Paranoid Neighbor's CCTV

[tja 0]

My neighbor has installed a new type of camera with dual thermal imaging and video imaging. I understand these cameras have longer vision and can see through hedges and trees. He has two of these cameras pointed directly toward my house. One on my front yard and another on my back yard. When I go out to get the newspaper their camera sets-off some sort of silent alarm and I see them coming to the windows to check what's wrong. When I'm on my back patio the same thing happens, even though there are bushes and trees. My experience with CCTV is limited to setting up a Samsung Smartcam to monitor my fish pond. I don't know if the neighbor is just generally paranoid or is worried about me, but it's freaky; I don't feel like I can have friends over on my patio. Is there anything I can do to get some privacy in my own yard? I can't raise the fence, it's already the maximum height my city will allow. I've found playing a radio on the patio when I'm outside helps with the listening but what can be done for the camera's? I appreciate any help. Thanks

[the toss 0]

Some obvious questions come to mind. How do you know what type of cameras he is using and how do you know they have audio capability. Have you even approached him with your concerns. This is the first step on the path to a neighbour dispute when you have an issue but fail to discuss it for a resolution. If the neighbour's issue is with you then the dispute has already started. If it isn't with you and you happen to be just background viewing then by having a friendly chat about your concerns he may just re-aim the cameras and everyone will be happy.

 

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TALK TO HIM

[tja 0]

Thanks for responding.

 

Unfortunately we don't talk to these neighbors due to some things they've done. That's a long story. They've used different listening devices over the years, long before the camera's were installed, I can go into this but think it would be too much info. He has a background in electronics and seems to be interested in surveillance as a hobby. I think the cameras are thermal and video because they look the same as cameras I've found on the internet. The cameras have two same size sensors, one with a rounded metal screen face, the other with a normal camera face. The dual sensor unit is turret mounted under his roof eaves. Originally the camera's were installed by professionals with one looking down his driveway and the other looking down his front door sidewalk. A couple of days after install I woke-up to see him working outside around the cameras at 3 AM (3 AM is not unusual for him). A week or so later I noticed the front door camera had been turned to my front yard and away from his front walk and the driveway camera had been turned away from his driveway toward my patio.

[the toss 0]

So you dont talk to these neighbours because of some things they have done yet it is them that feel they need cameras to check on you. I'm not taking sides I'm just pointing out that their storey might be a whole lot different to yours.

The situation is probably too far gone already when the discussion is only about retribution and not reconcilliation. If people would put as much effort into solving the problem as they do into escalating it everybody would come out a winner.

[tja 0]

Maybe you should go into the ministry and give up CCTV. I guess you are practicing in the CCTV Ministry. Thanks for no help at all.

[oguruma 0]

The OP presents an interesting legal question: to what extent can people use technology in the public domain aimed at monitoring activities in the private domain?

 

The current precedents tell us that anything that is visible from the public domain is fair game (by way of what is "legal", I will talk on tort and the civil aspect below). This means that standing on a sidewalk and looking into an open window generally isn't voyeurism. I am aware of no supreme or district court laws or rulings that say otherwise. There have been court rulings that say that taking pictures up women's skirts is illegal, based upon the notion that the photos were taken to provide some level of sexual gratification. There have also been rulings that said that because the photos were taken in the public domain, that they were perfectly legal. So, what your neighbor is doing is probably perfectly legal, but you should consult a lawyer in your locality. Things may change in the future when you can get a 3D X-Ray camera for $200. Note: Free legal advice is usually worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

Another aspect is that whether or not you could convince your neighbor to stop recording, either through your own persuasion/negotiation, or via cease and desist letters. Often time, a nasty letter from a lawyer saying something to effect of "hey, stop doing what you are doing, or we will see you in court". Of course, this is the most cowardly way to go about it, in my opinion (also worth what you paid for it).

 

It seems like the neighbor is recording or viewing things that are within what would be considered the public domain. If you say "don't record my lawn", is he free to say "hey, don't look in the direction of my house"? Why not man up, and ask your neighbor to stop recording your house? If he says no, then I guess you can move? After all, he pays his property tax like everybody else, doesn't he?

[the toss 0]

You finished off your opening post with " ANY HELP APPRECIATED "

It seems that is not the case - only help that YOU want to hear is what you seem to want. This just reinforces my opinion that it may be a personality problem more than anything else. You are not going to solve anything by entering into an arms race with your neighbour.

[Al Drake 0]

My neighbor has installed a new type of camera with dual thermal imaging and video imaging. I understand these cameras have longer vision and can see through hedges and trees. He has two of these cameras pointed directly toward my house. One on my front yard and another on my back yard. When I go out to get the newspaper their camera sets-off some sort of silent alarm and I see them coming to the windows to check what's wrong. When I'm on my back patio the same thing happens, even though there are bushes and trees. My experience with CCTV is limited to setting up a Samsung Smartcam to monitor my fish pond. I don't know if the neighbor is just generally paranoid or is worried about me, but it's freaky; I don't feel like I can have friends over on my patio. Is there anything I can do to get some privacy in my own yard? I can't raise the fence, it's already the maximum height my city will allow. I've found playing a radio on the patio when I'm outside helps with the listening but what can be done for the camera's? I appreciate any help. Thanks

 

One thing that can be done is install a bright narrow beam high wattage light directed at each camera(s).

 

It's usually illegal to record audio, you'd have to check local bylaws, and hard to prove unless you think of some creative way to set him up.

 

Good luck. I have paranoid neighbors that object to my cameras but I could give a rat's A$$. When their kids give up smoking that weed out back I'd feel better myself.

 

[the toss 0]

Yep , shooting laser pointers back at his house is bound to ease the neighbour tensions. I've seen hundreds of cases like this and it is never about reconciliation but always about winning the war. Hope neither party has any firearms.

[Al Drake 0]

Yep , shooting laser pointers back at his house is bound to ease the neighbour tensions. I've seen hundreds of cases like this and it is never about reconciliation but always about winning the war. Hope neither party has any firearms.

 

"hundreds"?

 

Who mentioned lasers? A bright light is all it takes to washout video. I am taking the poster at his word about his concerns and don't think it's my business if there are or are not paths to reconciliation. I make no assumptions and would never suggest guns as a solution for anything posted on THIS forum. Furthermore I would never compare anything here with a "war" of any kind.

 

See below:

 

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0359.htm

 

While there are several statutes that protect an individual's privacy, most do not appear to apply to this situation. The one statute that may apply is CGS § 53a-189a. Under this law, a person is guilty of voyeurism when he or she, with malice, knowingly photographs, films, videotapes, or otherwise records the image of another person (1) without that person's knowledge and consent, (2) while that person is not in plain view, and (3) under circumstances where that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. (The law also covers sexual voyeurism, which does not appear to apply in this situation.) The surveillance of the constituent's front door and deck does not appear to meet these criteria since these areas are most likely in plain view and the constituent would not have a reasonable expectation of privacy there. On the other hand, the surveillance of the constituent's back yard may meet these criteria if the other sides of the constituent's yard are fenced and the yard is not open to view, although the legislative history of this provision focused on filming people in their homes. Voyeurism is a class D felony, punishable by imprisonment for one to five years, a fine of up to $5,000, or both.

[the toss 0]

Bright narrow beam light = laser by most peoples definition.

I will repeat myself by saying I have seen hundreds of cases like this ( probably close to a hundred per year ) and it never fails to amaze me that the easiest and most logical first step is not taken. You admit you haven't talked to him.TALK TO HIM ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS. If you get no satisfaction then look at alternatives.

I'm sure your neighbour didn't just wake up one morning and decide to see if he could pss off tja.

 

@ Al Drake if you cant see how these things escalate to a war-like nature then you need to think again. Both sides have a storey and both sides believe they have a grievence and both sides believe they are in the right and both sides believe they are being provoked and so on and so on. Have a look at the mass shootings in USA and you will discover that it is usually trivial things behind the motivation

[Al Drake 0]

Bright narrow beam light = laser by most peoples definition.

I will repeat myself by saying I have seen hundreds of cases like this ( probably close to a hundred per year ) and it never fails to amaze me that the easiest and most logical first step is not taken. You admit you haven't talked to him.TALK TO HIM ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS. If you get no satisfaction then look at alternatives.

I'm sure your neighbour didn't just wake up one morning and decide to see if he could pss off tja.

 

@ Al Drake if you cant see how these things escalate to a war-like nature then you need to think again. Both sides have a storey and both sides believe they have a grievence and both sides believe they are in the right and both sides believe they are being provoked and so on and so on. Have a look at the mass shootings in USA and you will discover that it is usually trivial things behind the motivation

 

The OP clearly indicated he was not interested in anything beyond "technical" advice. I, for one, respect that and moved on to what his question was about. With the information given considering there is a "past" that goes back to when cameras were not involved I decided to get right to the point. I think the first step has already occurred.

 

If I had meant "laser" I would have suggested a "laser". I think what I had was more in line with a flashlight type of bulb. Either way I would hope the adults would prevent things from escalating into a "war". I feel that repeated psychoanalysis is unwelcome. That's why I provided a link regarding privacy. Perhaps a bit of over thinking might have lead you to interpret "laser" with all the related negativity lately. I wouldn't think of carrying one if I had no explanation of my needs. There's a major airport the next town over.

 

Maybe in your line of work you are exposed to a totally different set of circumstances. Maybe I've been lucky but camera rage would be the last thing on my mind. I can't say that I have ever heard of any such event and would never conflate such an atmosphere with what I consider an extreme. The last thing on my mind is a "mass shooting" but then again I try to avoid watching to much TeeVee.

[the toss 0]

The OP has NOT indicated he was only interested in technical advice. Indeed he has specifically stated "ANY advice appreciated" For you to think the first step in resolving this issue is to shine bright lights back at the neighbours house is lunacy. Surely you can see how this "might" pan out.

Neighbour 1 - That guy next door seems to get a lot of sus people meeting on his back patio , I think they are dealing drugs. I'll turn a couple of cameras that way just in case.

Neighbour 2 - That guy next door has aimed a couple of cameras at my patio. I could go ask him to move them but I wont. What I'll do is shine some torches back at his house - that will show him.

Neighbour 1 - What is that dickhead doing shineing lights at my place 24 hr a day. Maybe a couple of loads of dog turds over the fence will show him I'm not happy.

Neighbour 2 - That moron next door is throwing all his dogshiit over the fence. A flat tyre or two will show him not to mess with me.

Neighbour 1 - I know it was aasshole next door that slashed my tyres. Lets see what a screwdriver will do to the duco on his car.

 

AND on and on it goes - not an unreasonable possible escalation

 

OR it could go like this-

 

neighbour 1 - something odd about that guy next door & all his dropkick mates. He cant even manage a hello when you see him. Wouldn't be surprised if they are dealing drugs. I think I'll turn a couple of cameras that way just in case.

neighbour 2 - Never particularly liked that guy next door , he seems a bit weird and now he has a couple of cameras pointed at my back patio. I'll swallow my pride and go front him about it

neighbour 1 - (feeling a bit sheepish about being confronted) Ah well they are not really to watch your place. I could probably adjust them a bit so they dont see your patio so much but I still want them to see that area of my yard. I'll see what I can do & get you over to take a look to ease your concerns.

neighbour 2 - great stuff - thanks for that. Having my mates over for a BBQ next Sunday. We get together & talk football , why dont you come over.

 

Now the thing is that it might not go like the second scenario but I think that initially the opportunity should be approached because it is certainly the better outcome. To advise such a provocative response as shining lights back at the neighbour before ANY other response would be a bigger problem than the problem. If it got to legal proceedings the lawers would have a field day.

[Al Drake 0]

The OP has NOT indicated he was only interested in technical advice. Indeed he has specifically stated "ANY advice appreciated" For you to think the first step in resolving this issue is to shine bright lights back at the neighbours house is lunacy. Surely you can see how this "might" pan out.

Neighbour 1 - That guy next door seems to get a lot of sus people meeting on his back patio , I think they are dealing drugs. I'll turn a couple of cameras that way just in case.

Neighbour 2 - That guy next door has aimed a couple of cameras at my patio. I could go ask him to move them but I wont. What I'll do is shine some torches back at his house - that will show him.

Neighbour 1 - What is that dickhead doing shineing lights at my place 24 hr a day. Maybe a couple of loads of dog turds over the fence will show him I'm not happy.

Neighbour 2 - That moron next door is throwing all his dogshiit over the fence. A flat tyre or two will show him not to mess with me.

Neighbour 1 - I know it was aasshole next door that slashed my tyres. Lets see what a screwdriver will do to the duco on his car.

 

AND on and on it goes - not an unreasonable possible escalation

 

OR it could go like this-

 

neighbour 1 - something odd about that guy next door & all his dropkick mates. He cant even manage a hello when you see him. Wouldn't be surprised if they are dealing drugs. I think I'll turn a couple of cameras that way just in case.

neighbour 2 - Never particularly liked that guy next door , he seems a bit weird and now he has a couple of cameras pointed at my back patio. I'll swallow my pride and go front him about it

neighbour 1 - (feeling a bit sheepish about being confronted) Ah well they are not really to watch your place. I could probably adjust them a bit so they dont see your patio so much but I still want them to see that area of my yard. I'll see what I can do & get you over to take a look to ease your concerns.

neighbour 2 - great stuff - thanks for that. Having my mates over for a BBQ next Sunday. We get together & talk football , why dont you come over.

 

Now the thing is that it might not go like the second scenario but I think that initially the opportunity should be approached because it is certainly the better outcome. To advise such a provocative response as shining lights back at the neighbour before ANY other response would be a bigger problem than the problem. If it got to legal proceedings the lawers would have a field day.

 

You have quite an imagination. Nothing like any of that would ever happen in any neighborhood I've ever lived in. The closest comparison would be a few years back when some of the boys in the hood would gather at the edge of the woods to do their puffin'. You could smell it for quite a distance according to a few people we talked to. Either they didn't see my cameras or didn't care as it was dark and they were hard to spot. I added a few flood lights pointed in their direction and they disappeared.

 

If I lived in a place like you describe I would have moved long ago. Occasionally we can hear gun fire but we all know it's some hunters quite away off.

 

The way I understood the OP was he wasn't interested in communicating the details of his past encounters with this neighbor. If I had a neighbor who I didn't feel like confronting again I do exactly what I suggested. Let me repeat just to clear things up. I feel a flood light pointed away from an area where I wanted privacy towards cameras would be all it takes to overexpose any night vision capabilities. If someone wants to aim a camera directly at my back yard I don't see how a light in return is out of line. I might be ready for his next response but would not I expect an introduction of guns? But like I said, maybe you have had experience in those scenarios. I don't think my lights are the "lunacy" here. I see your made up story as the one that's over the top. I don't see how any of your delusions would "pan out" in any place I know of but on some TV show. I have my surveillance system installed thinking maybe I might capture a bear or other wildlife. None of which would be carrying a gun or drugs. I was the first to have cameras visible which has caught on as the guy across the street showed be his new one on his iPhone app.

[the toss 0]

The previous scenario I laid out is not so far fetched as you seem to believe and indeed most neighbour disputes develop along those lines. I made it simple for you to understand. I shall simplify it further.

There are cameras pointed at his house & he's not happy. He doesn't know what the cameras are actually showing and for that matter doesn't even know if the cameras are working. He wont take the normal first step of discussing his concerns but instead turns to the internet for advice about what to do.

If this develops to the extent of legal action taking place ( & the chances of that is at least 50% if he follows your advice) I can picture the judge saying - " so you were unhappy with the cameras pointing at your patio but decided not to discuss the matter with your neighbour. Instead you mounted floodlights pointing at his house on the advice of your internet friend Al Drake. How did you think this was going to solve your problem ?"

 

Everyone in that coutroom will be rolling around on the floor pissing themselves

[tomcctv 187]

Fighting back with pointing spot lights onto another's property is illegal in most states

[Al Drake 0]

The previous scenario I laid out is not so far fetched as you seem to believe and indeed most neighbour disputes develop along those lines. I made it simple for you to understand. I shall simplify it further.

There are cameras pointed at his house & he's not happy. He doesn't know what the cameras are actually showing and for that matter doesn't even know if the cameras are working. He wont take the normal first step of discussing his concerns but instead turns to the internet for advice about what to do.

If this develops to the extent of legal action taking place ( & the chances of that is at least 50% if he follows your advice) I can picture the judge saying - " so you were unhappy with the cameras pointing at your patio but decided not to discuss the matter with your neighbour. Instead you mounted floodlights pointing at his house on the advice of your internet friend Al Drake. How did you think this was going to solve your problem ?"

 

Everyone in that coutroom will be rolling around on the floor pissing themselves

 

 

You seem to enjoy making up stories that fit your narrative. However you know nothing of what has been already discussed between the parties involved and decide to fantasize. Good luck with that. I hope you find yourself amusing although nothing is in any way based on facts. Perhaps that's why you need to make up stuff. I guess I should have known where this was headed when you conflated my lights to "lasers" then went on to drugs and guns. Now you seem to want to bring this made up story into Judge Judy's where the audience gets to interact. What I do find rather sad is I think you actually believe all this is somehow reality. Your drama about a simple solution involving the placement of lighting on someone's back porch has been used and tested for decades as a way to compromise video and pictures. To bad you lack that understanding.

[the toss 0]

I guess the main problem here is that you dont have a concept of consequences and they dont come into your thinking. I encounter this stuff all the time so dont tell me it doesn't happen. As the old saying goes " you can lead a man to knowledge but you cant make him learn"

I am finished on the topic but I hope the OP will see common sense.

[Al Drake 0]

I guess the main problem here is that you dont have a concept of consequences and they dont come into your thinking. I encounter this stuff all the time so dont tell me it doesn't happen. As the old saying goes " you can lead a man to knowledge but you cant make him learn"

I am finished on the topic but I hope the OP will see common sense.

 

 

"I hope the OP will see common sense"

 

That has always been my main assertion.

[Al Drake 0]

Fighting back with pointing spot lights onto another's property is illegal in most states

 

 

You may be right. I have been reading more about neighbors fighting over lights than cameras. Some of the posts are actually interesting and funny.

 

https://chicago.everyblock.com/talk/sep10-new-flood-lights-next-door-5321297/

 

 

I'm glad we have a well balanced neighborhood where everyone gets along fine. To fine actually.

[tja 0]

Thank you Al Drake, Oguruma, and Tomcctv, for giving me good advice. I knew a flood light might help with the visual camera but I read it doesn't help with the dual thermal/visual camera they have put in. This neighbor has had camera's for years but these new thermal/visual cameras are kind of unusual. From what I've seen they cost thousands of dollars each and they are able to see for blocks, right through trees and bushes. That's why I called the neighbor paranoid, I don't know what he scared of. Since everyone seems to want to know why I don't talk to the neighbor: About 5 years ago I filled an insurance claim for my brick garden wall and a lath structure that are undercut due to soil grading my neighbor did to make a level RV parking pad on his side opposite the wall. The neighbor shirked responsibility for the damage that resulted on my side. My insurance company filled against his insurance company, neither company settled or paid anything. I've heard thermal camera's can't see through glass. I can't afford glass, and the city doesn't allow a higher fence, but I'm thinking of still trying to install something above the fence, do any of you think corrugated fiberglass panels would work?

[Al Drake 0]

Thank you Al Drake, Oguruma, and Tomcctv, for giving me good advice. I knew a flood light might help with the visual camera but I read it doesn't help with the dual thermal/visual camera they have put in. This neighbor has had camera's for years but these new thermal/visual cameras are kind of unusual. From what I've seen they cost thousands of dollars each and they are able to see for blocks, right through trees and bushes. That's why I called the neighbor paranoid, I don't know what he scared of. Since everyone seems to want to know why I don't talk to the neighbor: About 5 years ago I filled an insurance claim for my brick garden wall and a lath structure that are undercut due to soil grading my neighbor did to make a level RV parking pad on his side opposite the wall. The neighbor shirked responsibility for the damage that resulted on my side. My insurance company filled against his insurance company, neither company settled or paid anything. I've heard thermal camera's can't see through glass. I can't afford glass, and the city doesn't allow a higher fence, but I'm thinking of still trying to install something above the fence, do any of you think corrugated fiberglass panels would work?

 

How do you know the cameras are thermal? Can you tell by looking at them? I just googled them and find there are some cheap ones available. I also searched for how to block them.

 

Here's an interesting article.

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/security/how-to-block-ir-infrared-thermal-imaging/

 

"A simple and effective method to block IR is an ordinary ‘space blanket’ or thermal blanket of Mylar foil. The foil will block the IR heat signature behind it."

 

I actually have several of these blankets I use to block sun rays from entering to aid in cooling.

 

Here's some you can use for the inside of your fence.

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflectix-16-in-x-25-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-with-Staple-Tab-ST16025/100012574

 

I don't know how you'd be able to attach anything above your fence. You might have some ideas of your own. I know there is some cheaper thinner metal material.

 

My wife used to work at this place where they have some as thin as paper.

 

http://www.packworld.com/metallized-products-inc-holographic-paper

 

Good luck.

 

Al.

[tja 0]

Al,

 

I took this picture of the camera nearest my house for your info

 

Last night I tried to find a camera like this on the internet, it looks the same. This LTS Platinum Fixed Lens Turret Camera looks the same.

 

Maybe I'm the paranoid neighbor, the second sensor may just be for night vision IR. If so I'm sorry to waste your time.

 

I started a hedge a couple of years ago to help screen the old cameras, if this camera is just a normal camera, that hedge should eventually work. It's just slow to grow. If my wife and I want to lay out naked on the patio (we're retired so that's not likely) we will hang up a space blanket and think of you with kind regard.

 

I'd like to thank you again for your great advice and help.

[Securame 0]

That is a normal camera with an array led for night vision.

 

Not a thermal camera... Yes, I also wonder who the paranoid is in the neighbourhood (just kidding, no offense meant!)

[zr1 0]

Yup...that's not a thermal camera. It's a nice regular cam with infrared, so it can see at night, but yeah, not through hedges.

But not thermal.

 

That cam runs about $100-200 depending on the internals of getting a better resolution (high-def matching or a bit better than Blu-Ray).

 

Thermal cams run a good $10,000 for a very mediocre resolution (use them for some work contracts...and they're pretty cool).