Soundy

So much for the much-ballyhooed claims of the benefits of "uncompressed video". "Visually lossless" is all fine and dandy, but one of the main selling points the Alliance has been pushing was how much better "uncompressed" video is for live monitoring, and how NOT encoding on the camera allows better real-time viewing with no lag time. I guess they're finding that it's not as simple as all that...

The most common ones we use are the EH3512 models from Pelco (or the shorter EH3508 for smaller IP cams). Couldn't tell you offhand what the price is. What you really need there, then, is a tighter view on the entrances/exits. Your limiting factor will really be the resolution, and that will hit a wall with the DVR itself (D1 at 720x480 at best). The smaller the choke point, the tighter the shot you can get, and the clearer the plates will be. That depends on the DVR, but most will allow it. That won't help your license plate capture though - as a photographer, you know the most critical thing for clear shots of a moving object is a fast shutter speed. Either of the CNB models will allow you to lock the shutter speed; obviously if you can get a faster lens (f/1.2 or better) you'll get better exposure at higher shutter speeds as well.

Like I say, I've not used the BBM variant myself, but we use the VCM-24vfs almost exclusively. They DO have zoom - 2.8-10.5mm varifocal by default (although they should accept any M12-mount lens), and they are a 1/3" sensor. The BBM will give the same view with the same focal lengths. Don't go just by the images posted in this thread - those are grabbed before the DVR has been reconfigured for the new camera, but had been tweaked to get the best results out of the old cheap B&W camera. I posted those just to show the difference in the SBLC settings. Check some of the other threads (including one dedicated the Mona Lisa line) for more pictures from these cameras.

Well like I say, that depends on the housing (you still haven't said exactly what model they are). Even in a sealed housing though, the point of the fan is to circulate the air inside across the glass to keep it clear of condensation. You'd have to be in a REALLY cold or REALLY humid environment for it to really be an issue, though. I'll give it a look! I don't really do "pro" (more semi-pro/serious-amateur), but I have galleries scattered all over the web. If yer on Crackbook, check http://www.facebook.com/moltenimagephoto... or http://picasaweb.google.com/soundy106

And one more because of the 3-attachment limitation...

As promised... these are in B&W because the DVR had previously had a B&W camera on that channel, and I hadn't dialed the color back in yet.

All depends on how the camera does its metering, no? AFAIK most CCTV cameras simply average the entire scene, in which case a few bright points shouldn't affect overall exposure. Either way, the "SBLC" function (Super Backlight Compensation) should handle the difference nicely - when I get the chance, I'll post some sample clips of it from a VCM-24vf I recently installed. I come from a photography background as well (I currently rock a 40D; I've also had a 300D, a Rebel G, a Minolta X700, and an Argus C3), and I can tell you, the knowledge DOES HELP, but some things work a little differently when it comes to CCTV cameras, particularly the higher-quality ones with their own processing. Holy crap, where in Bellingham are you seeing 3 feet of snow?? I can see that maybe being total accumulation over the season, or maybe in the hilly area just south of Bellingham, along Lake Samish... but the climate there shouldn't really be that different than here in Vancouver. I think as long as you're actually using SEALED enclosures (not some cheapies with all kinds of vents or bad weather strip) you should be fine without heaters. Or like I say, WORST CASE you should need heaters, but not blowers. Nope - 22ga, 4 conductor. If you double-up, you get pretty close to the equivalent of 18ga.

Ha! You and me both... we certainly do our part keeping them all honest over on... er, that other forum I'm probably a little snippier with them, but Carl's certainly more curmudgeonly

Four-conductor 22ga. Works fine when doubled up (esp. with 24VAC). And realistically, it generally works fine when not doubled up. I've used this example before: gas station that wanted another camera added to the canopy. Conduits are all sealed before the station goes online, so adding another cable run is impossible. Solution: split the station wire going to the camera nearest the new location, use one pair for video for the new camera, use the other pair to power BOTH cameras. Run distance: about 175'. Been running fine for several years now.

Just curious, where is this location (you might have told us before, I don't remember)? How cold does it REALLY get? Keep in mind that the cameras DO put off some heat of their own, and as long as the enclosures are well-sealed (which ones are you using, BTW?) they'll retain some heat anyway... unless you have extreme cold, you probably don't need the blowers, and may not even really need the heaters. We sometimes use heated housings here in Vancouver, but as often as not don't even hook up the heaters, as it rarely gets below -10. Actually, it's probably more efficient and overall effective to just use cameras that handle the dynamic range better, considering the backlight issues in daylight tend to be short-lived. Remember the old adage about a chain and its weakest link... just because a DVR may have limitations is no reason to skimp on the cameras... or vice-versa. That said, the MAXIMUM resolution you'll get out of analog NTSC video is 720x480, regardless of the camera or the DVR. Concern yourself more with the overall usability, flexibility, and/or upgradeability of the DVR, since anything in the "good-to-excellent" range will give you the same resolution capabilities. My own recommendation, surprisingly, is a Vigil system - you get hybrid capability (in case you want to add IP camears later), you get built-in analytics, you get a kick-ass network client, and you get great manufacturer support.

What would really help sell me is if existing DVR systems were updated to use this within their own software: plug this card into a GV or Vigil or Video Insight or Exacq or NUUO box, and the cameras just show up alongside the other analog and/or IP cameras.

Skype FTW

They look mediocre at best, from the specs I've found. They aren't true day/night; they have the IR LEDs to compensate for poor low-light performance. Most listings I've found put them in about the $200 range, though, so if you can get them for $100, you're probably not TOO bad off. $1500 should be your minimum budget for *cameras* in this case - you're in a dark environment, something that's not up to snuff won't do anyone any good.

We use the VCM-24vf *extensively*. Except when the customer specs something else, it's our analog camera of choice. Do a quick browse of the board, you'll see the CNB Mona Lisa line is pretty popular with most of the members here as well

You're missing a key factor from your specs: budget. If we know how much your customer expects (hopes) to pay, it gives us a better starting point for recommending something. Now offhand, I can suggest (and many here will agree) CNB's VCM-24vf or VBM-24vf cameras for excellent low-cost, low-light, day/night cameras. The others are right, PTZs aren't a good choice here - aside from the cost, they're only really useful when you're monitoring them live; for recording, they can only record what they're pointed at. And I would just forget about audio - first, the laws in most places are stricter about recording audio, and second, in a bar setting, you're not likely to get much useful from it anyway, as you'll be picking up all that background noise - music, chatter (read: yelling), etc. To give yourself a sample, just sit in the middle of the room on a busy night and try to pick out any one conversation more than two feet away... that's what the mics will pick up, and without any inherent ability to concentrate attention on specific conversation(s).

I'd suggest a .30-06, in that case... shot spreads too quickly to be effective at that range, and slugs don't get much better distance either (although if you DO manage to hit your target, rather than the floor in front of his feet, they'll leave a hulluva mess).

Ah, but there's the catch: the PRICE. So far they state over and over that the price will be "comparable" to analog cameras... but does that mean $15 Chinese junk, or $600+ CW484s? That's a pretty broad statement with no real specifics. Keep in mind too, that they're pushing this as a viable alternative to IP megapixel... yet even 1080p (1920x1080) is barely 2MP. As with everything else about them, they state that it WILL exceed that... at some unknown point in the future. You'd need either a new DVR, or a new capture/interface card, at least. Still no word on whether there are hybrid systems on the slate, which is a major issue: if they're marketing this as an upgrade path for existing analog installations, then they need to have hybrid systems; otherwise you're looking at either replacing ALL your analog cameras, or needing to run two separate systems for the analog and HD. Ah yes, but that assumes they're being entirely truthful on the costs. The cameras may be in a similar price range, but there's also the cost of replacing/upgrading/supplementing your current DVR. Personally, I think their price claims will prove to be overly ambitious: IP has been dropping rapidly the past couple years because of competition in the marketplace and the economies of scale (when you're selling thousands of cameras, you don't need to make as much on each one compared to when you're just selling hundreds). HDcctv has neither benefit yet; manufacturers will probably have to sell cameras at a loss initially just to move them at the claimed price point, because they'll still have development costs to deal with. But... but... they have the pretty pictures they posted!

Even full-framerate uncompressed video has to follow the laws of physics, and the simple fact is, the higher the resolution, the smaller the pixes, the less light-gathering capability, which has to be compensated for somewhere else... either by better image processing, or slower shutter speeds.

Doesn't look like either position will require over a 9mm lens, from my calculations. Are you set on box cams in housings, or are domes acceptable? Take a look at the CNB VCM-24VF domes - excellent in low light, good in mild backlighting, 2.8-10.5mm varifocal lens, true day/night, 600TVL, vandal-resistant domes. If the customer is set on box cams in housings, there's also the BBM-24F, which is pretty much the same specs in a box enclosure. You realize, BTW, that these cameras will be aimed on almost a 45-degree angle to the ground and as such may not be ideal for capturing facial features...?

Welcome aboard!

How do you have things wired? Sounds like a ground-loop or interference issue. Does the "jumping" happen all the time, or just when you're operating the PTZ?

This is what I and others have been asking here, and elsewhere, for some time now. It's the one question they always manage to skirt around - the best anyone can come up with is "the same price range as analog CCTV".

Scott who? Don't you mean Craig Scott, about whom I referred. oops, right you are, my bad. i was close!

Just looking at a local retailer's website... regular retail (non-sale) prices: RG6, 1000', $105. Cat5e, 1000', $96. RG59+18/2 Siamese, 500', $158. Oddly, they don't list straight RG59 in bulk, but they do have it at 40c/ft, whereas RG6 and Cat5e are 35c/ft. So you tell me which is cheaper... AND more versatile!

And Scott, don't forget Scott!