Planet IP Cameras - Improvements?

Hi guys,

I bought a CCTV setup for my home a while ago - didn't go for the cheapest options at all, but I'm still quite disappointed with the results and I'm wondering how I can improve things and if everyone else just puts up with the poor quality.

I have 2 Planet ICA-HM312 cameras (2.0 Megapixel, 25M IR range, POE) hooked up to a Planet NVR-420 recorder.

First of all, despite these things supposedly being HD resolution the quality is pretty bad - quite pixelated and blurry. But also the frame rate will not stay constant and sometimes judders so there will be a pause in the recording for about half a second or a second. I have got them set to the following at the moment (tried various other settings but these seem to be the best):

1080P - H264 compression

EVBR bit rate with quality set to 95 and max bitrate set to 10,000

Max frame rate 10 FPS

GOP Control: 10

Yet even with just 2 cameras hooked up to this 4 camera NVR, the frame rate won't stay at 10 FPS solid. Before I upped the GOP control from 1 to 10, both cameras were only getting about 4 FPS. Oh and random annoyance - every now and then the image goes really purple/pink. Doesn't happen to both cameras at the same time and sometimes sorts itself out a few minutes later but other times lasts for days :/

So I've ordered a new Planet NVR which supports recording higher resolutions and supports 8 cameras, along with a new camera that is 5 Megapixels. I'm seriously hoping that this produces some clear images and can easily record at 10 FPS without any juddering or frame rate drops but if not, are there actually any CCTV systems that do? I don't really understand why the quality of these expensive CCTV systems seem to be so bad when you can buy a GoPro camera that films in crystal clear 1080p HD for 99 quid. The video camera on my phone is a million times clearer than this... and yes I know a phone doesn't have to stream it across a network to be recorded instantly etc, but still it seems crazy just how bad a £300 "HD" CCTV camera is.

So yeah just wondered what everyone else uses and if anyone actually gets really clear images or if it is a sad fact of life that CCTV is still about 8 years behind all other cameras.

Thanks

Chris

I can't say that I'm familiar with this camera, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it's a good camera just because of how much you paid for it.

This thing is remarkably unimpressive for the prices that I'm seeing it at.

That's unacceptable regardless of the brand. We used a lot of Mobotix, but their latest series, they just didn't work for us anymore with 3 fps in high quality mode and 6 fps in low quality mode for camera costing $199 it's bad, for one costing $1,599 it was joke. Sent them all back. If you like cameras brands from Taiwan, to me, the best is ACTi with good service and support.

I can't say that I'm familiar with this camera, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it's a good camera just because of how much you paid for it.

 

This thing is remarkably unimpressive for the prices that I'm seeing it at.

Well I did look around a lot and did some research before I bought them - I didn't just go on price. My point about the price was just that if I had gone for real cheap cameras then I couldn't really complain.

I've just been looking at the Axis cameras and Arecont cameras, both of which seem to have some really high quality example footage but I'm not sure if thats only from the mega expensive cameras and whether or not they would be suitable for a home setup (I'm sure the cameras themselves would be, but it looks like most of these high end cameras need to be hooked up to a proper workstation or rack server to record on to?)

Axis makes good cameras + good service and support, albeit they can be more expensive, figure twice what typical Taiwan companies charge. Arecont, while made here in So Cal, their service and support is disappointing but they do have some unique offerings. Surprisingly when we switched out the Mobotix, my first reaction was Axis, but the installers preferred Hikvision ds-2cd2732-is to replace Mobotix D15's and it's worked out well, now up for about a year. Yes, they are inexpensive, but it's very well made, you'll get good frame rates and image quality. I would not get their NVRs as most of these lower end NVRs are not that good. I would recommend a commercial Windows based solution like Milestone, Exacq or Avigilon.

Thanks for the tips - I'd rather avoid a Windows based system if possible though as that means having a separate PC running all the time (and if someone breaks in they're probably going to steal it, so no CCTV footage). I like the small compact NVRs as I can hide them in the attic and they hopefully won't get found. For these small NVRs do you generally have to get the one that is made by the same brand as your cameras or are there some that support most IP cameras?

While I was being amazed by the sample footage from other cameras I thought why not take a look at the sample footage for the cameras I'm using... and found that it is way better than what I am getting. This video for example is the same camera but so much more clear than my footage even if I turn all quality settings up to maximum:

Maybe mine just need focusing or something... I thought they just had automatic focus but I'll look through the manual. Oh and I've already tried updating to the latest firmware, didn't help (if anything it made the frame rates worse)

EDIT: Nope there is no way to focus this camera, it just says 4mm fixed lens with fixed iris. So what am I doing wrong? Here is an example from someone else's footage with this same camera:

and here is mine on maximum quality and bitrate (which I can't even record at more than 4 FPS, yet other people seem to be getting better quality footage at 15 FPS) and also note that this screenshot was taken from the camera's web interface, not the NVR.

That thumbnail is quite flattering too - when the image is scaled down a lot like that it doesn't look too bad, but if you view my footage in full size and compare to the youtube videos in full size the quality is nowhere near the same. Especially in motion, most things are just blurry and mushy rather than crystal clear like they are on other people's videos.

I realise you guys might not be able to tell me how to fix this specific camera, but I'm just concerned that if I buy an even more expensive camera because the demo footage from other people looks amazing, it might still look rubbish for me for some reason :/ Networking speeds and NVR speed don't come in to this as far as I can see, as like I said when I just view the camera footage directly from its own web interface it looks equally terrible.

That's funny about Windows PC being too big because I yet to find a NVR that's as small as my PC. I use an i5 Intel NUC, it's about 4.5" square, holds a 2TB drive and I run Milestone XProtect, very reliable with 10 cameras at least. I hide it so it's not so easily stealable.

Some fix lens cameras have focusable lenses, some don't, but most are focusable if you take it apart enough to reach the lens. The support folks from the manufacturer should let you know if it's possible but that camera does not look too bad for a 1MP camera. You are getting some compression artifacts that may be making the image looks soft. The picture of the blue car looks very sharp, albeit low pixel density again. This may be a 4mm lens but I would go with a 6mm lens for higher pixel density and avoid the wall and bushes, just capture what you need.

The closest subject is the boy on the quad in the first picture. His face is about 11-12px tall. To recognize someone, you need the face to be about 40px, to ID them, about 85px. So going from 1MP to 3MP would give you about twice the pixel height, still not recognizable but twice as good.

Yeah the car looks ok because it doesn't have much detail, but if you look at the leaves on the bushes (or someone's face when there's a person in shot) everything is very pixelated and blurry. I agree it looks like compression causing the issue but even if I set everything to highest quality and streaming in MJPEG format it still looks pretty much the same (and I only get 4 FPS). It never looks anywhere near as clear as the video in that example youtube clip I posted. Do you think maybe they put a different lens on it? I don't think you're meant to be able to change the lens on these but I'm sure if you take it apart enough you can... but surely I shouldn't have to do that just to get a decent image?

BTW these are 2 megapixel cameras not 1 megapixel. The one I have ordered is 5 megapixel, so will see how that compares when it arrives.

That's funny about Windows PC being too big because I yet to find a NVR that's as small as my PC. I use an i5 Intel NUC, it's about 4.5" square, holds a 2TB drive and I run Milestone XProtect, very reliable with 10 cameras at least. I hide it so it's not so easily stealable.

Do you have a link for where you can buy such a PC (or parts if you built it yourself)? I've never seen any that small. Thin clients yeah, but not actual PCs that can run full blown Windows and CCTV monitoring software.

That's funny about Windows PC being too big because I yet to find a NVR that's as small as my PC. I use an i5 Intel NUC, it's about 4.5" square, holds a 2TB drive and I run Milestone XProtect, very reliable with 10 cameras at least. I hide it so it's not so easily stealable.

 

Do you have a link for where you can buy such a PC (or parts if you built it yourself)? I've never seen any that small. Thin clients yeah, but not actual PCs that can run full blown Windows and CCTV monitoring software.

Here you go

Intel NUC

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=nuc&N=100006668&isNodeId=1

Gigabyte Brix

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=gigabyte+brix&N=-1&isNodeId=1

If you get a NUC, get the model with the vent holes on the side, that one supports an msata + hard drive, the one without does not support a hard drive. You can get a small 32GB msata ssd and use that to hold the O.S. and software. Also comes with a VESA mounting plate so you can attach it to the back of your monitor. I've even used the Celeron version (about $130 sans RAM and HDD) with 6 cameras using Milestone software.

As for the image, because it's been resized, not the full 1080P, it's harder to comment on the quality. You will never ID someone in that picture even at 1080P. At 5MP, you will barely be able to identify someone if they are as close as that boy. Too wide of a shot and throwing resolution at helps but not as much as you think, for example, going from 3MP to 5MP only increases your horizontal pixels by about 35% but actual optical resolution may not go up as much.

Hi Guys,

I bought some of the latest planet cameras and NVR which looks good and quality housing however I am highly disappointed due to the functions and capabilities advertised on the website but in reality it is a different issue on its own.

The price tags for their products are very close to Axis but performance not impressive. The only support available is by email and only during their working hrs.

Please if you know any other manufacturer with quality and cost effective products do let me know.

BR

Osabla