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 Post subject: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Good afternoon,
I've searched on here for a little while, and I apologize if this question has been asked and answered. I'm a novice at CCTV so please talk to me like a young child. :)

I live out in the county there is no a good source for internet or wifi (Line of site 3 MPS). I have a barn which has been turned into a wedding venue. For the past 3 years we used a cheap system Swann to run our security camera's outside the barn. (Longest run approx 100ft). We would like to put two security camera's out at our main gate. (approx 900 ft run) There is currently no electricity out there.

I thought RG6 Siamese coax was the way to go and purchased this.. but isn't working.

Any suggestion are welcome on how I could make this work. I'm willing to buy a new DVR and 2 new cameras for long run. I would like it if my old camera's would work with a new DVR and their BNC cables just to lower the cost.

Thank you in advance


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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:57 pm 
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blkblts wrote:
Good afternoon,
I've searched on here for a little while, and I apologize if this question has been asked and answered. I'm a novice at CCTV so please talk to me like a young child. :)

I live out in the county there is no a good source for internet or wifi (Line of site 3 MPS). I have a barn which has been turned into a wedding venue. For the past 3 years we used a cheap system Swann to run our security camera's outside the barn. (Longest run approx 100ft). We would like to put two security camera's out at our main gate. (approx 900 ft run) There is currently no electricity out there.

I thought RG6 Siamese coax was the way to go and purchased this.. but isn't working.

Any suggestion are welcome on how I could make this work. I'm willing to buy a new DVR and 2 new cameras for long run. I would like it if my old camera's would work with a new DVR and their BNC cables just to lower the cost.

Thank you in advance


You have two problems here. Length of cable run for the video signal and length of run for the power. Lets start with the power. The distance problem ( voltage drop ) can most likely be solved by using 24Vac cameras. These cameras have a 24Vac - 12Vdc regulator on board so effectively will allow for about a 10V drop before issues accur. This will mean new cameras as you most likely have 12V cameras at the moment. The alternative is to have an adjustable power supply adjusted to compensate for the voltage drop. The trouble with this comes with using IR cameras as the current requirements (& hence voltage drop) will change markedly between day (IR off) and night (IR on). It may prove to be an impossible juggling act between undervoltage at night & overvoltage in the day.
Next problem is signal level. For analogue 900' is getting towards the limit. If the coax is CCA or CCS then you are past its useable length. I assume your cameras are analogue since you are talking coax cable, BUT are they the old standard definition (obselete) or the newer High def CVI, TVI, AHD etc. These cameras will have no problems running 900' on coax or Cat 5/6. The biggest difference between the two (besides price) is the physical integrity. Cat 5/6 is a fairly fragile cable while coax can just about be used as a tow rope. If it's going outside I'd be using QUALITY coax in conduit and never have cable problems again

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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 am 
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Thank you for your quick response.
Here's my baby step reading of what you wrote... :)

Solve the power issue...
1. Get a 24vac/12V DC security camera.
2. Get a 24vac power supply and hook to Siamese power on the RG6 Siamese power cord.

Do you have an example of a camera you would purchase? Is there a special DVR that I would need too? I see that

Solve the video issue...
I already purchased Direct Burial RG6 Siamese from Sewell Direct. Does that sound like you think it would work?

Outdoor cable runs have two obstacles to overcome: distance and the elements. Sewell’s Outdoor Direct Burial RG6 cable has been specially designed with added protection from the elements and electromagnetic interference to overcome these obstacles and give you the best possible signal.
Pure Copper Conductor

The signal transmitted through any cable will become weaker over long distances. This is because of attenuation. There are some things you can do to reduce attenuation and get a better signal. Sewell’s Direct Burial Cable has a pure copper conductor and dual shielding, including a 95% braid. That means you will get the best signal quality available, even over long distances.
Direct Burial

This cable comes with a PE (polyethylene) jacket instead of the standard PVC jacket used in most coax cables. The PE jacket makes this cable extremely resistant to cold weather, moisture, chemicals, abrasion, cutting, and even lightening. It also has a special gel-like substance in the jacket that blocks water and moisture corroding your conductor and damaging your signal. If you bury your coax cable without this added protection you risk moisture and contaminates entering the cable and corrode your shielding and conductor.
Siamese Cable

Having power and data cables run together cuts your installation time in half by requiring you to run only one cable. The term “Siamese cable” refers to a type of cable that combines video and power into one package. That means that in addition to the RG6 video cable, there are also separately insulated power cables included in the cable. That allows you to provide the proper power to your equipment without interfering with the video signal.

Thanks a bunch
Kim


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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:10 pm 
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As mentioned , analogue cameras are now HD . The 3 technologies for these are CVI , TVI or AHD. They all give about the same results and are just the manufacturers formats that are jostling for market share. Personally I use CVI. Thses cameras will work on the old standard def DVRs but of course wont give HD.
Now to your cable. For a long time I have been trying to educate people about the difference between RG59 and RG6. This information is readily confirmable on the net.
Coax cable is designed to transport a frequency range of signals from point to point. These signals take two forms - Transmitted signals which are high level signals and received signals which are low level signals. With high level signals the shieldings primary function is to prevent spurious radiation into the immediate environment while for low level signals the primary function of the shielding is to prevent reception of spurious signals from the immediate environment. At the design point this shielding is optimised for the rejection of the expected spurious signals. This gives rise to the different types of coax cable available on the market. So what it comes down to is -
there are cables and there are cables. CCTV baseband frequencies extend to about 5.5Mhz. Even allowing for the chroma modulation harmonics 10Mhz would be the absolute theoretical maximun. RG59 is designed to have minimun attenuation whith maximum shielding up to about 50Mhz. NOW RG6 is a relatively new coax and is designed for the digital TV spectrum which is well above the CCTV band. (>500Mhz). The shielding is specifically designed to prevent interference at this UHF freq from getting on to the low level received signal. Interference at the low frequency that would affect CCTV signals are not an issue , they are well outside the band. So when you use RG6 for baseband CCTV purposes you run the risk of low frequency interference (50Mhz<) that RG6 is not designed to shield for, causing all sorts of problems on the low Frequency CCTV signal.
In short RG59 is designed for frequencies up to about 150Mhz (CCTV) and RG6 is designed for frequencies above 100Mhz (digital TV). THe people who sell this stuff have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. "quad shield" yeah , must be 4 times as good as single shield.
If you are putting the effort into 900' of buried cable then you want it to work and be trouble free. Use best quality RG59 and put it in conduit (at least 50mm)

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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Thank you for the answer and I appreciate the input. Wrongly I'm sure but I already invested in RG6. So I guess I will hope for the best...:)


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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:51 am 
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May the force be with you. But seriously in all likelyhood it will work ok especially if it is fairly clean as far as interference goes but I would still put it in conduit. Awful lot of trenching just to do it again and conduit doesn't cost much.

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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:03 am 
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Hi what format of camera did you install at the gate


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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:01 am 
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The Toss-- Luckily I have a trencher and it's a straight path... I tried to do research and I sent several inquiries to Online Vendors who talk about HD over Coax. I either got no response or everyone just sited the long run electrical wouldn't work because of the voltage drop and they said I would have to run a separate power source. I appreciate you directing me to the 12V/24VAC camera. I should have consulted the forum before I bought the cable. We put the cable in the ground in July. Should have left it on the roll until we knew it worked too. Lot's of mistakes, but hopefully I'll get it to work and others will read this and do better.

TomCCTV: I have not purchased the camera for the gate yet. Only laid the cable and tested with a 12V camera. I did get this camera to power on and send video for about a 2 feet test, but when I tried for the full run it did not. I'm researching for 12V/24VAC camera and power plug as The Toss suggested. I'm crossing fingers that will work.

Thanks
Kim


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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:11 pm 
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With being on coax and only on standard analog you will need to do more than just power


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 Post subject: Re: How to run video and electricity for 1000 ft run
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Thank you for your comment. Do you have any suggestions?


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