Is this possible?

[magohn 0]

Is there a camera out there that does decent daytime pics and "passable" night time pics - where there is NO light (farmers field). I see numerous IR cams but the one I have only illuminates about 15 feet. Night vision does not have to be excellent, if I can make out wildlife passing I would be thrilled.

 

I have read MANY threads, but there is a definite lack of night vision, posted image samples...could somebody please help me out? Im ready to buy but dont want to pay close to $1000 for an IP camera that is useless at night, especially with the long dark nights approaching...

 

Much appreciated, Magohn

[cglaeser 0]

I see numerous IR cams but the one I have only illuminates about 15 feet.

 

Let's start with the requirements. How many feet do you need to illuminate?

 

Best,

Christopher

[magohn 0]

I see numerous IR cams but the one I have only illuminates about 15 feet.

 

Let's start with the requirements. How many feet do you need to illuminate?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Thanks for replying Chris - The camera will be mounted on the side of the house and ideally could "see" 100-150' at night - as I said, I dont need detail at night, just enough to make out images etc.

 

We are having a HUGE problems with wolves, believe it or not and want day/night coverage of the chicken barn/field. The camera would be neat to see what is going on after the lights go out and show us what we are dealing with.

 

At dusk last night, I looked outside and was thrilled to see we had a baby dear in the backyard, until he looked up - the "deer" was a very large wolf - kinda freaky....

 

Please suggest.....Thanks!

[thewireguys 3]

I would recommend a Day/Night camera with external IR illuminator. You are not gonna find a camera with built-in IR that will illuminate 150ft.

 

check out Raytec IR products. But keep in mind if you want to light up something 50m away you need a illuminator rated at 150m.

 

http://www.rayteccctv.com/

 

What cameras have you been looking at?

 

If you don't have a current solution I would recommend a Mobotix m12. You can install a SD card and store the images in the camera.

 

Everything is built in to the camera. No DVR/NVRs, software licenses, camera housings required to buy.

 

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_US/content/view/full/4648

Edited September 13, 2009 by Guest

[cglaeser 0]

The camera will be mounted on the side of the house and ideally could "see" 100-150' at night

 

I'll leave it to someone else to address the use of a night vision camera, but to illuminate 100-150' with IR for a day/night security camera requires one of the better IR illuminators. I have a RayMax 50 combined with a Axis 223M. The 223M night sensitivity is not that great, and the RayMax 50 manages to illuminate to 50' with 90 degree coverage. The distance could be significantly increased if matched with a better low-light camera. The RayMax 50 costs about $500.

 

To achieve 100-150', you could narrow the coverage angle, get a more powerful IR illuminator, and get a better low-light camera.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

The camera will be mounted on the side of the house and ideally could "see" 100-150' at night

 

I'll leave it to someone else to address the use of a night vision camera, but to illuminate 100-150' with IR for a day/night security camera requires one of the better IR illuminators. I have a RayMax 50 combined with a Axis 223M. The 223M night sensitivity is not that great, and the RayMax 50 manages to illuminate to 50' with 90 degree coverage. The distance could be significantly increased if matched with a better low-light camera. The RayMax 50 costs about $500.

 

To achieve 100-150', you could narrow the coverage angle, get a more powerful IR illuminator, and get a better low-light camera.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Your distance will not increase with a better low-light camera but your image quality will. If you want greater range you will need a more powerful IR illuminator. If you want IP I would recommend a camera with a dedicated night imager like the Arecont 3130 or the Mobotix cameras for the best results.

[cglaeser 0]

Your distance will not increase with a better low-light camera but your image quality will.

 

What does that mean??? Let's assume the camera and IR source are more or less co-located and the majority (or all) of the light comes from the IR source. The lux value measured at some distance from an IR illuminator will decrease as an inverse function of the distance squared. For example, if the lux value of a light source is 0.04 at 50', the lux value will be 0.01 at 100' (double the distance means 1/4 the lux value). If camera 1 is rated for 0.04 lux and camera 2 is rated at 0.01 lux using the same testing criteria, then camera 2 will have comparable images to camera 1 at twice the distance.

 

Call it "image quality" or call it "it's too dark to see that far", cameras with poor low light / IR sensitivity will not be able to see objects as far as cameras with better low-light / IR sensitivity.

 

This means that if the camera has poor IR sensitivity, you will have to buy a much bigger IR source compared to a camera that has excellent IR sensitivity. The Axis 223M can see objects reasonably well at 50' using a RayMax 50 with a 1/50 shutter speed, but can't see objects at 100' at 1/50. To see objects at 100' would require 4x power output. A RayMax 200 should do the job. On the other hand, you could get a better low-light camera. I have not tested the 3130, but I expect it could easily see objects at 100' using the lower power RayMax 50.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

Your distance will not increase with a better low-light camera but your image quality will.

 

What does that mean??? Let's assume the camera and IR source are more or less co-located and the majority (or all) of the light comes from the IR source. The lux value measured at some distance from an IR illuminator will decrease as an inverse function of the distance squared. For example, if the lux value of a light source is 0.04 at 50', the lux value will be 0.01 at 100' (double the distance means 1/4 the lux value). If camera 1 is rated for 0.04 lux and camera 2 is rated at 0.01 lux using the same testing criteria, then camera 2 will have comparable images to camera 1 at twice the distance.

 

Call it "image quality" or call it "it's too dark to see that far", cameras with poor low light / IR sensitivity will not be able to see objects as far as cameras with better low-light / IR sensitivity.

 

This means that if the camera has poor IR sensitivity, you will have to buy a much bigger IR source compared to a camera that has excellent IR sensitivity. The Axis 223M can see objects reasonably well at 50' using a RayMax 50 with a 1/50 shutter speed, but can't see objects at 100' at 1/50. To see objects at 100' would require 4x power output. A RayMax 200 should do the job. On the other hand, you could get a better low-light camera. I have not tested the 3130, but I expect it could easily see objects at 100' using the lower power RayMax 50.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

I was referring to the range of the IR illuminator. If it is rated at 50M it doesn't matter what camera you have you will not see beyond 50M.

[cglaeser 0]

I was referring to the range of the IR illuminator. If it is rated at 50M it doesn't matter what camera you have you will not see beyond 50M.

 

I have discussed IR distance specifications with several camera manufacturers and IR manufacturers. These distance specs are quite arbitrary. They can have some meaning within one manufacturer's lineup of IR illuminators (e.g. comparing a RayMax 50 with a RayMax 100), but can't really be compared across different manufacturers (e.g. RayMax versus supercheap bullet IR source). So, don't attach too much meaning to that "50M" figure. Some of those figures are dramatically inflated.

 

Unfortunately, with no industry standards for IR sensitivity for camera manufacturers and no industry standards for IR power for IR manufacturers, in the end, you really don't have much to go on except personal experiences. How well will camera A work with IR source B? You really can't tell from the specs. You have to try the combination or ask someone who has tried the combination.

 

But all that aside, better IR sensitivity means you will be able to see objects at a greater distance for the same IR source.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6122

[rory 0]

Is there a camera out there that does decent daytime pics and "passable" night time pics - where there is NO light (farmers field). I see numerous IR cams but the one I have only illuminates about 15 feet. Night vision does not have to be excellent, if I can make out wildlife passing I would be thrilled.

 

I have read MANY threads, but there is a definite lack of night vision, posted image samples...could somebody please help me out? Im ready to buy but dont want to pay close to $1000 for an IP camera that is useless at night, especially with the long dark nights approaching...

 

Much appreciated, Magohn

 

If its a wide open area with very little reflective objects in the FOV definitely you will want a separate powerful IR source, possibly 2.

 

I would suggest something like the Extreme CCTV UF500 to flood the area. You can get it in different beam widths such as 10, 30, 60 degrees as well as different filters. The greater the filter though the shorter the distance, so if you can stick with at least 800nm range. I havent used it in a couple years and the bulbs do require changing every couple years as its hallogen, but they work. There is also the UF600 and maybe even newer models, check Bosch's website as they own the company now.

 

All cameras are different, so check the specs good and if you want to go 900 range make sure it specifically says it supports that. I cant speak for IP cameras though.

 

Lower you mount the IR the better but keep above objects obviously. I have withdrawn from using IR over the past year and dont use it unless I must, if you do, wear shades and protect your eyes regardless of how powerful the IR is, my eyes have not been the same after years of adjusting IR in the field, no actual damage per say, but definite strong painful sensitivity to light now. Use visible lighting wherever you can, as you will also get a better image. Invisible IR is also very dangerous, especially with the powerul IRs. I used the 940nm UF500, that was kind of scary, also you loose ALOT of IR distance. You can up the power some more to help but then you burn more power.

 

Diagram for example distances and widths:

UF500 is rated for approx 490'.

Have to stay at least 3' away from it or it can physically burn you.

 

Example with dual 10 degree 830nm UF500s and True Day Night Box Camera.

 

i single 10 degree UF500 - note the beam pointed at the ground

 

Example of 100' IR rated camera with 30 degree beam (Ex82) Solarized:

 

Example of 830nm UF100 IR Bulb with 60 degree beam Solarized and True Day Night Box Camera:

 

^how dark that area is without IR/direct IR:

 

more:

[CCTVguru1 0]

Is there a camera out there that does decent daytime pics and "passable" night time pics - where there is NO light (farmers field). I see numerous IR cams but the one I have only illuminates about 15 feet. Night vision does not have to be excellent, if I can make out wildlife passing I would be thrilled.

 

I have read MANY threads, but there is a definite lack of night vision, posted image samples...could somebody please help me out? Im ready to buy but dont want to pay close to $1000 for an IP camera that is useless at night, especially with the long dark nights approaching...

 

Much appreciated, Magohn

 

If you look at the analogue world of cameras, a good day night camera will cost $500 - $1000.

The probability of getting an equivalent in an IP model for $1000 is not great.

There are products out there but in my oppinion they don't come close to the good analogues.

I am waiting for IndigoVisions new 11000 series HD that will be 25ips 720p resolution with true day night switching. Its ment to be out in November.

[magohn 0]

Thanks all - especially for the posted pis - very impressive. I will go and check out the suggestions...