails to boot and the whole computer fails. Due to the massive power fluctuations at start-up time in any electronic device dirty power is most likely to effect the device at start-up and the device is more resilient to dirty power once running. You here of old stories of servers that ran for years then when they moved the server room the server failed. The fact is the device that failed was u.s. ager ago but needed the reboot to fail.
So if your camera is running then it will probably be ok from the internal processing side. The only other thing the dirty power can effect is analogue signals so if the video looks ok then it is. The only floor in this statement is after time running components loose their resilience to dirty power so one day it might not boot because of power problems and you will blame the camera.
The one last thing that AC power can effect is any RS232 or similar data cable. Ethernet etc you can get shielded cat 5 and 6 but finding the patch pannels is painfull.
Finally current creates EMF which creates the magnetic field that induces itself on nearby cables. Not voltage. Low voltage can create a strong current its the over all current that matters.
For those who are not bored yet keep reading.
Here is a scenario I had years ago. We built a bitching workstation for Post Production video cost about $60 it had 7 PCI cards in it. As you put more devices into a computer the total capacitance sucks the guts out of the clock signal. The signal should look like a square but it turns into a sign wave. It should be +5 volts or 0 volts nothing in-between. As the signal definition becomes weaker the components are trying to decide if 2.5v is 0 or 5 volts and different components take different sides. The video card failed and the system doesn't boot. You use a post code card which tells you the system freezes at the video card. Swap the video card with an identical one working in another machine and it doesn't fix the problem. So you start pulling the other cards out and it boots. Your immediate response is the video card is ok and its another card to blame. The real fix is replace the power supply with a cleaner power supply, replace the main board with a better designed board and change the video card to a card with better quality ram.
Hope this post wasn't too boring
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