Neighborhood CCTV

[Scruit 0]

You are pushing the limits of the REG-X then. 15'-25', I believe they are good for.

 

And IIRC North Carolina is a one-plate-state? So southbound cars would not have a front plate to read. You could only read the rear plates from northbound cars.

 

I'd get out there with a tape measure and make sure that the rear plate of northbound cars is well within 25' of the post, even if the car is driving on it's own side of the road rather than dead center.

 

Does this neighbor have a mailbox you can mount the cam to instead of a seperate post? That would put it at a nice height, allow it to blend in a little, and put it as close to the road as possible for a closer read.

[rory 0]

What if someone steals it? It has to be mounted low to capture the plates.

And they say 25' but id aim more for a max of around 20'

[Scruit 0]

What if someone steals it? It has to be mounted low to capture the plates.

And they say 25' but id aim more for a max of around 20'

 

Theft is definitely a risk. I'm thinking it can be installed discreetly though, because it is small and dark.

 

If you install it on a pole on its own then it will stick out like a sore thumb. If you mount it under the mailbox at the back of the pole then it won't be as obvious.

[tomcctv 187]

i think this post has gone way off base . and has major problems. to the point it is going to be a waste of money.

 

both the camera and the dvr specs dont match. it never works putting a good res camera with a budget dvr.

 

remember that camera is designed only to pick licence plates .... it will not give you the original colour of the car.

and in your application i think you need more that just trying to catch the licence plate. say they remove the plate or cover it up. your system is usless.

 

i would go back to a good box camera get as much detail info of any car in the area this way you will get more info as poss.

 

1, licence plate (with a good lens)

2, colour of car

3, marks on car i.e stickers / type of wheels / bumps dents all of which help

[Scruit 0]

i think this post has gone way off base . and has major problems. to the point it is going to be a waste of money.

 

both the camera and the dvr specs dont match. it never works putting a good res camera with a budget dvr.

 

remember that camera is designed only to pick licence plates .... it will not give you the original colour of the car.

and in your application i think you need more that just trying to catch the licence plate. say they remove the plate or cover it up. your system is usless.

 

i would go back to a good box camera get as much detail info of any car in the area this way you will get more info as poss.

 

1, licence plate (with a good lens)

2, colour of car

3, marks on car i.e stickers / type of wheels / bumps dents all of which help

 

He said he's going with both:

 

Well, it looks like my plan is starting to come together... I'll use that REG-X-816-XE for capturing plates, one of CNB's WDRs for car detail.

 

Color/make/model/dents etc are great for evidentiary reasons, but not they won't lead you directly to the bad guy unless they get the image on TV and someone recognizes the car. I like the approach of going with the professional cam for LPR and the WDR box cam for vehicle description.

 

 

What DVR would you recommend? I personally would lean toward a unit with good remote access capabilities so that there are multiple neighbors who can recover video if needed. It would suck to have to wait for one neighbor to get back from a trip before you could get the video you need.

 

 

Oh, and bear in mind that this system only lets you see who came and went. It won't prove they actually did anything, even if they are the only car that entered the area at the time or a break-in. It would give the police a lead to follow up on to go have a friendly chat with someone, but don't expect a search warrant based solely on this footage.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Guest

[rory 0]

Down here it seems LPR is useless, most criminals are driving stolen vehicles, and even if you get a licence plate the cops dont seem to be able to do much with it. Anyway here the courts let off cold blooded murderers by giving them just 2-3 years in prison .. so the courts are pretty useless here.

[tomcctv 187]

the probem is the REG-X-816-XE it is very short range. max is 7m. looking at the drawings the camera will already be at its max just to get to the road. say its 4m to the road that leaves 3m. the dvr will have to be 30fps just to get one image. and i think 9 out of 10 it will miss. remember this is a black image camera it only does licence plates everything else is black. this camera is only good at close up work 4 to 7m max.

 

putting a $1000 camera onto a $300 dvr is just not going to work.

 

[Scruit 0]

the probem is the REG-X-816-XE it is very short range. max is 7m. looking at the drawings the camera will already be at its max just to get to the road. say its 4m to the road that leaves 3m. the dvr will have to be 30fps just to get one image. and i think 9 out of 10 it will miss. remember this is a black image camera it only does licence plates everything else is black. this camera is only good at close up work 4 to 7m max.

 

putting a $1000 camera onto a $300 dvr is just not going to work.

 

 

Max is 7.6m according to http://resource.boschsecurity.com/documents/REG-XClose-rang_DataSheet_enUS_T5005531019.pdf which is 25'

 

I already said he was pushing it with the range which is why there is still some tweaking needed in the layout.

 

So you don't like cheap DVRs. Fine. I ask again, what DVR would you recommend?

 

I would stay away from AVTech/CPCam because their remote access is a joke. The only other DVR I've had experience with is the Aver EH5216. I like it a lot. Remote access is quite nice. Maybe a 4-channel variant of this would be good. Or a simple eb1304?

[bpzle 0]

I have a turnkey setup to do exactly what you need... Works great. PM me for details.

[Birdman Adam 0]

-Even on the separate post, The max height of the LP camera was going to be ~3', with the normal camera above it at ~4'. We have some people who like to play mailbox baseball, so having the valuable camera lower on the pole reduces risk of damage. The vandal-resistant dome should kick away a bat easily:

 

-This post would be mounted fairly close to the road, on the neighbors land. Probably 1-3' from the edge of the road.

 

-I know I'm only catching plates in one direction, because NC only requires rear plates. Our neighborhood is a straight entrance street, with a 1 mile loop at the other end of it. This is the only road in or out.

 

 

-Both the DVRs I have suggested so far will record both channels at 15FPS each D1 resolution.

 

-I really don't need any networking capabilities, as there isn't a point in live viewing a license plate camera.

 

-Once I get familiar with what ever DVR I choose, I will be making a simple 'instruction manual' on how to retrieve data, so anyone can get the video even if I'm not there.

 

-Can DVR's be set to start back up after a power outage? This is really necessary as we have a lot of power blips long enough to shut computer and the like down. I know in computers you can set auto-power-restart in BIOS?

 

-Oh, and I know this only shows who came and went. Coupled with the multiple separate systems individual homeowners have (including mine), identifying cars shouldn't be a problem. In the event of a crime, we can eliminate cars one by one until we have a list of unknown cars left. Would only really be 1-2 at the most.

[tomcctv 187]

thats the problem with sale mans videos ..................looks good .................hit with a bat set fire. ran over with a car. great........................thats just the caseing .............first hit with the hammer will kill the camera lens

[Birdman Adam 0]

I'm not sure what I could really do to help that... I can't really put a bullet in an enclosure, I can't mount it high, because plate capture won't be good.

 

The actual chances of someone getting out of a car to hit the low mounted bullet camera instead of the vandal-dome are pretty low. Even the chances of a simple mailbox-baseball incident most likely won't happen.

 

Also, I'd have to check, but we may have insurance that would apply to the setup.

[Scruit 0]

-This post would be mounted fairly close to the road, on the neighbors land. Probably 1-3' from the edge of the road.

 

Just be careful you don't mount the pole too close to the road. Between teh telephone poles is considered the right-of-way for the highway. And ensure it is a break away design.

 

 

-I know I'm only catching plates in one direction, because NC only requires rear plates. Our neighborhood is a straight entrance street, with a 1 mile loop at the other end of it. This is the only road in or out.

 

I would probably opt to put the camera on the side of the road so that you are looking at the back of the car in the nearest lane. But so it still covers your neighbor's driveway. So move the post closer to the main road but turn it facing away from the main road so you catch cars as they enter the subdivision.

 

-Both the DVRs I have suggested so far will record both channels at 15FPS each D1 resolution.

 

Yes, but do they get 15fps by using an extreme compression that loses too much detail to keep the plate #. Better DVRs will have a better playback image with more retained detail.

-I really don't need any networking capabilities, as there isn't a point in live viewing a license plate camera.

 

What will you do if that neighbor is not home when you need the footage? Or is out of town? Network access will allow you to download the video for the police from your own home. Or from the homes of a couple of other nominated operators. You don't need to watch it live, you just need to be able to get the plate# to the police as quickly as possible when something happens.

 

Remote access also means that more than one person can be given the task of checking to make sure there are no problem. At the very least I would log in to the DVR once a week and just make sure it's ok. In my home system I can see the 16-way screen on my TV in the den, and I usually glance at it every couple of days just long enough to make sure all 16 cameras are working ok. About once a week I will search for recorded video for two reasons: (1) So I know it is recording ok, and (2) so I keep in practice and am not trying to learn how to export video in a real situation.

 

-Can DVR's be set to start back up after a power outage? This is really necessary as we have a lot of power blips long enough to shut computer and the like down. I know in computers you can set auto-power-restart in BIOS?

 

Get a 750 va UPS to smooth out the power outages <15 mins. For longer power outages, any reasonable DVR will start up again after power loss.

 

-Oh, and I know this only shows who came and went. Coupled with the multiple separate systems individual homeowners have (including mine), identifying cars shouldn't be a problem. In the event of a crime, we can eliminate cars one by one until we have a list of unknown cars left. Would only really be 1-2 at the most.

 

Perfect!

[Birdman Adam 0]

-I'll go with a weaker post. Safer in an accident, plus if someone whacks it, may fall over and satisfy them instead of getting out to beat it.

 

-Moving the camera downhill some and looking the other way is a great idea. That will reduce my angle some, and cars will be going slower in and up the hill. Plus, if someone has just robbed a house, they would drive out quick, not drive in quick.

 

-Since the DVR location will be near networking anyways, I'll go ahead and tie in with their router & set up DDNS host to their modem. That is a good idea to be able to test weekly, and other homeowners can be in on it too.

 

-I'll look into a UPS (750VA) as well!

[Scruit 0]

-I'll go with a weaker post. Safer in an accident, plus if someone whacks it, may fall over and satisfy them instead of getting out to beat it.

 

If you use a piece of 4x4 pressure treated lumber it will be plenty strong enough and still break away in an accident. Concrete it down below the frost line and you're golden.

 

Also, how about putting a fake bird house on it hide the cameras inside it? That will make the install discreet but still give passers-by a good reason for the pole being there.

 

-Moving the camera downhill some and looking the other way is a great idea. That will reduce my angle some, and cars will be going slower in and up the hill. Plus, if someone has just robbed a house, they would drive out quick, not drive in quick.

 

I agree with the enter-slow leave-fast principle. Especially if they have been spooked away from the house they robbed - they may pass through the cam too quickly. Much more likely to drive in slow.

 

 

-I'll look into a UPS (750VA) as well!

 

 

I have a CP1000AVRLCD from CyberPower. It's 1000va and keeps my DVR and half my cameras running for ~20 minutes. Cost is a little over $100. Walmart has them.

[Birdman Adam 0]

The thing I'm debating right now is; if the DVR can start right back up after a few second outage, do I really need a UPS? I suppose its going to stop the DVR from having to start back up after every little blip.

[Soundy 1]

The thing I'm debating right now is; if the DVR can start right back up after a few second outage, do I really need a UPS? I suppose its going to stop the DVR from having to start back up after every little blip.

A UPS will still help with power filtering and will protect the DVR from even slight brownouts. For the cost of a basic SOHO UPS (<$100), there's no reason not to.

[Scruit 0]

The thing I'm debating right now is; if the DVR can start right back up after a few second outage, do I really need a UPS? I suppose its going to stop the DVR from having to start back up after every little blip.

 

 

It will take the DVR time to start back up. Some take a minute or more to boot up. also, if the DVR uses drive caching then you might lose video or corrupt the hard drive. Even if the DVR doesn't use caching, the hard drive probably caches on the controller and you could lose that. I've had DVRs that car survive a power outage with no problems, but I've also had a couple where every so often the hard drive would become corrupt after the sudden power loss.

 

For several reasons it's a good idea to avoid having the DVR lose power suddenly. Imagine sitting there in front of a homeowner that has been burgled and you can't produce the video because the hard drive is corrupt. For $100 it just makes sense.

[tomcctv 187]

-Even on the separate post, The max height of the LP camera was going to be ~3', with the normal camera above it at ~4'. We have some people who like to play mailbox baseball, so having the valuable camera lower on the pole reduces risk of damage. The vandal-resistant dome should kick away a bat easily:

 

-This post would be mounted fairly close to the road, on the neighbors land. Probably 1-3' from the edge of the road.

 

-I know I'm only catching plates in one direction, because NC only requires rear plates. Our neighborhood is a straight entrance street, with a 1 mile loop at the other end of it. This is the only road in or out.

 

 

-Both the DVRs I have suggested so far will record both channels at 15FPS each D1 resolution.

 

-I really don't need any networking capabilities, as there isn't a point in live viewing a license plate camera.

 

-Once I get familiar with what ever DVR I choose, I will be making a simple 'instruction manual' on how to retrieve data, so anyone can get the video even if I'm not there.

 

-Can DVR's be set to start back up after a power outage? This is really necessary as we have a lot of power blips long enough to shut computer and the like down. I know in computers you can set auto-power-restart in BIOS?

 

-Oh, and I know this only shows who came and went. Coupled with the multiple separate systems individual homeowners have (including mine), identifying cars shouldn't be a problem. In the event of a crime, we can eliminate cars one by one until we have a list of unknown cars left. Would only really be 1-2 at the most.

 

 

 

 

most dvrs will auto reboot now. the problem you are going to have is what make to use.

 

and i will go back to the bosh camera again. am reading the spec for the camera and the engineers set-up

 

dvr should record 2cif or 4cif ............ the camera will not work with D1 and will need to run 30fps.

 

 

this system design is going to cost a lot of money if it was your own then yes TRY it out. but upto now nothing matches the camera and dvrs that have been listed are not compatible.

 

 

 

and also the points of the camera being stolen or damaged. this is only because you have to mount it low because of the type of camera you are using. no camera should be installed in arms reach.

[rory 0]

The thing I'm debating right now is; if the DVR can start right back up after a few second outage, do I really need a UPS? I suppose its going to stop the DVR from having to start back up after every little blip.

whatever you do you want AVR otherwise dont be surprised when the hard drive fails prematurely. Most UPS also have AVR built in, or you can buy it separate. I rarely use UPS now though as they sometimes dont start back up. This is a worst case scenario down here though, an AVR is a must here.

[rory 0]

For several reasons it's a good idea to avoid having the DVR lose power suddenly. Imagine sitting there in front of a homeowner that has been burgled and you can't produce the video because the hard drive is corrupt. For $100 it just makes sense.

 

I cant agree with that 100%, ive been pulling the plug on my computers for years now even back to the Win ME days .. although with Win ME other issues arrised .. but other than that, pulling the plug or every other day power outages, with no UPS, and I never get any file corruption ... unless ofcourse you have an opened document. Do I recommend pulling the plug? No, but neither do I recommend working 48 hours with no sleep .. and yet I still do that.

[Scruit 0]

For several reasons it's a good idea to avoid having the DVR lose power suddenly. Imagine sitting there in front of a homeowner that has been burgled and you can't produce the video because the hard drive is corrupt. For $100 it just makes sense.

 

I cant agree with that 100%, ive been pulling the plug on my computers for years now even back to the Win ME days .. although with Win ME other issues arrised .. but other than that, pulling the plug or every other day power outages, with no UPS, and I never get any file corruption ... unless ofcourse you have an opened document. Do I recommend pulling the plug? No, but neither do I recommend working 48 hours with no sleep .. and yet I still do that.

 

 

My day job is a Systems Engineer and Database Administrator - basically I build datacenter server systems for a living. I regularly see servers having problems when power is suddenly lost. The question is, can the OS and/or application recover from that when it starts back up. Can it rebuild the indexes / files etc back to where you were? If so, then you're fine. If not, then you've lost something. Just depends on if it was something important. When your PC boots back up into CHKDSK it's becuase the data on the drive was corrupt. If you've never lost any data then you have been lucky. (My stepfather used to drive home from the pub drunk every sunday - he never crashed into any other cars. That was just luck too)

 

I have an 8-year-old DVR from "All about Image Recognition and Processing" which will corrupt 50% of the time of it loses power. The hd shows up as blank. I also used to have a CPD576W that would be ok with power loss but every once in a while the HD would show up as blank when it came back up.

[Scruit 0]

-Even on the separate post, The max height of the LP camera was going to be ~3', with the normal camera above it at ~4'. We have some people who like to play mailbox baseball, so having the valuable camera lower on the pole reduces risk of damage. The vandal-resistant dome should kick away a bat easily:

 

-This post would be mounted fairly close to the road, on the neighbors land. Probably 1-3' from the edge of the road.

 

-I know I'm only catching plates in one direction, because NC only requires rear plates. Our neighborhood is a straight entrance street, with a 1 mile loop at the other end of it. This is the only road in or out.

 

 

-Both the DVRs I have suggested so far will record both channels at 15FPS each D1 resolution.

 

-I really don't need any networking capabilities, as there isn't a point in live viewing a license plate camera.

 

-Once I get familiar with what ever DVR I choose, I will be making a simple 'instruction manual' on how to retrieve data, so anyone can get the video even if I'm not there.

 

-Can DVR's be set to start back up after a power outage? This is really necessary as we have a lot of power blips long enough to shut computer and the like down. I know in computers you can set auto-power-restart in BIOS?

 

-Oh, and I know this only shows who came and went. Coupled with the multiple separate systems individual homeowners have (including mine), identifying cars shouldn't be a problem. In the event of a crime, we can eliminate cars one by one until we have a list of unknown cars left. Would only really be 1-2 at the most.

 

 

 

 

most dvrs will auto reboot now. the problem you are going to have is what make to use.

 

and i will go back to the bosh camera again. am reading the spec for the camera and the engineers set-up

 

dvr should record 2cif or 4cif ............ the camera will not work with D1 and will need to run 30fps.

 

 

this system design is going to cost a lot of money if it was your own then yes TRY it out. but upto now nothing matches the camera and dvrs that have been listed are not compatible.

 

 

 

and also the points of the camera being stolen or damaged. this is only because you have to mount it low because of the type of camera you are using. no camera should be installed in arms reach.

 

What DVR do you recommend? (version 3.0)

 

What is the effective difference between 4CIF and D1? Why will 4CIF work but D1 not work?

 

If he goes with an EB1304 SATA for about $350 then he had 60fps D1 and can set the LPR channel to 30fps, and the car ID channel to 30fps, leaving the other 2 channels unused.

 

You can't jsut keep saying "This DVR won't work, that DVR won't work..." without telling us which DVR you think *will* work.

[rory 0]

 

 

My day job is a Systems Engineer and Database Administrator - basically I build datacenter server systems for a living. I regularly see servers having problems when power is suddenly lost. The question is, can the OS and/or application recover from that when it starts back up. Can it rebuild the indexes / files etc back to where you were? If so, then you're fine. If not, then you've lost something. Just depends on if it was something important. When your PC boots back up into CHKDSK it's becuase the data on the drive was corrupt. If you've never lost any data then you have been lucky. (My stepfather used to drive home from the pub drunk every sunday - he never crashed into any other cars. That was just luck too)

 

I have an 8-year-old DVR from "All about Image Recognition and Processing" which will corrupt 50% of the time of it loses power. The hd shows up as blank. I also used to have a CPD576W that would be ok with power loss but every once in a while the HD would show up as blank when it came back up.

 

Well Im not running a server, its just a home PC. If I was I would have solar and a backup generator anyway. I also dont use any kind of Indexing, neither are most of my clients. I havent seen a check disk in years, even though I also repair client's computers, perhaps its the way I setup XP? Anyway Ive been using AVRs all these years, never a UPS, and during the summer months we have at least a couple hours of outages every other day - instant off. I wouldnt call it luck, I Just dont use any apps that can get corrupted, or if I do the app auto saves or I save every time there is a major change. For example Quickbooks, instant down on that and yes their data gets corrupt, but hey I dont use quickbooks. Visual Basic, same scenerio, must save any time we do a major change. Hey I pull the plug sometimes just to see if the program will still work, thats what I do.

 

But what I have seen and its not unlucky, is a number of UPS from APC and Triplite that dont send power back to the device, and for that reason alone I stopped using UPS with DVRs. We always use AVRs though as without them the HDD wont last a week. And with a variation of DVRs just on AVR and no UPS, even with non stop major power outages and brownouts that we have here, no issues - although at one client 2 of their AVRs were totally fried during a major brownout but at least it stopped at them, unlike UPS in the past where I have seen it go right through them.

 

I also had an Avtech 4 channel (Cpcam) for a couple years, never on a UPS, never had a problem with loss of data on that either, at least if there was any it would have been what it was saving when the power went off.

 

Now onto Geovision, when it reboots from a power down it also rebuilds any data, if anything you would loose what was recording at the time. I much rather that than the DVR not coming back on and not knowing this until an incident occurs and we go looking for video.

 

Not to mention, if the power goes off, in 10-20 minutes the UPS is going to die anyway, and then its the same as pulling the plug - no UPS management with basic DVRs.

 

Now that said, if the power goes off before I submit this message then I have to write it all over again

[Birdman Adam 0]

-I agree that I should have 30FPS on at least the LP camera, and preferably on the WDR cam as well.

 

-So sounds like most DVRs will auto-restart.

 

-I will go with a UPS, sounds like its worth it.

 

-That EB1304 looks like a good DVR! Anyone have first-hand experience? How about compression?

Looks like I would have to buy hard drive separate? Looks like they have a good list of recommended models.