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 Post subject: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:42 pm 
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Hi,

Does anyone know the distnaces that HD-SDI can get over Standard RG59 cable in 720p and 1080p.

Some people are saying 150m @ 720p using Standard RG59 and about 70m @ 1080p...

Also some companies link on the below link make a HDMI Convertor over CAT5.... I am not for adding multiple devices to the a cable run to get a image but at the cost of re-cabling a job it may be a option.

http://www.utpbalun.com/hdmi.php

I have to admit that HD-SDI looks the business and for the smaller jobs may even take over from Analogue but for large scale jobs I have to admit IP is KING...

Let me know

MM


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:58 am 

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What SDI cameras are you considering?


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Depends more on data rate than resolution. If by HD-SDI you mean SMPTE 292 the data rate will be 1.5 Gb/s. And not all rg-59 is alike. If you use Belden 1505a , which is an rg-59 type but precision, you can go 93m according to Belden. That is not the foam dielectric stuff cable companies use for RF. The rule of thumb for HD-SDI cable transmission is Maximum length = 20 dB loss at 1/2 the clock frequency: SMPTE 292M. So at 750 Mhz , 1505a will be 20 dB down at 93m.

Also there will be additional losses that must be accounted for in connectors and patch panels. And you will want some head room to stay away from the cliff.


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:39 pm 
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HI,

Thanks for the information and we are looking at either of the following cameras.

http://www.shany.com/all.asp?fname=p03-0b ( Cameras Only )

http://www.webgateinc.com/wgi_htdocs/en ... category=8 ( Cameras and DVR )

I agree with you abou using the correct cable but honestly most HD-SDI jobs will be retro fits and have cable already installed from previous Installations.... This is the part that scares me as when people quote a job it is all dependant on the cable quality....

I am going to do some testing here today and will keep you informed... Also we are goiing to try using HDMI baluns over CAT5... Anyone have anty thoughts and again will let you know the results

http://www.utpbalun.com/hdmi.php

Thanks
MM


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:55 am 
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Some of those Shany cams are 3 Gb/s. That seems crazy to use as a transport for what can't be a very hi-res image. Why not IP? HD-SDI will require good cable at short runs and fiber for anything long. I am really puzzled at what market these are shooting for. SDI at 270 Mb/s is problematic enough. Wonder what they did this for?

Be interesting to see what you find out.


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:23 am 
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SportPlumber wrote:
Some of those Shany cams are 3 Gb/s. That seems crazy to use as a transport for what can't be a very hi-res image. Why not IP? HD-SDI will require good cable at short runs and fiber for anything long. I am really puzzled at what market these are shooting for. SDI at 270 Mb/s is problematic enough. Wonder what they did this for?

Be interesting to see what you find out.


I have never even given one of those cameras a thought because we do 99.9% IP.
But that video stream is staggering. They must send the raw stream over the wire and do nothing at all on the camera.


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:01 am 
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ssmith10pn wrote:
SportPlumber wrote:
Some of those Shany cams are 3 Gb/s. That seems crazy to use as a transport for what can't be a very hi-res image. Why not IP? HD-SDI will require good cable at short runs and fiber for anything long. I am really puzzled at what market these are shooting for. SDI at 270 Mb/s is problematic enough. Wonder what they did this for?

Be interesting to see what you find out.


I have never even given one of those cameras a thought because we do 99.9% IP.
But that video stream is staggering. They must send the raw stream over the wire and do nothing at all on the camera.

Raw, uncompressed, full-framerate 720p and 1080p video, in fact. Makes for really stunning live video.

Of course, it still has to be compressed for storage, at which point you end up with video that should be indistinguishable from IP megapixel video.

Ostensibly, the idea behind this is to allow easy-retrofit upgrades to HD video for existing coax-cabled analog systems - unplug your old analog gear, plug in the HD gear, and away you go. Cost-wise, the equipment is no cheaper than IP, and you're still stuck with a closed, point-to-point system. It's a nice idea for some circumstances, but I don't think it will ever get beyond a niche product.

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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Hi,

I am also testing a unit that Shany has that can send the Video/Data/Power down the one coax cable and it seems to be working pretty good....

I have not seen the HD-DVR yet but I have been told it is processor hungry as allo the encoding is done at the DVR....

I have to admit the images are sensational and latency from the camera is almost non existant....

I agree it is a niche market but for all the no tech guys that like to plug and play like analogue this is a pretty good solution.

Have not tested over HDMI baluns yet but will do over the next few weeks and keep you posted....

MM


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Soundy wrote:
Raw, uncompressed, full-framerate 720p and 1080p video, in fact. Makes for really stunning live video.

Of course, it still has to be compressed for storage, at which point you end up with video that should be indistinguishable from IP megapixel video.

Ostensibly, the idea behind this is to allow easy-retrofit upgrades to HD video for existing coax-cabled analog systems - unplug your old analog gear, plug in the HD gear, and away you go. Cost-wise, the equipment is no cheaper than IP, and you're still stuck with a closed, point-to-point system. It's a nice idea for some circumstances, but I don't think it will ever get beyond a niche product.


Sure but not with a 3 Megapixel imager! SMPTE 292 and 424 are the HD-SDI transport stream specs at 1.5 Gb/s and 3 Gb/s respectively. The 3Gb/s 424 came along to support 60 frame progressive for sports and can be used for 3D. So I guess it makes sense to design cameras that adhere to the standard but talk about using a shotgun to swat a fly.

It is really important to use the correct wire and true 75 ohm BNCs. Even then it won't go to far.

Niche market is right!


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:54 pm 
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SportPlumber wrote:
Soundy wrote:
Raw, uncompressed, full-framerate 720p and 1080p video, in fact. Makes for really stunning live video.

Of course, it still has to be compressed for storage, at which point you end up with video that should be indistinguishable from IP megapixel video.

Ostensibly, the idea behind this is to allow easy-retrofit upgrades to HD video for existing coax-cabled analog systems - unplug your old analog gear, plug in the HD gear, and away you go. Cost-wise, the equipment is no cheaper than IP, and you're still stuck with a closed, point-to-point system. It's a nice idea for some circumstances, but I don't think it will ever get beyond a niche product.


Sure but not with a 3 Megapixel imager! SMPTE 292 and 424 are the HD-SDI transport stream specs at 1.5 Gb/s and 3 Gb/s respectively. The 3Gb/s 424 came along to support 60 frame progressive for sports and can be used for 3D. So I guess it makes sense to design cameras that adhere to the standard but talk about using a shotgun to swat a fly.

Hahahah, nice analogy! You want to really stir up some fun, go join the HDcctv group on LinkedIn and tell them that - I'd kill to see Todd and Craig's reactions to that. Bet survtech would too - trolling them has become a hobby of ours :)

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It is really important to use the correct wire and true 75 ohm BNCs. Even then it won't go to far.

Yeah, post that, and see if Craig can come back in any less than 2,000 words... Image

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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:41 am 
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HI,

I have just tested the HD-SDI over Coax and have got 130 metres on RG59 with 3MP cameras running 1080P.

Seems very nice alternative to IP and Analogue... Especially for some plug and play Installers.

Have not tested on a balun yet as the HD baluns are a few months away yet.

Prices are not that bad either but limited to 16ch for the time being as the DVR has to Encode from the cameras and does draw allot of power.

www.webgateinc.com ( They OEM the Samsung DVR's by the look of things )

All in all..... Not that bad

Thanks
MM


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:34 am 
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Soundy wrote:
Raw, uncompressed, full-framerate 720p and 1080p video, in fact. Makes for really stunning live video.
HD-SDI can also use 1080i; which would require 1/2 the data rate of 1080p.

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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:57 am 
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Megapixelman wrote:
HI,

I have just tested the HD-SDI over Coax and have got 130 metres on RG59 with 3MP cameras running 1080P.

Seems very nice alternative to IP and Analogue... Especially for some plug and play Installers.

Have not tested on a balun yet as the HD baluns are a few months away yet.

Prices are not that bad either but limited to 16ch for the time being as the DVR has to Encode from the cameras and does draw allot of power.

http://www.webgateinc.com ( They OEM the Samsung DVR's by the look of things )

All in all..... Not that bad

Thanks
MM


Well it would be helpful to know what you mean by "testing". What kind of rg-59? New or in an old install? What data rate? 1080P implies 3G/s?


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 Post subject: Re: HD-SDI over RG59 Coax and Baluns
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:58 am 
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Here is a product that supports HD-SDI over Cat5 if coax is not feasible.

http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_SDI_HD_SDI_Extender_Kit.html


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