rory

Thank you for the suggestions, one question I have is about the power supply. If I allready have a 24VAC power supply that I use to power the cameras, I cant just run another wire for the UF100, I have to get the power supply to run the cable to?

Sorry, just checking again, if your are using a multiple 24VAC power Supply, with enough ampage it will work, In not 100% great with power, ampage etc, Maybe Allen (AVCONSULTING, been in electronics for years) can help on that, or email Extreme Direct from their web site to double check. Remember Warranty can be affected if using the incorrect power supply, sometimes.

Thank you for the suggestions, one question I have is about the power supply. If I allready have a 24VAC power supply that I use to power the cameras, I cant just run another wire for the UF100, I have to get the power supply to run the cable to?

Yes you could, but the Extreme Power Supply comes with a photo cell, so the IR will only be on during the night, instead of all day and night. This saves on the lifetime of the IR LED. And you dont want to look at these LEDs during the day, or night, they can hurt your eyes as they did mine, though the ones I were using were the 600 foot ones, much stronger, I wore shades and my eyes still hurt. Main thing is the photo cell and life of the IR LED. They do sell replacement bulbs also for like $40.

I would keep the power supplies seperate either way as I lost 2 cameras to using the Extreme CCTV UF500 LED power supply, also for the camera, now i use a seperate power supplyfor the camera. You could always buya photo cell for the 24VAC power supply for the IR LED, using a standard 24VAC power supply. I think they are cheap in Electric Stores. Keep them seperate either way. Just buy an extra 24VAC power supply if you want, and a plug in photocell/timer to turn on that power supply.

I would email ExtremeCCTV first to verify this, but should work, as I am using a regular 24VAC power supply for the EX82 IR Cameras, and have even tested using a 16VAC temporarily.

The Extreme Power Supplies, (at least for the UF500), is a weatherproof plastic box, with a power supply, HighVoltage inputs, LED 24VAC outputs, and a PhotoCell mounted on the casing. Thats why they cost so much.

Rory

Has anyone ever seen a book that exists like this, I think it would be very handy to have a leaflet that could be handed to customers to help the customer make an informed decision

nope, havent seen one yet. If you right it ill be the first to buy a copy!

I think alot of people who know the stuff probably feel they dont have the time to do this, or that it will take away their business as most do this on a per quote basis. Id still like it if there was one available, something that would actually make it easier for us, less explaining so less work in the long run, and then we can just sell sell sell

I bought a CCTV installation/service manual book from LTC training out of the US, very detailed book, but it is pretty old though selling as new ( a few years). Technology has changed since they wrote it, but still it is very useful a its good to know old school tech and methods, so new technology is then so much easier

YES! I've been scouring the internet looking for a CCTV store in or around Los Angeles that I could go to an check out cameras. Please let me know any places that I could visit especially if they carry a large selection so I can begin to fimiliarize myself with these types of cameras. Thanks again! RORY and AVCONSULTING, you guys made my day!!!

LORT

no problem, i hope to open a CCTV store here in the new year, been wanting to do so for a whole now. WIll have mainly demos and a catalog, some stock on cameras etc, and maybe one or 2 DVRs, but mostly catalog order. Demos is the most important thing, myself i like to see something working before I buy it, and that is a big selling point to having a catalog store with demo equipment. Orcourse cwont carry ALL products for demos, just the most popular ones.

Good luck, wish i was in Cali! Freezing cold here in the Bahamas right now actually, for us Bahamians anyway, i think its in the 50's tonight, we arent use to this, dug my ski jacket out of the garage tonight, and oh ohh, i need a blanket, but dont have one, normally we just sleep with AC or sweat the whole night out ) Everyone has a cold orflu now too, we are so soft here! :-0

thanks again, I feel like i am saving my self a lot of headache and money here. Now that I have an I dea where to get my stuff the only thing left is installation but I feel like it will be a valuable experience to install it my self.

z

no prob. go ahead. its fun also. One thing make sure you have a small 9" monitor or 13" TV as it helps with getting the best focused image, the CCTV 9" monitor would be the best, the color ones arent cheap though. Also a handheld will work, but you wont always be ableto get the best possible focus. Either way have something to focus with.

And remember, Radio Shack is your new best friend, if you are like me and the elctroic stores here do not carry most of the adaptors etc that I need for CCTV, Radio Shack always has them, though at a higher cost than the distribitor.

If you want to put a camera on the front door and have a monitor ceiling/wall mounted for that camera for the clients to see there is video there, make sure to get a 14" Monitor for that, or a 13" color TV will work also as a cheaper method. Wall/ceiling mounts can be purchased from any electronic store.

Extra hidden cameras over the cashiers are also handy, or in areas where there is no visible camera for catching theives, though ive usd them mostly for inhouse theft here. Smoke detector cameras (view downward) are the easiest to install.

I would still suggest the best way, 4 color dome cameras (no need for cleaning and can not be knocked so the lens doest go out of whack), and a 4 channel standalone DVR (built in mulitplexer) with LAN for remote video and connection to a local computer for easy searches of video and can burn to CD ect, easier than using the DVR itself. Though more expensive it will save on time consuming searches using the toggle on the VDR or VCR, and smaller and have more features. BUT, once you get the right cameras now, you could always sell the system you will have and buy the all in one at a later date.

Good luck.

Rory

I used to sell cameras to local movie companies that wanted to use them in actual scenes. A very popular brand was Extreme CCTV since they looked very futuristic. You might want to check out some of the items they carry. Are you in the Los Angeles area? If so I can give you a couple of places to go to check them out.

 

www.extremecctv.com

I luv the ExtremeCCTV Ex82 cameras, they are great, just for the record. Though id only use them if there is little or no lighting at night in the area as the IR can glare when the lights are on. Other than that, great daytimg color image and sees up to 100ft or more in the pitch dark. Easy set up and very corrosive proof, i have them only a few feet from the ocean here. Not too impressed with thier domes yet though, had better results with cheaper brands, but if its Infrared you want, their domes are some of the best for that and thats what they design them for.

Hey i see the UK is using ExtremeCCTV cameras all over London City now.

Yes they are B/W I made sure to get them B/W because I knew I would be using them in low light conditions, they are rated at 0.07 lux at F1.2.

Three Beam Patterns: Narrow, Medium, Wide

UF100.X0Y ( x = beam pattern, y = filter )

Examples:

UF100.401 = UF100 @ 60 o Wide Beam, 730 nm filter

UF100.304 = UF100 @ 30o Medium Beam, 950 nm filter

UF100.203 = UF100 @ 10o Narrow Beam, 830 nm filter

x Beam Pattern

2 10 o - Narrow Beam

3 30 o - Medium Beam

4 60 o - Wide Beam

y Filter

1 730 nm (5W bulb glow)

3 830 nm (0.5W bulb glow)

4 950 nm (covert)

NOTE: Wide angle lenses are not generally suggested for Infrared lighting, as you would then require a much wider beam, and loose out on some of the distance, and wide angle is lower quality image and since it is IRand still dark, your image may not be as crisp as it will be with a narrow lens such as 8 or 12mm. But your camera focal lengths seem like they are pretty narrow, 4-6mm? So you should be fine.

In your case I would go with the UF100.303- 30 degree Beam so you get more coverage ans still goes pretty far like around 100 feet.

Pricing:

For wholesale pricing it is as much as $350, and for retail as much as $656.

UFPS-101 - SIngle Power Supply with Photocell - $136 from Spytown

You can hang the LED right below the camera from the bottom of the housing, they do have wall brackets also, dont see them on the spytown site but they cost $20 - part# is EXMB.026

Spytown.com has it listed at the wholesalepricing of $350

http://www.spytown.com/search--by-part-number--extreme--uniflood-illuminator---mid-range.html

For example (this is only going by the PDF a I havent used this IR yet):

10 Degree - 164ft

30 Degree - 100 ft (Approx)

60 Degree - 50 ft (Approx)

NOTE: these distances decrease for outside use, though only by a little bit. They claim on one camera that does 150ft distance to only do 75 ft outdoor, but im getting over 100 ft with them at a location I installed them at (i know because I measured all the areas when I installed the yard beams for the alarm)

The 950nm may have issues with the camera you have so Id go with the semi covert 830nm to be safe (its what I have used in the past), which still emmits a small red glow a few feet from the IR Led.

Again, havent used this LED before and only going by the images and the PDF and the claimed total IR length of 164ft.

The narrower one may miss out on the egdes which is why I was going inbetween using the 30 degree. The 60 degree may miss out on some images further away, especially in that camera 4.

Ofcourse you could get 2 of the 10 degree ones and you would be set. I am using 2 UF 500 10 degree LEDs and it covers the entire image, like daylight, down a long driveway! With only one of them it misses out on part of the left and right edge of the image and not as bright a image, though still works good.

Hope this helps some

NOTE: you will also need to buy a power supply and they are not cheap also.

NOTE: if using where there is alot of lighting like some of the other cameras, you may get some glare, so I would only use them if you really have to, or in very dark areas like in camera 4.

NOTE: if you wanted, but would mean spending some more dollars, you could use a DAY/Night camera, which is color in the day and switches to BW at night, with the IR LEDs, im using a Sanyo High Res DAy/Night with the 2 UF500 Leds, and I can even see a car's licence plate as it is as if its day light. The UF 500's are overkill though in my opinion, at least for the app i am using it for, just didnt know which one to get in the begining and that was the first one. Then all the rest were the EX82 cameras and they work fine. A seperate LED though is nice so you can manouver it different from the camera.

Rory

I took AGC and BLC off after rory made the recommendation. I think my best bet will be going with IR, the UF100 looks affordable and looks like it will work in my application. Due to restrictions in the community setting up spot lights where the cameras are aimed would be too much of a problem.

Hi Chuck

Like allan said, IR is very expensive, if doing it right. Ive done a home here with All extreme CCTV IR cameras and some UF500s. So ive been through all the ins and outs of it.

I have to go out for a hlaf hour, will take another look at your night images, and see what you will need from Extreme to Cover it. Ill get you the price also, just give me til 5.30-6pm (bahamas time)

The card was a MP5016 Avermedia with 120fps recording (however I found out later 5fps max per camera) which does not make a whole lot of sense. Im looking forward to some sort of software update that may fix this. The price I paid was $850 from an online retailer.

YEah, normally the total fps divides up among any cameras connected. We buy the stand alone DVRs like a 4 channel for around $1400 wholesale. Different types of compression and all.

Oky I setup a TV and connected it to the cameras. After I adjusted the cameras they looked great on the TV, however when they are connected to the DVR system they are grainy and slightly out of focus... Is this something I should expect from a digital DVR system? AverMedia was by no means cheap but it wasnt one of the high end systems either. Do you think I would have bettter luck with a different unit?

 

Here is a shot:

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/configured.jpg

I had the same problem with 2 different PCI cards that I went to deal with. I wasnt there for the DVR part, just the cameras. In the highest settings they stil had pretty bad quality, especially compared to other DVRs I have viewed and used. GeoVision seems to be good also. There may be the compression thing, I think Mpeg is better, but Alan will be able to help you more on that issue.

Just curious, how much did you pay, just want a comparison to a stand alone, and did you buy it retail or from a distributor?

http://www.adome.net/dvr.php

Check this out, quality isnt as good as with say the Kalatel DVR over the internet, but it is displaying REAL TIME video, for me on cable at least, which I havent seen on any other Remote Video yet. Any ideas, is this just the type of comression they are using. log in a demo it. Also, anyone here tried this product before?

Rory

http://imperx.com/

Take a look at this site. They have cameras and software just for this type of application. Its called machine vision, other manufacturers make these type of cameras also, like Toshiba, but this one has 1-4 Megapixel cameras, framegrabbers, and software development kits (so you can write or have someone write the exact software you want, like in your case).

Rory

Thanks for the info AVCONSULTING, but I just found out that they want to use a Panasonic WV-CP240 style camera for this movie (they like the way it looks). We've only seen this camera in pictures on the internet and based on the specs it can do 480 lines of resolution. If need be, would it be possible to remove the inside electronics from the Panasonic and replace it with a small high quality camera from LCLUSA, or do you think the quality of the Panasonic is close enough or as good as LCLUSA camera?

LORT

They are all pretty much the same, i would imagine panasonic would be somewhat better. I wouldnt take that other and put it in the panasonic though! Also, they actually like the look of panasonic cameras?? If your really want high resolution check this out from sanyo: ugly but 1.5 megapixels:

http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/security/cameras/digital/index.cfm?productID=152

OR, something like a machine/medical camera, used for videa also:

http://www.toshiba.com/taisisd/indmed/iktu51.htm (800 TVL)

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

WORK on one camera first, then when you get the settings great, then do the rest.

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

and if you ever want to switch to an embedded DVR system that doesnt use your PC, more stable, no maintanance etc, id suggest the GE interlogix Kalatel StoreSafe, 4 Channel, Hard Drive size will depend on how long you want to record for, built in HDs can give you 7-56 days (40Gb-160Gb) approx ( i have an 8 channel at 5pps 320gb 24 hour gas station doing 28 days, single channel DVR,so you an get double with an all in one as its all built together so you can go half the speed toget the same recording results, 2.5pps), and they have add on Digital Storage that can record for years and years. The 40Gb starts at $1495 Wholesale, so its not as cheap as the PC card, but definately worth it. Prices will drop so hopefully they will get cheaper in time They also have built in CD-RW, LAN (remote video, which you can make your own custom software for if you wanted, though comes with free software), and many many features. Anyway, there are others also but this is the 'brand' that I use and support and have had nothing but great experience with.

Ok, yes im done promoting kalatel for now )) back to watching TV. And no i get no compansation from them!

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

ok good. I have focused cameras at night and evening. Basically when you get the best picture you will know, as the detail will give off a moving kind of crispness, you may see on MSNBC or CNN with their cameras (theirs are obvioulsy higher res and cost WAY more), but the details of the image such as the edge of a car or leaves will actually be moving, somewhat, to the eye, like high contrast. These Sony's are some of the best cameras, at least they are 'top of the line' so they should give a great image.

Note that you are not using the lowest light lenses, they recommend f1.2 for the light level they will go to, you have f1.4, but hey that is close enough! and still very good low light lenses.(i use f0.95 lenses on the low light color cameras at the night club I was talking about, so if you want to see more at night then you can always switch to lower F Stop lenses such s f1.2, or maybe even lower like the f0.95 lens from Fujitsu. It may not matter too much with BW, not sure, but it could be worth a try at least to test on 1 camera at a later date, wouldnt mess with it right now. And yes, AGC turned on will make it brighter at night also, but may mess up the day image, i always leave AGC off personally, but we have alot of sunlight here in the Bahamas )

Thanx guys for the quick responses, here is a copy of the manual:

http://www.visualsecurity.com/downloads/pdfs/sony/sscm183_383.pdf

 

my configuration is as followed:

(DC/Video): DC

(LL/INT): INT

(OFF/AGC): AGC

(OFF/BLC): BLC

(OFF/CCD-IRIS): OFF

 

On V-Phase I have it all the way to + (I didn't notice any difference in changing it). On Level I have it all the way to + then back about a 1/4 turn (This would bleach the image all the way + and make it pitch black at -). The power is AC24V from a fused box on power backup.

 

Also rory, thanx for the compliment I figured it was time to put some cameras up, ever since we have had our house egged and firworked to death. The kids who eggs us the last time didnt get away

Ok thanks, havent looked at the manual yet, but as to your settings:

For Outdoors:

(DC/Video): DC - GOOD

(LL/INT): INT - GOOD

(OFF/AGC): AGC - OFF - NORMALLY CAUSES THE IMAGE TO BE TOO BRIGHT

(OFF/BLC): BLC - OFF - NORMALLY SET TO OFF UNLESS USING AT AN ENTRY DOOR INDOORS

(OFF/CCD-IRIS): OFF - GOOD - USING AUTO IRIS LENS

V- Phase shouldnt make a difference unless you are using line lock, not needed in your case.

AI level is up to you depending on the brightness of the image during the day. If it is too bright in the day lower the level more. If you need to see more in the night, raise it more but you will/may be too bright in the day.

It seems okay to me from the images. Focus it first, then adjust the AI level brightness.

For instance I have a night club who is more interested in seeing in low low light at night as they tried to burn the place down a few times. So for those cameras we have the AI turned up high, so at night it is very good, for color cameras. Day time you can still see good, but can be very bright on the ground reflection when the sun is out, but the client wanted this and didnt care much for day as he has workers their during the day every day. End result is nightimt, the florecsent lights can be too bright, but the other parts of the images see everything, and as its a a low light color camera, can see in almost no light. So like i said, its up to you, light level seems fine to me from the images. You definately wouldnt darken it anymore, if anything you would lighten it, but i wouldnt, unless you want to see more at night, but could mess up your day image, test in night , THEN day if you want to do something like this. Otherwise leave the brightness as is.

EDITED:

Ok looked and same as i mentioned above.

Also try Backfocus adjustment for crisper image when focusing, It looks like it has one at the top of it. Focus the camera to wide angle, then back focus it to crisper image, then if you want an different focal lenght (eg. if lens is 4mm and you want to see 6mm then now you adjust it to 6mm) focus to required lens focus, then use back focus again to finalize the image. Instructions should show how to do all this, though I dont see it in the manual. You can always just focus it then use back focus to finalise the image.

Good Forum - your adwords banner is what attracted us

Adwords? I dont see the banner! ??

I think the search word 'cctv forum' is just not considered a 'company' keyword by google hence they search it the 'normal' way they used to. If you type in 'bahamas security' i come up first but I pay nothing. Its because it is not a 'company' or 'commerical' keyword, at least to them, noone else bidding on it. But with something like 'real estate' that is so that is hard to get on the first 1-10 pages on (or even more like 1-100)!

Anywayz, you have a nice site, interesting also.

they cost $6+ dollars here in the Bahamas from Radio Shack, just to let you know how much things are soo expensive here!! :-0

A local electric supplier can sell me BNC connectors though for $4 each. I normally get them from my distributor for $1 each. These are standard twist on BNC connectors, nothing special.

It is called video assist. I used to have a distributing company in Glendale, CA and we helped many of the local video assist companies with their product requirements. The best source for these cameras is Watec and here is a link to their web site. They are very high quality, extremely small, and work on 12 vdc. You'll also need an appropriate lens and that may take some experimenting so try and find a dealer close to you that carries the product.

 

http://www.lclusa.com/

Hi Alan, what kind of prices are (were) they please, thanks.

Also, i dont see anything special on their site as far as higher resolution than others, do you have a link to it plz?

Rory

Ok no they have no images on Sony Site with settings for this camera.

If you can send a manual or photo of the settings panel post here or email me.

Also, one thing with sunshades, I found they rarely ever work, at least here in the Bahamas.

Also, nice house, nice garden lighting )

Those are actually the sun shades as those two cameras get a lot of sun prior to sundown. I dont have any CCTV monitors, will a normal TV work with a BNC connector on one side to the camera and a TV connector to the TV? right now Ive used a cell phone to talk with someone else looking at the monitor, very difficult, if I did this as a profession I think I would buy one of those handheld monitors

If your TV has RCA inputs all you need is a BNC - RCA Adaptor. I have a hand held and to be honest they are too small to get the best quality picture. I used a 9inch BW monitor for a while but it 'disappeared' on a job. Now i am using a cheap 13" Color TV for now until I can get my hands on a nother 9" CCTV monitor. CCTV monitors have higher resolution than a tv, but a TV can helo you focus a better crisper image than a small hand held.

You should be able to move the sun shades back a little more, had the same issue myself with some Ganz Housings I was sold for a local bank here, had to move them back more, they came default but were too far forward for a wide angle lens (4mm in my case, not really that wide but wider than the manufacturer set them up for).

Thats probably your problem with clarity, having someone else focus it for you via a phone or radio, never works great. Yes, use a regular TV, but dont drop it! ) The one i use cost me $99 probably $40 -50 for you in the US, and has RCA inputs and handles to hold it and its light. A color CCTV monitor or BW will cost much more but give you better clarity. My next job I get im buying a CCTV monitor, but for now, the small TV works great.

Edited:

Like alan said, focus it in either dim lighting or early evening, make sure to use the back focus also for best quality. Use something to focus on in the area that you want the camera to see (eg:50ft away), i use something in the picture such as leaves that can be defined or a vehicle's edges. There are video meters out there now that id like to get my hands on, which claim to help with focus. In cameras 1 & 3 id use the vehicle to focus on, or the 'raindeer' in camera 1 ( ). In cameras 2 & 4 id park the vehicle there or use a tree or plant to focus in on, OR, have another person go within view.

Camera 1, 3 & 4 seem to be out of focus, id go out there tonight with a TV and adjust until you get a crisp picture, then the daytime should be fine also. Camera 2 doesnt seem to bad, not sure as it may just be the DVR card. Brightness levels seem ok. If you want post the type of camera and i may be able to send you exact instructions on its settings using a manual I can download (hopefully).

Rory

thanks again, I know that is so true' you get what you pay for'. I will probably look for something affordable but upgradable for later improvements. Ihave a small grocery (700sft retail area) for now four cameras are plenty. ok so how about 1200 what can that get me?( I know ill probably not get wireless) and ill probably get dvr so illneed digital cameras?to reply to the guy from australia , I drive a toyota corrola, not a 4runner, just enough to get from a and b and i want the same with my surveillance, enough to scare people off and if and when they do steal, ill have a good chance to prosecute (but that will be someone stealing rice or a tea pot)

but your business seams attractive (dvr cctv), I see a growing market for it and it should get cheaper soon.

thanks guys

z

Hi, wherer are you located and can you purchase from online and or a local distributor, if not you may end up paying retail, otherwise you can get some good wholesale type prices. The following are wholesale using some bullet cameras and a VDR (like a VCR but is digital quality, same price, but has a hard drive and a higher digital quality), does not have a remore option or audio, but is still digital. (this is only an example)

4 BW Provideo CVC-130R Bullet Cameras (0.1 lux)

@ $80 US each - $320

http://www.spytown.com/provcvbwbulc.html (not same product but similar enough - they dont seem to have the 130R - this is only $10 more)

(or Kalatels new Bullet, narrower lens but good if you want better wuality - and dont need to cover such a wide area - comes in color in day and sees in dark up to 40 feet in pitch dark - http://www.spytown.com/ktc-cbs24.html)

1 GE Interlogix Kalatel VDR -40GB - $415

http://www.spytown.com/vdr-40.html

1 Ge Interlogix Kalatel CBR-4mxQ Simplex (no motion recording - simple mux) BW 4 Channel Multiplexer - $470 ($555 for color for future camera upgrades if you wanted)

http://www.spytown.com/cbr-4msq.html

(color - http://www.spytown.com/cbr-4csq.html)

(color w/ motion recording (longer)-http://www.spytown.com/cbr-10mez.html)

Thats $1205 Wholesale cost - you can plug into RCA video input on your TV for viewing, or purchase separate CCTV monitor or TV.

Check out www.Spytown.com

(all the kalatel products -http://www.spytown.com/search--by-part-number-kalatel.html)

(all the Provideo products - http://www.spytown.com/csisproveq.html)

HOPE THis Helps some

Rory

Hey guys I wish I found this forum BEFORE I went out and bought all my hardware but this is a rundown of what I have:

 

Computer running AverMedia MP5016 DVR (Only 4 cameras on it right now)

4x Pelco weather housings.

4x Sony SSC-M383 ExwaveHAD cameras

4x Tamron 13VG2812AS-SQ 1/3" 2.8-12mm F/1.4 DC Iris (I think this is where I went wrong)

 

After I got the system all setup I was a little disappointed in the quality of images that I am getting here is a link to a screen shot.

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/cameras.jpg

 

Camera 4 hasnt been configured correctly yet so its washed out. This is my first time so Im not sure how all the settings on the back of the camera work to my advantage. Any tips would be much appreciated, and any info on my lenses or what type are recommended for the cameras I have.

 

Also does anyone have the AverMedia system? I cant seem to find any updates and Im hoping there are because it seems the remote log viewing system doesnt work very well.

 

****Edit****

here is a picture at night time with normal lighting on (turns off late at night) I was thinking of getting an IR illuminator. Also it appears that camera 2 is the only one with the correct settings, I think I have the wrong lense mode selected (Video/DC)

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/night.jpg

Hi. Ok, you have some good cameras and housings and lenses. AS for the System i dont know it and its PC based, may not be the best, our australian friend or Alan may be able to assist you on that. Have you tried to set up each camera on a cctv monitor or small TV yet, for focus of lenses, settings etc? Best to get one working perfect first then set up the rest like that. Looks like 2 cameras are too far from the hosuing glass, need to move them forward more. Also make sure focus is good, and make sure housing glass isnt dirty from rain etc.

Here are some pictures captured remotely over the internet (less quality from original) from one of my installs using Kalatel DVRs, Cameras, and some provideo BW bullet cameras. View the images at this thread:

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22

Thanks guys, I learned a lot from your exchanges. One of the reasons I posted this is because there are other businesses using pretty cheap surveillance. ( i know guys that spend up to 4000 on theirs but I dont want to pay more than i have to). the guy next door got his cctv from sams club for 199,also buddy of mine recommended the x10 cameras http://www.x10.com/ he said they were great for his store. I called them, they told me I needed a multiplexor to see all four cameras which i found for roughly 200 b/w, 300 color on the net. the x10 camera website offer 4 cameras, tv and recorder for under 200 bucks. ok that is cheap but better than zero cameras and even the dummy cameras that some people have in their stores? could you all tell me what is wrong with the picture as far as practicallity and (my thing is i get somthing now cheap, then if the business grows, i get more , i can afford more)

 

z

Well the X10 is not considered CCTV, its more of a joke ) It is a power line interface, if you have bad power you will not get a good picture, we can barely use them in this country, know people that just couldnt get them to work in their locations so ended up throwing it out and buying something better. And by the way the X10 look like crap, and they are not 100% wireless, you still need power. Actually not much wireless is 100% wireless, there is always the need for power.

Sams Club, Kmart, Radio Shack Etc, we never sell these, they are DIY and good luck with the picture. Cheap in , well my books is a bullet camera like from Provideo. That is worth it as it is cheaper than the more expensive beand names, but is a camera that lasts. There are cheaper brands like eclipse and COP i have used in the past but would not touch again.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for, simple as that. Really just get what you can afford. You can always upgrade later, and prices will be lower by thhen probably or they may have specials.

Rory