Exview Camera Help

[ultimatesecurity 0]

Hey guys, I finally having an brain fart and i don't know why. I have done many installs and this one is bugging me. I installed three cameras for a residential customer. They are all Exview Day/Night cameras with 580LOR 12volt(manufacture claims) anyways, they are all set with the same basic setting but I am getting different results.

 

During the day the cameras look excellent, now white balance is perfect and all. However at night with ambient lighting (porch, street and sidewalk lights) the cameras have a different look.

 

The Garage Driveway camera is fine However the front yard camera (16" off ground) is a too dark and the backyard (23' off ground) is slightly dark. On the video the front yard camers IRIS seems to be opening and closing as the background lighting is dimming and brighting while the sidewalk light is steady. This cameras variFocal setting is around 6-7mm, i was thinking maybe zooming out will help as the cameras are rated at 0.003 lux @ F1.2 with Automatic Gain Control OFF. However this customer is particular on every little thing.

 

All of the AWB settings are turned ON, AEREF is ON, AGCMAX is ON @ 10-22db, MechIRIS is ON, BLCOFF is OFF (turning it on may help with the backlight at night? FLKON is OFF.

 

So my question is:

 

1.) what did I do wrong, or did i answer my own questions here.

 

I've mostly dealt with indoor installations and when it comes to outdoor it has always been either a bullet cameras with IR or PTZ cameras that i can adjust at the controller.

 

The customer did not want IR cameras installed as the first set he had were VL-650IR and had a bad experience with them (IR bounce).

[zmxtech 0]

there is a big difference from 2 to .5 lux etc which you might have.

after the camera gets to its limit [say 1lux] it will crank everything up -slow the shutter and cause noise & grief

 

if the light is measured around 5 lux and below

i would be looking at IR lighting, I would guess he had cheap IR cams that flare and carry on. If you put a real camera with integrated IR like the EX27/82 extreme etc or a cantronics dnd180 you will change is mind.

 

maybe even bring along a IR flood and see if it brings up the image. If the cams you have are funky with IR.

 

my 2c

[ultimatesecurity 0]

I know what you mean. See the previous pics below that used the S-peco Dome Cams with IR.

[rory 0]

Not all Exview cameras are made alike - basically.

 

There are various Exview Chips and they are based on price, more you spend better the chip is.

 

I used expensive Exview before and it worked great, Ive used cheaper before and it worked ... good ... Ive used cheap recently and it was just so so .. would not pick up as much side by side with the mid range priced Exview .. also depends on the manufacturer and how they preset the camera.

 

Please give us the exact specs of this Exview camera, is it BW, Color, or True Day Night? With 580 TVL it sounds like BW only, though a True Day Night would be something like 480TVL Color then 570-600TVL BW. If it is just a color Exview then dont expect much, the BW mode it goes into is just for picking up IR (hence no IR Cut Filter) but it is not even close to being as sensitive as a basic BW only camera.

 

Bottom line is the camera needs light. Exview takes light from the image then spreads it around the image, basically. Which is why when it gets darker and darker it gets more pixelized. Little yard lights do very little for cameras, so they wont help the exview much.

 

The other snapshots you posted are common with IR Domes, which is why I never used them.

 

Also, that 0.003 lux is inaccurate for Exview, average 0.1 Lux Exview Color or 0.01 Exview BW (Faceplate can be less).

 

Lastly, an F:0.95 lens would make the world of difference.

 

I dont know how dark it actually looks so hard to tell, maybe get a Color shot out there if you can, if it is pitch dark in color then the images arent that bad.

[ultimatesecurity 0]

Not all Exview cameras are made alike - basically.

 

There are various Exview Chips and they are based on price, more you spend better the chip is.

 

I used expensive Exview before and it worked great, Ive used cheaper before and it worked ... good ... Ive used cheap recently and it was just so so .. would not pick up as much side by side with the mid range priced Exview .. also depends on the manufacturer and how they preset the camera.

 

Please give us the exact specs of this Exview camera, is it BW, Color, or True Day Night? With 580 TVL it sounds like BW only, though a True Day Night would be something like 480TVL Color then 570-600TVL BW. If it is just a color Exview then dont expect much, the BW mode it goes into is just for picking up IR (hence no IR Cut Filter) but it is not even close to being as sensitive as a basic BW only camera.

 

Bottom line is the camera needs light. Exview takes light from the image then spreads it around the image, basically. Which is why when it gets darker and darker it gets more pixelized. Little yard lights do very little for cameras, so they wont help the exview much.

 

The other snapshots you posted are common with IR Domes, which is why I never used them.

 

Also, that 0.003 lux is inaccurate for Exview, average 0.1 Lux Exview Color or 0.01 Exview BW (Faceplate can be less).

 

Lastly, an F:0.95 lens would make the world of difference.

 

I dont know how dark it actually looks so hard to tell, maybe get a Color shot out there if you can, if it is pitch dark in color then the images arent that bad.

 

Thanks Rory, I went back to my clients home to do another adjustment to the dip switches. I had something wrong (dip switches are sooo small, i thought I had it something turned on while it was off). Anyways it made a quite a difference and its looks better in video then the snapshot.

 

The camera is Color from Arm model CX580MDVAIVPDN. Its actual rating is 0.05lux @ F1.2 with AGC ON. I typically don't have any problems with Arm and I got to know there tech staff over the years.

[rory 0]

The specs dont say if it is a True Day Night from what I have found on their site and others. Alot of OEMs are selling Exview Color cameras as Day Night when they are not, even big brands are doing it. Exview as mentioned will switch to a "monochrome" mode but it is nothing compared to the BW Mode of a BW camera or even a True Day Night camera. The BW mode is simply to provide the user with the ability to use IR and get "some" additional sensitivity under low light. As you know Exview Color is already very sensitive and can come pretty close to a standard BW camera at 0.1 lux. When that switches to Monochrome some users will think that is a True Day Night, but the way to tell is to look for an automatic IR cut Filter - listen for it when you make it switch from color to BW, you should actually see it also as it goes back and forward in front of the chip.

 

Basically as with many cameras these days out of Korea they are performing the switch to BW Digitally (removing the chroma - color). Cant say that is what this camera is doing though without more information.

[CameraGimp 0]

There is a bit of confusion on day/night cameras. As Rory points out most of it is down to manufacturers being misleading with there descriptions and specification. So here my pennies worth.

 

Going monochrome does nothing to improve sensitivity. Removing the IR cut filter is where the sensitivity gains come from. Once you take the filter out the camera can "see" IR light so it becomes more sensitive. Even if you don't have IR lamps, there will be IR bouncing around. It is just that we turn a camera monochrome at the same time as we remove the IR filter so some assume the sensitivity increase is a result of the cameras going mono. It isn't. We turn a camera mono because colours go wrong when we pass IR and you'd all return your cameras as faulty if we didn't.

 

There are three types of day/night that I am aware of:

 

True day/nights. These are one with a mechanism to move the IR cut filter. As Rory says you can usually hear the filter being moved. These are the best type, true colour during the day, IR sensitive at night. The only downside is the camera has a moving part, this can be a concern for reliability.

 

Colour cameras with a fixed IR cut filter that go monochrome. These are no better than turning the colour down on your monitor and are just a con in my opinion.

 

Colour cameras with no IR cut filter that go monochrome. These have the same low light performance as the moving filter cameras but they will have poor colour reproduction during the day as they are IR sensitive all the time. These cameras actually cost more than a colour equivalent but cost less to make! Same camera minus the filter. Marketing!

 

A trick to watch out for is if a manufacturer limits AGC when in colour and increases it when they switch to mono. This increase in gain boosts the video level and you think the camera has become more sensitive. It hasn't the camera was just under performing in colour! I have seen this on colour cameras with IR cut filters as a way to make you think you are getting something for your money.

[ultimatesecurity 0]

I have attached some day pics of the cameras. According the to the mfg these have day/night cut filters.

[rory 0]

Yep, looks like no IR Cut Filter.

[CollinR 0]

No cut filter or something else is up (25mm lens).

 

True day/night is literally a night and day difference from BS day/night.

 

The IR filter is about 1 F stop so if you have an ARM lens at F1.8 plus the 1 from the IR filter you are 2 F stops behind a BW cam with a fujinon F0.95 lens.

[ultimatesecurity 0]

Here are some more pics with the sun out.

[rory 0]

Hard to tell as due to the snow I guess everything is mostly dead that time of year there also right?

[cctv_down_under 0]

There are some good points in there..but be wary how the specs read...if you could post the specs we could check, people cheat al the time,by making readings with lower fstop than affordable and by reading only half video signal then making specs based ont hose results.

 

Ensure you have an aespheric lens as this will give better light concentration to the camera and check for the mechanical filter, the best bet would be a manual setting for the gain or an ability to switch modes...not colour to BW but to be able to make the camera switch all of the settings via closed relay.

 

IE some cameras have an alarm (for want of a better word) input that can then seicth from day mode to night mode, where sensitivty can then be cranked up.

 

IE if you wired to your light switch for outside, you could make the camera change modes once it is off, it will up the gain and sensitivity for you.

 

Lastly, keep in mind scene reflectance....in specifications a lot of people cheat with this as well, there is scene reflectance and reflectance at the source.

 

If you play a basketball game on grass (the lawn variety...not smoking it) then the ball wont bounce well....A camera CCD relies on light bouncing to it or better stated..Reflecting to it, therefore your cement will reflect better than the grass, light bounces of different objects at different levels depending on the material and probably more importantly the colour of the material.

 

IE to cheat soem specs...firstly use a really low Fstop lens to get your results (no one would pay that much), then base the figures on half the video signal, distorting and making the results look better...then measure the light relectance at the scene and lastly..why not do the test in a completely white room.

 

Good manufacturers will mention Ftsop, Scene Refelctance, Object Reflectance, IRE video strength and many other things in their specs.

 

The best way to get low light performance and an accurate picture is to use an IR Corrected Aespheric low F Stop lens with a camera that supports IR Cut filtering and has a manual gain setting or a larger CCD there is a massive performance increase when going from 1/3rd Inch to 1/2 inch as there is more of a surface area for light to fall on.

 

Exview is nice as it uses curved pixels on the CCD to make extra surface area, IE the more curves of the pixels the more gap in between them and more sensitive, it also uses a micro lens to concentrate the light even stronger.

 

One of the biggest factors overlooked is the Tfactor of a lens...the FStop is just a measure, the Tfactor (Transmition factor) of a lens is its ability to transmit light...cheap glass and a lack of aespheric (by grinding...NOT MOULDING) grinding can result in abhorations in the glass, causing light to bounce in the wrong direction.

 

A rule of thumb is that the more expensive a lens, the more light correcting elements it has, the lements are what make the expense as well as the machining process.