Looking for a CCTV system upto 64 cameras

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help with this please. I'm looking for a CCTV system for a new store and i'll need approx 58 cameras, (54 indoor, 4 outdoor) the indoor count may change slightly later as the internal structure of the building may change a bit but this is a pretty accurate estimate. So I was thinking of a 64 camera system but I dont seem to be able to find anything this large, I have only ever fitted the basic off-the-shelf 4-8 camera kits so this is quite new to me.

I'd like them to be able to do all the typical things - nothing special, Viewable via the internet etc, record upto 2 weeks of video and preferably just the 1 DVR box maybe with multiple HDD bays if such thing exists, also HD as all images need to be crystal clear and the 4 outdoor cameras would need to be able to 'see' at night so the enterances are covered in the dark.

Please can anyone offer any help on the subject?

I have googled around but the most I seem to be able to find are 16 camera kits, I have contacted a couple of companies telling me I'd basically need 4x 16 cam kits to get what I want but this would require 4 logins to view them remotely which I don't really want. I also contacted swann direct and they said the same thing.

Thanks

Hi,

 

I'm hoping someone can help with this please. I'm looking for a CCTV system for a new store and i'll need approx 58 cameras, (54 indoor, 4 outdoor) the indoor count may change slightly later as the internal structure of the building may change a bit but this is a pretty accurate estimate. So I was thinking of a 64 camera system but I dont seem to be able to find anything this large, I have only ever fitted the basic off-the-shelf 4-8 camera kits so this is quite new to me.

 

I'd like them to be able to do all the typical things - nothing special, Viewable via the internet etc, record upto 2 weeks of video and preferably just the 1 DVR box maybe with multiple HDD bays if such thing exists, also HD as all images need to be crystal clear and the 4 outdoor cameras would need to be able to 'see' at night so the enterances are covered in the dark.

 

Please can anyone offer any help on the subject?

 

I have googled around but the most I seem to be able to find are 16 camera kits, I have contacted a couple of companies telling me I'd basically need 4x 16 cam kits to get what I want but this would require 4 logins to view them remotely which I don't really want. I also contacted swann direct and they said the same thing.

 

Thanks

You wont find a 64 camera kit. For that sort of setup you will need to source the NVR, POE routers, Camera's and cables separately. Both Hikvision and Dahua make 64 channel NVR's.

Alternatively you can go PC based.

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. So if I'm correct the NVR is instead of a DVR which essentially functions the same except I will connect a Powered Ethernet Switch which inturn will be connected to my IP cameras via ethernet cables?

So if I'm not mistaken I have found the following equipment which I think is suitable, please could you take a look to see if i'm on the right track?

1) NVR = http://www.cctvempire.co.uk/DVR-NVR/Hikvision-NVR-Enterprise/DS-9664NI-RT

I noticed there is a non raid version, I guess it wouldn't matter which 1 I got would it?

It also says it has dual gigabit network interfaces so this means i'd be able to conenct 2 switches correct?

2) Powered switch = http://www.ebuyer.com/263122-tp-link-tl-sf1048-switch-48-x-10-100-rack-mountable-tl-sf1048

3) Cameras = http://www.cctvempire.co.uk/CCTV-Cameras/Hikvision-CCTV-Network-IP-Cameras/DS-2CD2122F-I

These cams are powered over ethernet, so I guess this means it will just connect to the switch via an ethernet cable, the spec seems fine but I will probably shop around for other alternative cameras aswell. Also is theretypically a limit on the length of the ethernet cable which is supported by the cameras?

Does this setup seem correct for my needs would you say? or is there anything else I have missed that you think ill need (except for the ethernet cable)

Also you mensioned about going PC based, I assume this means just replacing the NVR in the setup with a PC running some software? Would this have many advantages over using an NVR other than price?

Thanks for your time

Aaron

Hi,

 

Thanks for the advice. So if I'm correct the NVR is instead of a DVR which essentially functions the same except I will connect a Powered Ethernet Switch which inturn will be connected to my IP cameras via ethernet cables?

 

So if I'm not mistaken I have found the following equipment which I think is suitable, please could you take a look to see if i'm on the right track?

 

1) NVR = http://www.cctvempire.co.uk/DVR-NVR/Hikvision-NVR-Enterprise/DS-9664NI-RT

Don't buy it from there.

Hikvision NVR DS-9664NI-RT - Please note this particular unit is ordered in and has a lead time of around 5weeks from order to delivery, they are also built to order and refunds will only be accepted if the unit is faulty with 7 days of delivery.

Anyone who takes five weeks to get stock in and then only warrants it for week is not worth doing business with.

The maximum bandwidth on that model is only 160Mbs. If you use all 64 camera's you will only be able to have a maximum of 2.5Mbps coming from each camera. That means more compression and more compression means lower playback quality. That might not be an issue for you but that Dahua one I linked earlier does 384Mbps incoming bandwidth

I noticed there is a non raid version, I guess it wouldn't matter which 1 I got would it?

In my humble opinion RAID is essential for any CCTV application where loss of the footage will cause issues and that means all commercial applications. Many people recommend a redundancy level of not less than Raid 6 and your linked NVR wont do that. Raid 5 will give you some redundancy.

The other thing you need to consider is how much storage you want. The Australian and New Zealand Police recommendat least 31 days of storage. How much hard drive space you will need to achieve that depends on camera resolution, bit rate, frame rate, and hours that each camera will record.

It also says it has dual gigabit network interfaces so this means i'd be able to conenct 2 switches correct?

Correct

2) Powered switch = http://www.ebuyer.com/263122-tp-link-tl-sf1048-switch-48-x-10-100-rack-mountable-tl-sf1048

That doesn't appear to be a POE switch. With POE switches the two big things you need to be concerned about is power per port and total power budget. Make sure that you have a total power budget of more than the max draw of all the camera's you are using.

http://www.ebuyer.com/290314-trendnet-24-port-10-100mbps-web-smart-poe-switch-with-4-gigabit-ports-and-tpe-224ws

That's an example of a POE switch. they cost significantly more than your standard un-powered switch.

3) Cameras = http://www.cctvempire.co.uk/CCTV-Cameras/Hikvision-CCTV-Network-IP-Cameras/DS-2CD2122F-I

When thinking about camera's you need to think about what you want each camera to do in the setup. For example you should have a camera and lens combination that will give you at least 352 pixels per metre across your entrances to the store for ID quality shots. Same for registers, cash rooms, and items in the store that are at greatest risk of theft.

These cams are powered over ethernet, so I guess this means it will just connect to the switch via an ethernet cable, the spec seems fine but I will probably shop around for other alternative cameras aswell. Also is theretypically a limit on the length of the ethernet cable which is supported by the cameras?

All POE switches I have seen will do at least 50 metres. Many will do 100m. More than enough for a retail application

Does this setup seem correct for my needs would you say? or is there anything else I have missed that you think ill need (except for the ethernet cable)

I don't really know what your needs are beyond the stated number of cameras. What you should definitely include in your budget is a rack mounted UPS with sufficient capacity to run everything for a while if the power supply is cut or goes out. They will also protect your significant investment from surges. You can save some money here by buying second hand units and replacing the batteries.

You will also need a rack to secure it all in. Make sure it has a lockable door and is bolted down. No good having 64 cameras if the crooks steal the NVR.

You can also get significantly more bang for your buck buying NVR/cameras direct from China.

Also you mensioned about going PC based, I assume this means just replacing the NVR in the setup with a PC running some software? Would this have many advantages over using an NVR other than price?

Going PC based is not always going to be a cheaper option but you can go multi processor servers, have no real limit on the amount of storage, pick software of your choice, including software that supports things like ANPR if you require that.

Thanks for your time

No worries.

Hi,

Sorry for the late reply, I have been very busy lately.

Thanks for your reply, and here are my thoughts.

Ideally I'd like the NVR which you have suggested but i'm not looking to buy from china right now, I have found the same NVR available for purchase in the UK but it's over 4 grand without hard drives which I'm not willing to spend on this right now.

I was looking at this NVR http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIKVision-Channel-NVR-ports-12000Gb/dp/B00PLAFELE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1431704884&sr=8-5&keywords=32+channel+nvr

I was thinking maybe I'll get 2 of these with 12TB each and splitting the cameras half and half, half the cameras are on the ground floor anyway and the other half are on the second floor so 1 NVR each basically. The powered switches will live in the roof of each floor and the max estimated cable length from camera to switch will be 40 meters, and maybe 30 meters(Ish) from switch to the room which will home the NVR's.

This will keep my cost down and should eliminate the bandwidth issue would you agree? I can also get HDD's cheaper from my trade supplier.

I was also thinking of recording at 720p instead of 1080p as the quality of 720p will be perfectly fine for my needs and would lower the bandwidth requirements and save on HDD space.

I was thinking of using these cameras http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hikvision-DS-2CD2032-I-Camera-12mm-Length-White/dp/B00HWXUKH6/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A3B74O2OH3FSJB which have 12mm focal length or I was also considering these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hikvision-DS-2CD2132-I-Indoor-Outdoor-Network/dp/B00HWXV49Y/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A3B74O2OH3FSJB which have 6mm focal length but are obviously dome shaped.

and i'll probably just get the POE switch you recommended and cable length shouldn't be a problem.

Would you agree the above equipment would suffice? or is there anything else I have missed?

For the cable I'll be using this by the way http://www.netstoredirect.com/cat6-cable/296881-excel-cat6-utp-cable.html it's a high quality fire resistant solid core cable used by BT engineers which I have in stock and have made cables longer than 50meters with, so I'm pretty happy with this.

Thanks

Just a couple of small points.

The cable you have quoted is not fire resistant, it is low smoke sheath.

CAT6 is probably over the top for this application, CAT5E will suffice for the camera runs from the switch.

I would suggest that you record alternate cameras on NVR1 and NVR2 so that loss of one NVR still allows for recording in the area.

I assume that you are in the UK, so the regulation you need to abide by will be the Data Protection Act 1998. The use of the system will need to be notified to the ICO (legal requirement) and storage in excess of 31 days is unlikely to be acceptable.

Also regarding Hikvision product, check that the vendor of the kit will support you with warranty issues, firmware upgrades etc as Hikvision have formal distribution partners in most countries and grey imports may not receive the same level (or any) support.

Ilkie

Just a couple of small points.

 

The cable you have quoted is not fire resistant, it is low smoke sheath.

 

CAT6 is probably over the top for this application, CAT5E will suffice for the camera runs from the switch.

 

I would suggest that you record alternate cameras on NVR1 and NVR2 so that loss of one NVR still allows for recording in the area.

 

I assume that you are in the UK, so the regulation you need to abide by will be the Data Protection Act 1998. The use of the system will need to be notified to the ICO (legal requirement) and storage in excess of 31 days is unlikely to be acceptable.

 

Also regarding Hikvision product, check that the vendor of the kit will support you with warranty issues, firmware upgrades etc as Hikvision have formal distribution partners in most countries and grey imports may not receive the same level (or any) support.

 

 

Ilkie

Like he said, specially a system this big you want to make sure you buy from a authorized dealer that will be able to handle any problems that arrises.

But, I disagree on running CAT6, I would do it anyway.

Hi. I would not go with any system listed above .

Until you give a idea of premises your are installing on ... Private or commercial .

£4000 ($3600) for a hik NVR would be your first mistake ( available in UK from £900.

As stated cat5 is good ..... UK as of this year will have stricked restrictions on all cat cable so you need to buy which will conform to regulations ....... Don't let all that put you off ... It just means don't go buying equipment and cable from the likes of eBay or Amazon

Next question is budget ..... As you see from above I have already saved you £3000 on the NVR alone

It has already been surgested buy direct from China ??? Not for that amount of cameras ........ You will be spending weeks adding and changing firmware ( and that will be at your Cost) no support and returns will be out of your pocket.

Budget and type of install info is needed

Hi, thanks for all the advice.

It is a commercial building by the way.

My mistake about the cable, I know its low smoke not fire resistant, thats just my incorrect wording

Thats also not a bad idea about alternating cameras, I think i'll do that.

In regards to the data proetction we will notify the ICO - it's also only £35 a year if anyone wants to know, and their 'code of conduct' basically says the data can be stored for aslong as the companys needs with acceptable reason, so 14 days will be more than enough for this system.

The Hik NVR I was looking at is £765.25 + HDD's at a couple hundred quid x 2 is about what i'm looking at spending anyway on the nvr's.

I'm just checking with the supplier that the cable will be suitable and meet regulations but I already use that cable anyway for other things.

From what I can tell on paper, 2 of these

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIKVision-Channel-NVR-ports-12000Gb/dp/B00PLAFELE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1431704884&sr=8-5&keywords=32+channel+nvr

& these

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hikvision-DS-2CD2032-I-Camera-12mm-Length-White/dp/B00HWXUKH6/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A3B74O2OH3FSJB

should be ok.

Is there anything I've missed?

If I know this kit will be ok (spec wise), I'll look around for a repitable dealer who will supply warranty and software updates etc.

Thanks for all the help

Hik has no warranty from Amazon

64 cameras with no support ?.

Your in the UK forget hikvision ..... Look at dahua ..... First it's not over priced and get more for your money

Plus dahua cloud backup or monitoring

And as far as DPA .... Yes it's £35 ....... Well it's only £15 but there is more to it than that

What type of commercial ...... Is it public space ...... Bar/ club does it sell food or beer

Is it high end goods ?

Under UK regulations these things have to be answered before a system is designed ......

Hi,

The company trading on amazon have a seperate site here https://www.jmcsecure.co.uk which they provide a 12 month warranty on all products + manufacturers warranty on other selected products, so I'd buy direct from them anyway if I did use them. Is there any repitable suppliers you could recommend to get the NVR's? as i'm currently googling around for suppliers and can only go off other peoples reviews right now.

I'm happy to go dahua if this is better, again if its from a repitable supplier etc.

It's a retail store by the way, selling high-end clothing.

Thanks

Hi,

 

The company trading on amazon have a seperate site here https://www.jmcsecure.co.uk which they provide a 12 month warranty on all products + manufacturers warranty on other selected products, so I'd buy direct from them anyway if I did use them. Is there any repitable suppliers you could recommend to get the NVR's? as i'm currently googling around for suppliers and can only go off other peoples reviews right now.

 

I'm happy to go dahua if this is better, again if its from a repitable supplier etc.

 

It's a retail store by the way, selling high-end clothing.

 

Thanks

There are only 5 approved distributors for Hikvision on the UK.

see http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/distributionPartner.aspx?c_kind=43&c_kind2=45&c_kind3=53&c_kind4=276#maodian

Ilkie

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look through them, do you know who any authorized resellers are for the dahua nvr's please? I have had a look at their site but I cant seem to find them.

Thanks

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look through them, do you know who any authorized resellers are for the dahua nvr's please? I have had a look at their site but I cant seem to find them.

 

Thanks

Security Dynamics are the UK’s Official distributor for Dahua products.

Ilkie