Designing first IP PoE system.. and im lost.

[Mwierenga 0]

I have been tasked with the research, acquisition, and installation of a camera system for my shopping center. I started by getting quotes from a few local installers. These quotes came in roughly 1000% higher than the expected budgeted amount. Thus, I want to try and do things myself. The biggest problem that I have run into thus far is that my place of work is rather large, and the 300ft limitation of PoE equipment is hampering me. My building is a narrow rectangular shape roughly 1000 ft at its longest. Our internet router is on one of the far ends of this 1000ft span. The quotes that I have received thus far have all included a pull of fiber line from one side of the building to the other and have all cameras attached to a NVR by the router in our offices. Im not sure if this fiber run is necessary or just some local companies trying to get as much money as possible out of this job.

 

Here are my goals:

 

-At most a 16 camera system viewing both inside and outside

-Do not need 100% coverage

-Main goal is to verify building is empty after hours, not to count the hairs on their head and see their facial pores.

-Email or text alerts would be nice to receive if motion is detected inside during set times

-Remote viewing on PC or smartphone would be a nice option.

-I dont want to have to install a power outlet at every camera.

 

Here is what I have done thus far:

-After seeing some marketing on an analog kit at a big box store advertising a max distance of 1600ft for each camera I purchased the kit to test it out (didn't do what we wanted it to do)

-Received staggeringly high quotes from a few local installers.

-Measured distances and decided camera placement

 

So... I have HEARD that I can run cat6 300ft from the router towards the center of the building, attach the NVR in a utility closet then run another 300ft cat6 to a gigabit PoE switch, and finally I can use both the NVR and the switch as a hub for cameras to go 300 ft in all directions. This would leave me with two overlapping circles of possible camera placement coverage spanning like 450ft from one end to the other. Please correct me if im wrong before I purchase a different setup under this assumption. This doesn't get me the full 1000 ft of the building which would be ideal, but its a start. Can i then continue another 300ft and install ANOTHER switch by daisy chaining them? Like I said earlier, is a fiber run with media converters necessary from the NVR to a switch like I have seen in all my quotes? Is there any way to stretch the length of the cat6 in-between the NVR and the switch so I could reach further in the far direction and have less overlap between my two circles if placement coverage? My budget cap is 15k, but honestly I think thats way too high and the lower the better so long as my goals are attained.

 

I greatly welcome any recommendations for systems, solutions for questions, and opinions. My main questions are can I indeed run cat6 300ft between a nvr and a PoE switch? Can I then daisy chain to another switch 300 feet further? Is PoE right for me?

[jrmymllr 0]

I have been tasked with the research, acquisition, and installation of a camera system for my shopping center. I started by getting quotes from a few local installers. These quotes came in roughly 1000% higher than the expected budgeted amount. Thus, I want to try and do things myself. The biggest problem that I have run into thus far is that my place of work is rather large, and the 300ft limitation of PoE equipment is hampering me. My building is a narrow rectangular shape roughly 1000 ft at its longest. Our internet router is on one of the far ends of this 1000ft span. The quotes that I have received thus far have all included a pull of fiber line from one side of the building to the other and have all cameras attached to a NVR by the router in our offices. Im not sure if this fiber run is necessary or just some local companies trying to get as much money as possible out of this job.

 

Here are my goals:

 

-At most a 16 camera system viewing both inside and outside

-Do not need 100% coverage

-Main goal is to verify building is empty after hours, not to count the hairs on their head and see their facial pores.

-Email or text alerts would be nice to receive if motion is detected inside during set times

-Remote viewing on PC or smartphone would be a nice option.

-I dont want to have to install a power outlet at every camera.

 

Here is what I have done thus far:

-After seeing some marketing on an analog kit at a big box store advertising a max distance of 1600ft for each camera I purchased the kit to test it out (didn't do what we wanted it to do)

-Received staggeringly high quotes from a few local installers.

-Measured distances and decided camera placement

 

So... I have HEARD that I can run cat6 300ft from the router towards the center of the building, attach the NVR in a utility closet then run another 300ft cat6 to a gigabit PoE switch, and finally I can use both the NVR and the switch as a hub for cameras to go 300 ft in all directions. This would leave me with two overlapping circles of possible camera placement coverage spanning like 450ft from one end to the other. Please correct me if im wrong before I purchase a different setup under this assumption. This doesn't get me the full 1000 ft of the building which would be ideal, but its a start. Can i then continue another 300ft and install ANOTHER switch by daisy chaining them? Like I said earlier, is a fiber run with media converters necessary from the NVR to a switch like I have seen in all my quotes? Is there any way to stretch the length of the cat6 in-between the NVR and the switch so I could reach further in the far direction and have less overlap between my two circles if placement coverage? My budget cap is 15k, but honestly I think thats way too high and the lower the better so long as my goals are attained.

 

I greatly welcome any recommendations for systems, solutions for questions, and opinions. My main questions are can I indeed run cat6 300ft between a nvr and a PoE switch? Can I then daisy chain to another switch 300 feet further? Is PoE right for me?

 

 

Just some general Ethernet rules here. You are correct, Cat5/6 can go 100m/328 feet per run. You might be able to get 150m, but don't count on it. It's not a signal quality issue but rather a timing issue. Fiber to copper Ethernet converters would surely take care of it, and they're under $50/each (TP-LINK MC200CM), but if it works out, simply having a network switch "resets" that distance limitation because it retransmits the packets. So, you could have an Ethernet run from the NVR to a switch, fan out to cameras there, then have another run from that switch to another switch 100m further down, fan out from there, etc. There's no reason you can't daisy-chain several switches as you mentioned.

 

About the 150m claim: I was told by a rep from Micrel, who makes Ethernet PHY chips, that theirs will do 150m. So, given a specific switch, it might be worth testing out. You could do some performance tests by starting out with say 200m cable, and shorten it 10m at a time and each time doing performance tests on it. Once you find where it begins working, chop another 20-30m off that length for a safety margin. Again, not ideal, but you might get by with it.

 

PoE is indeed what you want if you don't want a power supply at each camera, no question.

 

I'm not an installer or anything, just a hobbyist, but $15K seems like plenty to do this. I would estimate $100/camera, which leaves you a whole lot to buy the LAN equipment, build a standard computer as an NVR to run Zoneminder/Blue Iris/Xeoma or whatever you want to run.

[TheWigglerSpot 0]

You definitely want POE and you can use a SWITCH to add as many POE devices as your switch can handle. All POE switches need a power outlet (not sure if you are asking). From my POE switches to the furthest camera is a lot farther than 300 feet and everything works great with CAT6.

 

You want to segregate the Cameras from the rest of the network (WAPS, whatever) obviously and don't expect much from the software that comes with these NVR's. (NVR is a DVR but on the network) You will hear stories of better VMS (this is the software that drives the NVR) but no one will tell you how much because unless they do the entire install, etc and sell you a 3k NVR...

 

It's tricky if you hire an installer. My house I originally had pre-wired and the guy left the country after it was done. The installers all pissed me off so bad with their nonsense I just decided to do ti all myself - cameras, whole home audio, automation, you name it.

 

Luckily I had a week or 2 to spend learning what to do.

 

Get your checkbook out and prepare to be pissed off if you use an installer. Maybe cheaper in the long run, bit it sucks in the beginning. You are gonna pay about 3 to 4x as much for them to do it and $80 an hour per person to come out and fix anything that breaks.

 

If you are a DIYer there probably isn't much that is gonna break that you aren't gonna know how to fix.

 

GL and I hope I helped address some of what you are concerned about.

 

Depending on the cameras, this is doable for 15k. The devil is in the details with any proposal you get.