Where is it all going to end

[Numb-nuts 1]

As a professionals, I am happy to give pointers and help solve problems of other professionals and of course read their opinions and experiences. What are we all doing to our industry though,. It seems that everyday more and more business owners or their appointed IT people, are coming onto this forum and asking advice from the vevry people they want to deny a living . WHY THE HELL ARE WE HELPING THESE PEOPLE?

 

It started out with the professionals giving help and advice to the DIY home system users, that I feel is okay and has minimal effect on out livings, but we have to contend with idiots that suck the blood from our industry by selling equipment at ridiculously low mark-up and adding no value, i.e. not technical support nor installation and maintenance.

 

So far as I am concerned, business owners who come on here and ask the professionals for help and advice how they can avoid paying the very people they want help from are just too cheeky.

 

Go stick it in yer' ear

[tomcctv 187]

WHY THE HELL ARE WE HELPING THESE PEOPLE?

 

 

its a forum.

 

I take it business is slow or your new company has not taken off as expected. ....... giving advice on the forum. is world wide 80% of the posts are 3.5 to 6000 miles away from you so has no impact on your company.

 

 

It started out with the professionals giving help and advice to the DIY home system users, that I feel is okay and has minimal effect on out livings,

 

 

it does not matter if a DIYer or a PRO ..... the industry changes quick at the moment its not like 20 years ago. even a PRO needs to know about new products and instead of going out and buying everything new just to try is not a option. a forum brings all that info for free and in most cases better than a manufactures website as you get REAL sample shots of camera footage or links to new software.

 

 

but we have to contend with idiots that suck the blood from our industry by selling equipment at ridiculously low mark-up and adding no value, i.e. not technical support nor installation and maintenance.

 

this will always be a problem if you sell budget systems. with the power of google customers WILL always find the true price of budget systems. does not matter how much you put on to for tech support. customers always look for the budget price.

 

a company can not make a long time business from budget systems there is no margin in it to make a company grow. there ok as a fill in to keep engineers in a job. but its big contract systems and full PRO systems that make money.

 

 

So far as I am concerned, business owners who come on here and ask the professionals for help and advice how they can avoid paying the very people they want help from are just too cheeky.

 

 

it helped you just over 18 months ago. you was a DIYer looking for help. it does look easy to start your own company but you need alot more than 18 months to understand the industry.

 

I am planning to get myself a PTZ dome very soon, so I can monitor a youth loitering hot-spot

in the alley next to my home

 

Hope to pick up a few tips here as well as make a small contribution to assist where I can.

 

Regards Mark

[vector18 1]

Welcome to the world of the internet. I myself whenever I enter a store to purchase something, I pull out

my Iphone and click on safari and see who has the cheapest price. Everyone including yourself works hard

for their money and should have the right to try to save some of it. If they want to install a cctv system

by themselves and ask us for help, so be it. The world is a huge place and what are the chances someone

in my neighborhood would have called me to install their system if this forum did not exist?

[Numb-nuts 1]

Like I said, I have no objection to helping advising Home Users with their DIY projects.

 

But the gall of business owners who ask for assistance from the very people they are attempting to deny a living.

 

The internet is a great medium there's no denying it and everyone I know uses it to check the price,

but life is not all bout how much you spend That is a short sighted view. There is such a thing as value added service and that COSTS MONEY. What value to box shifters add to the idustry, NONE they simply bleed it for what they can get from it and put nothing back in.

[Wadsworth 0]

It will end Dec 21 of this year, according to my YouTube searches for that date

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

Like I said, I have no objection to helping advising Home Users with their DIY projects.

 

But the gall of business owners who ask for assistance from the very people they are attempting to deny a living.

you seem to think all business owners are rolling cash that and they're just aching to spend it on everyone but you. the majority of businesses these days are barely getting by and need to save money wherever they can. if you want to cater to them, you have to use a different approach than simply assuming they're willing to pay you whatever you ask for your services.

[ak357 0]

you seem to think all business owners are rolling cash that and they're just aching to spend it on everyone but you. the majority of businesses these days are barely getting by and need to save money wherever they can. if you want to cater to them, you have to use a different approach than simply assuming they're willing to pay you whatever you ask for your services.

? for GrouchoBoucho

are you doing CCTV for living or End user ?

Thx

[ssnapier 0]

IMO goodwill and pleasantries will go a long way. Are you actually worried about local competitors stealing business from you because of this forum? If so... well nevermind, I just don't see that as a huge concern.

[Numb-nuts 1]

I have no gripes about playing on a level playing field. Thats all I would like to see. I don't feel any animosity towards my competitors that are selling a CCTV service same as me. Customers are free to choose, but I don't like those that play dirty tricks to win business and there aren't many here most of the businesses here work in a thoroughly ethical way.

 

If I do encounter unethical practice, I walk away now and don't get into wrangling over it and losing sleep.

I was asked to undercut the price of someone that had undercut my price by about 5% but I sowed the seeds of discontentbetween the client and the competitor, telling the client if I were going to undercut the other guys price it would have been by at least 25%. He eventually used another contractor who he knocked for the money. These people are so small minded, and stupid, why hold out for the best price when you are planning to screw the seller for the money?

[yakky 0]

You have to look at it from both sides. A customer is not doing his due diligence if they don't shop for the best value in their eyes. If you aren't showing them what value you provide compared to your competitor, you are the one that is failing.

[shockwave199 0]

I think it's a symptom of bad installers, generally speaking. Take the company I work for. They have an installer come in. They recommend so-so gear, probably because they can pad the cost of it all to increase profit. That little gem is wrapped up in the little white lie that the added cost is worth it because of the customer service from the manufacturer. I've yet to seen truly great customer service from gear manufacturers. Then you have to rely on the installer actually doing a good, proper install. One which will stay solid for the long haul. Will they actually spend the time and aim the cameras just so? Will they take the time to try and set the cameras per location for the best settings beyond defaults? Do they even really know the cameras they're hanging? Will they put importance on night images, arguably the most important and trickiest settings to get right, per location? Will they be interested in servicing your location in the long run, when cameras may fail, dvr's may choke, or wires and connections may fail? Or will they suddenly stop coming to the rescue.

 

When the multi thousands are spent and perhaps 15 months or so goes by and things aren't aimed right, set right, and start to fail, and service takes weeks or longer, you start hitting up forums for answers. If it's bad enough, you take matters into your own hands. Or you put an employee in charge of the system, if you're lucky enough to have one that can do it, or cares to do it. That would be me, in our case. Coincidentally, I monitor the whole system as my job. I've already saved the company thousands in service calls just to aim and tweak cameras that were essentially a hang and run. And I'll be purchasing and installing further cameras as well. Necessity, not just because.

 

If you provide exceptional service, it won't matter what's happening on forums- which by the way is a very, very small world compared. Don't concern yourself with this minutia here. Concern yourself with superb service. That's the best insurance policy for your business. Otherwise you can be sure, we'll do it ourselves one way or another.

 

[Numb-nuts 1]

You have to look at it from both sides. A customer is not doing his due diligence if they don't shop for the best value in their eyes. If you aren't showing them what value you provide compared to your competitor, you are the one that is failing.

 

You have a point there, but to be fair to myself, I am a technician and not a salesman, but I am learning very fast. I can win people's trust very quickly and they for the most part, seem to like me and my attitude. I wanted to be a technician to avoid being a salesman but it seems to have backfired on me by going the independent route. Still for every freedom there is a price to pay and dealing with the public is that price.I can handle it though.

 

I am learning not to get so worked up about people's behavior, although I still feel a little outraged, it's diminishing.

It's all part of doing business and the best solution is to not waste energy getting upset but to just move on and find other more deserving prospects of which there are an abundance.

[Toaster 0]

WHY THE HELL ARE WE HELPING THESE PEOPLE?

 

That attitude is terrible. If you don't like helping or contributing here on this forum, or on any forum - then don't. It's a free forum and a free country - You decide to help or not, but complaining about it, well... that's your burden to bare.

 

What I'm taking away from this thread so far is you started out as a DIY, decided somewhere along the way it was fairly easy work, you obviously took to it and understood it, and figured you could perhaps make a living or least a few extra bucks from going in to business doing this.. and that's fine. So you YOURSELF started out here looking for advice, and now decide to publicly lash out about that very topic. As someone else pointed out, if a failed business venture is your motivation, you've got a lot to learn about being an independent business owner.

 

From personal experience, I'm sure others will agree, no matter what business your in - competition is part of it. And yes, competition from DIY'ers, fly by nights, 5% markup box movers - those are all your competitors. It doesn't matter what the occupation is... CCTV sales and installation, The guy who changes your oil in your car, or the corner grocery store. The key to any successful business is not eliminating your competition, the success comes in offering what they can not get elsewhere. And there will always be customers who waste your time and don't hire you, or don't spend money in your store - again, that's part of it. I'm sure you've done it yourself - how many times have you seen something locally, picked it up, read the box, then put it back and then ordered it cheaper online....? The retailer you originally saw the item at has rent, utility bills, stock and inventory expense, perhaps a sales team or worse is a self owned business, and instead of letting them make 20% or whatever the markup was - you ordered it from ebay or amazon.... We've all done it.

 

Personally I think this forum helps your industry way more than it hurts or undercuts small independent owners of businesses like you. The people who are successful in a TECH BUSINESS are the smart ones who grow, adapt and offer CUSTOMER SERVICE. No business is made by the 1 time sale... All successful businesses have repeat clients, happy clients who up sale you and your product to others for you. Like I said, I'm sorry for your frustrations, but your attitude based on the original post is pretty bad... In the same sense, why is anyone here helping YOU? Maybe you are a competitor in their area? Maybe simply by these guy's helping you they took money out of their pockets? Did anyone tell YOU "NO" ? Or did you get the answers you needed, and ultimately enough knowledge to go it to business ???????

 

Seriously guy, look in the mirror before casting stones.

 

but to be fair to myself, I am a technician and not a salesman, but I am learning very fast. I can win people's trust very quickly and they for the most part, seem to like me and my attitude. I wanted to be a technician to avoid being a salesman but it seems to have backfired on me by going the independent route. Still for every freedom there is a price to pay and dealing with the public is that price.

 

Honestly, it sounds like you are not cut out to be a business owner. By your own admission - you wanted to be a tech to work for someone and not deal with the front end. Let someone else handle the public, and you just get paid to do the work. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Numb-nuts 1]

Thats your opinion!