HD-SDI Camera Install Problem

Hello All,

I’ve got an issue with an installation of an Onix 16 channel DVR with an Onix HDBX camera. This one is confounding me with an inability to get a signal so I was hoping to bounce the situation off you and see if you have any ideas. The house is existing and we have hooked up 5 HD-SDI cameras onto an Onix DVR this week.

Site Layout:

• The Camera is located at a gate about 250-300’ from the house. There are two CAT5e cables run out to that location in PVC conduit from the phone box on the side of the house. Because we have no RG6 which to use, we bought several models of passive video baluns to convert the BNC/Coax on the back of the camera to the CAT5e through an RJ45 or through just using two wires of the UTP.
  
• At the phone box we have a power source that is powering this one camera. 12V @ 1A DC transformer. (1A appears to be enough to get the Camera power light on.) It is separate from the other cameras power supplies but it works well enough. The CAT5e goes through another balun to return to RG6.
  
• From the phone box, there is a RG6 cable to the structured wiring panel at about 150-200’ of cable.
  
• In the structured wiring box, we simply tied the two RG6 cables together with a male to male connector – no splitters or other devices involved.
  
• There the signal is run to an office space where the DVR itself is located at about another 150-200’ of RG6 cable where it is plugged into the DVR.

Troubleshooting/Problem:

We first tested the camera at the phone box at the side of the house. After buying a decent CAT5e to RG6 passive balun and not a cheap model, we were able to get a good looking picture in 1080p. Everything was working. In this configuration we used the DC power supply hooked directly into the camera via the power supply’s wires.

1. When we put the camera on the gate, however, we don’t receive a picture. We did verify that we were getting sufficient power. The 500mA power supply wasn’t enough after the long length so we did two things. 1) We tied two pairs together for both wires and 2) we upped the power supply to 1A. This caused the camera’s light to stay solid on instead of blink.
   
2. So we did a conductivity check of both CAT5e wires. Everything was good.
   
3. We then got rid of the CAT5e balun and went with a two wire balun. That also didn’t solve the problem.
   
4. We pulled the power off the same CAT5e and put it on a separate CAT5e. Power was good. No video.
   
5. The next step was to double up the UTP cables for the video signal to use two wires each in order to reduce the resistance over the line. We keep doing that until 4 wires were being used for the positive and negative. This also didn’t solve the lack of video.

Ideas for Solution:

My gut tells me we have a wire length issue with too many times the video changes cable types. What do you think? I think I isolated the problem to the last run – from the phone box to the gate - but if anyone else can think of something to change/verify on what is currently installed on the property, please speak up.

So I’m stuck with a couple options as I see it. The home owners want the camera but we don’t want to trench to put a new RG6 in the ground. There isn’t a way to pull the RG6 through the existing conduit.

1. Downgrade the camera. Would downgrading to a lower quality camera (not HD-SDI) give us a better chance of getting a good video signal?
   
2. Change camera types. Instead of using baluns and connectors which each add resistance … why not use an IP camera? We’d have to be able to run POE in either the DVR room or the phone box as there is no power at the gate.
   
3. Would POE work over 300’? Over 400’?
   
4. When do you need a repeater (aka network switch)?
   
5. Can an IP camera be converted to a Coax/BNC signal for the DVR?
   
6. Add a direct line from the phone box to the DVR and save about 200’ of wire.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

Just a couple of things that kind of stick out.

Even though the power led is lit, is it possible you're getting alot of drop?

Can the camera be powered over 24vac? Maybe try that. You can even use a 28vac power supply to push it.

It just seems odd that it worked until the camera was actually mounted. Assuming you tested it from one end of the wire to the other.

I also would try a 2A or better psu. Have you tried bringing the psu right to it with an extension cord or using an alarm battery?

We did a continuity check on the wires to the gate and everything was good. I didn't have an ohm meter to test the actual voltage at the camera. Will the 24VAC make that big a difference? Also will having the AC current in the same conduit as the video line cause any additional interference?

Hi.

HD-SDI WITH CAT5 and baluns ..???

And boosters would also be needed for that distance

There are converters to go cat5 but they need power and that would also need a trench to gate.

If the gate camera is the only cable route problem then use your cat5 to run and power a standard analog camera and convert to HD-SDI at dvr

Hi.

 

HD-SDI WITH CAT5 and baluns ..???

 

And boosters would also be needed for that distance

 

There are converters to go cat5 but they need power and that would also need a trench to gate.

 

If the gate camera is the only cable route problem then use your cat5 to run and power a standard analog camera and convert to HD-SDI at dvr

Tom,

The home owner doesn't want to trench for obvious reasons. At that distance, it will be a pretty penny. I'd like to come up with a solution which uses the existing CAT5e lines. Do you believe the IP Camera would be a better route?

The Baluns we used on the HD-SDI are these: http://muxlab.com/product?product=hd-sdi-balun&pid=876 According to the info I got, they should work with HD-SDI over CAT5e. Is this bad info?

Thanks!

HD-SDI system is designed for RG59 cable or better, not designed for Cat5e.

HD-SDI is based on Very High Speed of Gigabit transmission technology, very sensitive to cable conditions. HD-SDI may work for short distance with Cat5e. But may not for a longer distance. The longer the cable, the higher the capacitance associated with the cable. It is the capacitance that degrades the signal quality during transmission, eating up high frequency component of the signal. The simple passive baluns would not work.

Hi.

 

HD-SDI WITH CAT5 and baluns ..???

 

And boosters would also be needed for that distance

 

There are converters to go cat5 but they need power and that would also need a trench to gate.

 

If the gate camera is the only cable route problem then use your cat5 to run and power a standard analog camera and convert to HD-SDI at dvr

 

Tom,

 

The home owner doesn't want to trench for obvious reasons. At that distance, it will be a pretty penny. I'd like to come up with a solution which uses the existing CAT5e lines. Do you believe the IP Camera would be a better route?

 

The Baluns we used on the HD-SDI are these: http://muxlab.com/product?product=hd-sdi-balun&pid=876 According to the info I got, they should work with HD-SDI over CAT5e. Is this bad info?

 

Thanks!

Hi. IP and HD-SDI both have the same cable length limitations

With the distance you need you would need to re boost the signal halfway down cable run .... So would still have to dig.

But if you can't dig then a standard cctv camera at gate would have no problem connected to the existing cat 5 and then convert the signal at dvr end to HD SDI