What's the best surveillance solution for a restaurant?

[BensonD 0]

My brother is going to open up a restaurant. it's about 300m2, i need some dome cameras, ptz for outdoor. what's the best recommendation. like I should get analog or network IP system? what kind of pixel i should be after. I have no idea at all. please share your wisdom

[Boogieman 1]

....

[SunnyKim 2]

I can recommend cheap analog systems. If you can pay a bit more, HD systems with 720P cameras are OK, HD TVI, or HD CVI, or HD-AHD. I do not want recommend IP cameras, which are a lot expensive. Why pay more...

[51cent 8]

Analog is 20th century, ip is 21st century. The latest ip systems will be much better visually than analog. More here,

http://www.cableorganizer.com/articles/ip-cameras-vs-analog-cameras.html

You will be better off a couple of fixed cameras instead of a ptz to cover an area. The fixed cameras will always be watching the area, while a ptz may be aimed the wrong way when you need it.

[tomcctv 187]

Hi. It depends were you are in the world ........ Restaurants in some countries have regulations .

 

 

Also take into account very visible cameras inside a restaurant can take away some of your trade so small is best

 

And please if budget allows which is not as much as others say over analog go with IP

[zr1 0]

Analog (ye olde analog)

Whether D1 or 960H...it's crappy video.

D1 - crappy video of yesteryear

960H - widescreen crappy video

I do zero of these systems now...I fix existing ones, but no installs of new systems for these types...at all anymore.

 

Analog (stop-gap high-def version)

These do give good 1080P-type video. They go by names of TVI, CVI, AHD, SDI, etc. Note: If you go with one of those acronyms, then you stick with that acronym for the entire system.

I prefer these if:

* There's existing coax cable already installed that would be real expensive to recable

or

* There's some really long (1000' type stuff) cable runs to do

But for a new-ground-up system, I say IP.

 

IP system

Uses network (Cat 5e/Cat6) cable

Gives better than 1080P (3 or 4 megapixel cams are great pricing now)

In contrast to the opinion above, I go with IP systems for all of my new-installations (when camera distances aren't way-far). By far the best choice and the best video image. Much better night image, much better facial recognition...even seeing what a person may have in their hand.

The 4 megapixel Hikvision cams will knock your socks off. On a 50" LCD TV, it will not only be crystal clear, but you can even zoom in on the playback image to get more detail to see what's going on.

 

Camera specifics

It's going to depend on the location itself. Where the camera is aimed, is there light (big window, etc.) behind what you're looking at. How far away (telephoto lens needed?) and more.

For a restaurant, it's very common to simply have regular 3.6mm - 4.0mm cameras with maybe one or two wide angle 2.8mm cameras at some points.

A PTZ is fun...and a conversation piece. But unless you have somebody manning the PTZ control, it's easier, more effective, and cheaper, to mount more fixed cameras to give you total coverage.

 

Domes and turrets and bullets and lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

Domes are great for the vandalproof thing. If a camera is within a person's reach, then a dome is much higher on the choice-list.

But for the most part (until we get to specialized telephoto choices), a dome/turret/bullet will have the same performance/capability.

 

Looks:

Other than the dome/vandalproof thing for a low-hanging camera, most of my customers choose their cameras based on how it looks.

Domes - some customers like these because it looks ominous and not as easy to see which way the camera may be pointing.

Turret - my customers seem to choose less of the multi-LED look like this:

And seem to go more with the matrix-LED-style look like this:

No difference for performance in something like a restaurant, but just the look of it. I'm especially getting those matrix-LED-style for professional offices this year.

Bullet - the large bullet cams are what my customers are choosing for outdoor locations.

 

Having a lion, tiger, or bear is a great solution...except they eat the food...and the customer.

[SunnyKim 2]

It is good to have such luxuries. 4 MP IP Cameras. Good for show off. Good for revenues and Profits, for Good Installers.

How much they should pay for Play Back real time for Spot Monitoring, for their 8Ch or 16 Ch IP Cameras of each 4MP resolution? They are Not Even close to 30FPS in real time, play back or recording. Some managers like to see what's going on in Kitchen or Parking lots, in real time, on one or two monitors.

If going for IP cameras, I like to recommend 720P IP cameras which employ the same CMOS sensor as 4MP's and its price has dropped to the rock bottom, well less than a half of 4MP or 3MP's. Why pay more?

[Boogieman 1]

It is good to have such luxuries. 4 MP IP Cameras. Good for show off. Good for revenues and Profits, for Good Installers.

How much they should pay for Play Back real time for Spot Monitoring, for their 8Ch or 16 Ch IP Cameras of each 4MP resolution? They are Not Even close to 30FPS in real time, play back or recording. Some managers like to see what's going on in Kitchen or Parking lots, in real time, on one or two monitors.

If going for IP cameras, I like to recommend 720P IP cameras which employ the same CMOS sensor as 4MP's and its price has dropped to the rock bottom, well less than a half of 4MP or 3MP's. Why pay more?

Why in the world would a restaurant need to playback images at 30fps...15fps is way more than enough (though the cameras can do 20).

Its nice to see that you are now recommending at least 720p...before it was "D1 uses the same sensor"...4mp image will have more pixels per inch than a 720p image, that is a fact despite your claim that the sensor is the same. Maybe the user wants to cover more area with a single camera?

Regardless, the OP can go on youtube and see that he wont be able to tell the difference between 15fps and 30.

Then he can go to youtube and see that 1080p or 4mp is CLEARER than 720p. 4mp will be even clearer.

With IP cameras the image is even better.

When you show me a 720p image from a cheap camera that is as clear as that 3mp video AND covers the same area I will paypal to you $5000 US dollars.

You can keep ranting and raving that its all the same, a video is worth a million words. We can see it with our EYES. Words have no effect. The only reason to consider 720p, would be for indoors if the place is low light, because of the improved night vision.

[SunnyKim 2]

Go and check CMOS sensor engineer at Aptina. 4MP and 720P uses the same image sensor. 4MP simply increased number of pixels. That's why its night (low light) performance can not be as much as expected. But Good because they can charge more. Why pay more... I do not understand 4MP covers more area than NTSC (VGA) camera.

[tomcctv 187]

It is good to have such luxuries

 

Security is not about luxuries .... It's about capture in other words fit for purpose.

 

3mp IP cameras are now low in cost .... We have just had our October price list from dahua and a 3mp camera is £34 (around $53) so your statement on luxury is rubbish.

 

You keep on that op needs 30 fps ..... Are you talking FRAMES fps OR FIELDS fps .......30 fields ps is 15 frames ps ....... Also fields ps and images (ips) are worked out the same

 

But why do you insist on saying IP can't do 30fps as analog IT CAN BUT AS ALREADY STATED ...15fps is good for any application..... 7 to 15 is good and saves HD space

 

So now we have the luxury part sorted out for the op it is still needed to know the ops location ..... In the UK in a bar or restaurant there are regulations on image quality .... Some areas need 7fps some like cash area - entry exit need 12 to 15fps and the image has to be fit for purpose (CLEAR IMAGES)

[SunnyKim 2]

Very interesting to learn that, in UK, they regulate 7 FPS for cash area. Do they also regulate 4 MP in stead of 8MP?

I like to hear your comment on " How much they should pay for Play Back real time for Spot Monitoring, for their 8Ch or 16 Ch IP Cameras of each 4MP resolution?" My point is Why Pay More ...

[Low Profile197 0]

Analog (ye olde analog)

Whether D1 or 960H...it's crappy video.

D1 - crappy video of yesteryear

960H - widescreen crappy video

I do zero of these systems now...I fix existing ones, but no installs of new systems for these types...at all anymore.

 

For light sesitivity if needed not a bad solution, but a well lit restaurant not a first choice indeed

 

 

Analog (stop-gap high-def version)

These do give good 1080P-type video. They go by names of TVI, CVI, AHD, SDI, etc. Note: If you go with one of those acronyms, then you stick with that acronym for the entire system.

I prefer these if:

* There's existing coax cable already installed that would be real expensive to recable

or

* There's some really long (1000' type stuff) cable runs to do

But for a new-ground-up system, I say IP.

 

TVI: impressive with reasonable good images and suitable for longer cables

CVI AHD HDcctv: crappy digital compression, not much better then 960H when using longer length or excisting low quality coax (over 50 meters)

HD-SDI: more expensive (almost same as IP) not suitable for most excisting coax over 50 meters, but very very good images, but not so light sensitive.

 

IP system

Uses network (Cat 5e/Cat6) cable

Gives better than 1080P (3 or 4 megapixel cams are great pricing now)

In contrast to the opinion above, I go with IP systems for all of my new-installations (when camera distances aren't way-far). By far the best choice and the best video image. Much better night image, much better facial recognition...even seeing what a person may have in their hand.

The 4 megapixel Hikvision cams will knock your socks off. On a 50" LCD TV, it will not only be crystal clear, but you can even zoom in on the playback image to get more detail to see what's going on..

 

More pixels means less lightsensitivity and also more problems with depth/sharpness because off the lens needing to open more for letting more light in. downside of IP is the way a sensor is registering the image, it is more suseptable for motionblur. so nice still image but, on replay all the people are blurry. so for me no IP unlees there is no other way. i want to recognice the people in the playback.

 

Camera specifics

It's going to depend on the location itself. Where the camera is aimed, is there light (big window, etc.) behind what you're looking at. How far away (telephoto lens needed?) and more.

For a restaurant, it's very common to simply have regular 3.6mm - 4.0mm cameras with maybe one or two wide angle 2.8mm cameras at some points.

A PTZ is fun...and a conversation piece. But unless you have somebody manning the PTZ control, it's easier, more effective, and cheaper, to mount more fixed cameras to give you total coverage.

 

Completely agree!

 

 

Domes and turrets and bullets and lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

Domes are great for the vandalproof thing. If a camera is within a person's reach, then a dome is much higher on the choice-list.

But for the most part (until we get to specialized telephoto choices), a dome/turret/bullet will have the same performance/capability.

 

The downside of a dome is that the manufactorur most of the time dont mind a low quality lens, a body is still the best way, but whe it is reachable not an option. and domes outside is a big nono for me, the round glass is making lightdistortions in the image, i nevver use a housing with round dome around my cameras outside.

 

good luck with choosing, best way is to let a profesional make a plan, searching for a profesional is as important as choosing the food in the restaurant

[Low Profile197 0]

[quote="tomcctv.

 

You keep on that op needs 30 fps ..... Are you talking FRAMES fps OR FIELDS fps .......30 fields ps is 15 frames ps ....... Also fields ps and images (ips) are worked out the same

 

 

an IP camera cant do fields, it is recordingline not halve images.

also a NVR can not get full 30fps NTSC or 25 on PAL, i can not believe a system not working on UDP. you are going to miss frames in your recording, your camera can send it, but i dont believe you will get them ALL, of all your camera's on high resolution. 15 is enough for most things, a cashregister i would try to get as high as possible, but that is only 1 camera. there is nothing that will be different in 1/12 1/2th or 1/15th of a second.

[Low Profile197 0]

When you show me a 720p image from a cheap camera that is as clear as that 3mp video AND covers the same area I will paypal to you $5000 US dollars.

You can keep ranting and raving that its all the same, a video is worth a million words. We can see it with our EYES. Words have no effect. The only reason to consider 720p, would be for indoors if the place is low light, because of the improved night vision.

 

if i set the stage/ surroundings, dark woods in the night, i bet you the lower the amount off pixels the better it becomes. (not an issue for TS because of light in a restaurant) but a sensor with less pixels gets more light per pixel and is there for most of the time more light sensitive and has less noise, SO WILL BE clearer. so dont say that for every situation. i think that if you have a cosy dark romantic small restaurant, you will have problems in the evening when there is no light comming from outside thru the windows, a 4MP camera will hav a lot of noise in the image, maybe even in black and white. (noise can be smaller because of smaller pixels but it will be there more than a lower pixel camera)

[tomcctv 187]

Very interesting to learn that, in UK, they regulate 7 FPS for cash area. Do they also regulate 4 MP in stead of 8MP?

I like to hear your comment on " How much they should pay for Play Back real time for Spot Monitoring, for their 8Ch or 16 Ch IP Cameras of each 4MP resolution?" My point is Why Pay More ...

 

 

Did I say cash is 7fps

 

Why should people PAY for playback ??

 

Why would they regulate 4 to 8mp ..... Stupid thing to say

 

And it is not a matter of paying more ...... It's buying a system fit for its purpose ........ But again another post taken into nonsense