Soundy

Hey, thanks for checking... actually, I was mistaken, the cameras ARE 1/3" (IQEye IQ-511)... I found Pentax's PDF lens chart, it was very handy.... I just went from being at a loss to think of names of CCTV lens manufacturers (came up with Tamron as well), to being completely overwhelmed with them once I found a good combination of Google search terms Biggest problem is, 99% of the hits are for resellers who don't have complete product or spec listings.

Don't get a whole lotta that at Home Depot here in .ca either. *shrug* I generally prefer my main suppliers too, but each of them has one outlet in the 2800 sq. km (1100 sq. mi.) metropolitan region that we cover... whereas I'm never more than 20 minutes from a handy Home Depot.

^That's right - there's no reason the cable can't live its entire lifespan in and among the insulation... but it can be a PITA to work with if you have to get back at it. Ease of future access is really the only reason for stringing it up nicely.

Just for accuracy, the ~3GB RAM limit is a function of running a 32-bit operating system, not NTFS. That's right the limit with NTFS was the 2TB partition size I believe. I think you're thinking of the 2GB limit for a single file. I have a 6.5TB NTFS partition on an 8x1TB RAID-5 array. Well, there's always the chance that the software won't work right on a 64-bit OS as well... or that there won't be drivers for the capture card. Better not to take the risk for this sort of application. No, I would imagine not. And there's always the outside chance that a RAID failure will kack the entire system, rather than just some video data. With the Vigils, there's typically a small (80GB these days) base drive with about a 10GB system partition (OS and software), and the rest allocated to an "exports" partition as well as "alternate" record space in case your data drive(s) become unavailable. Once built and running, the system partition is then imaged (DriveImage) to the included data drive (it can also be burned to DVD for safety). If your system drive fails then, you just pop a new one in and restore the image. Have you tried adding exceptions to AVG, for the video data drives, video file types, or anything else related to the NVR software? I have a home PVR built around SnapStream's BeyondTV software, and one of the first things they recommend to improve performance is to set exceptions in your antivirus for the video folders and video file types (*.AVI, *.MPG, *.WMV, etc.). I found it didn't have much effect for SDTV, but making those tweaks to Avast! Antivirus made a HUGE difference when recording HDTV. I haven't thought about exceptions. That's a great idea to try and I'll try to remote in this week when the customer is in the office in order to try this out. Funny, I've used SnapStream in the past. I really liked that piece of software! Maybe I'll get a NUUO rep to respond to this issue as well. They hopefully have some ideas for me also. Thanks Just imagine if AVG is running shield operations on all the writes to the video drive... *shudder*

Could you be a little more specific as to your needs? Size? Features? Price range? I've dealt with one PTZ that mounts on top of something rather than needing to hang from it, and that's a Pelco Esprit. Probably a little big for a "desktop" though...

Just for accuracy, the ~3GB RAM limit is a function of running a 32-bit operating system, not NTFS. I'm not familiar with the NUUO, but I have seen similar symptoms with Vigil DVRs. In their case, you have to allocate an amount of RAM to the MSSQL database that it stores all its search tables in... if the size of that database grows beyond the allocated memory, it has to swap it to disk, and that REALLY bogs down searches. The solution there is to allocate more RAM to the database (and add more to the system, if necessary). Of course, if you've JUST put this machine together, something like that SPECIFICALLY shouldn't be the case... but it's an avenue to look at: memory and resource allocation to certain processes? Have you tried adding exceptions to AVG, for the video data drives, video file types, or anything else related to the NVR software? I have a home PVR built around SnapStream's BeyondTV software, and one of the first things they recommend to improve performance is to set exceptions in your antivirus for the video folders and video file types (*.AVI, *.MPG, *.WMV, etc.). I found it didn't have much effect for SDTV, but making those tweaks to Avast! Antivirus made a HUGE difference when recording HDTV.

^That just proves the point: you don't understand the IT side of things, thus you fear it. If you needed to be an NTSC video engineer to use analog cameras, you'd fear them as well. Instead of fearing what you don't know - LEARN IT! Learn to take advantage of the DIFFERENT benefits it can provide, such as those as woodyads outlined above. One of our more recent large client acquisitions, we got because they wanted someone to put megapixel cameras in their new flagship store. Their current service provider at the time didn't deal with IP and didn't want to learn about it... so they lost that job, and eventually the whole account to us. One day you'll run into that casino client who WANTS a hybrid analog/IP system, and won't be talked out of it by your FUD... and you'll lose them to someone who'll give them what they want. Wouldn't it be better to TEACH YOURSELF what you need to know, to provide other customers what they want?

Some really great points there in your post! I think the quote above encapsulates a big reason why a lot of old-school CCTV guys are so against IP (read: are afraid of it): because they simply don't understand it, and we tend to fear what we don't understand. Just to explain a little more on this. With the advent of voice on IP I thought the skill set of the IT average person in larger organisations would expand into the Comms area. However IT in many large companies has gone backwards. While the knowledge of the architect has moved forward in his skill set, after commissioning the network support gets handed over to individuals who are blinded from why it works and the other devices it talks to. The architect moves on to the next job and the knowledge of how the system runs is lost. So when you say people in CCTV are "afraid of it" I don't blame them, good information about how to setup these network protocols not passed on though the larger companies and you just can't rely on your client's network engineers of smaller companies to know exactly the pitfalls of designing and running this stuff. My team doesn't fall under IT so we are not constrained to the IT kind of budget and outsourcing job division issues that normal IT departments are. All too true. IP cam manufacturers have made things relatively simple for non-IT folks to be able to install and configure the cameras, but I imagine it's still pretty scary... imagine if you had to be a video engineer to use analog cameras. I agree, it's nice to be in a situation where you can control the IT structure top-to-bottom, beginning-to-end. My previous IT job was like that - not that I was the one in control, but I was involved with all stages of putting it together. It's nice when you don't have to rely on guesswork at what your predecessor did.

Some really great points there in your post! I think the quote above encapsulates a big reason why a lot of old-school CCTV guys are so against IP (read: are afraid of it): because they simply don't understand it, and we tend to fear what we don't understand. Just to touch on a couple points... I'm a big fan of IP CCTV (yes, I understand the point that it's not technically "closed circuit" - I come from an IT background myself - but we'll stick with the conventional acronym for simplicity's sake), but I would argue that it's only "superior" in some circumstances. Analog still has its benefits in a lot of situations as well. Also, international access like you've got isn't limited to all-IP systems - a good hybrid DVR will give you the same sort of access to your analog AND IP cameras from anywhere in the world. We have one client who owns three pubs with liquor stores; we have a mix of existing and new analog cameras on all three sites, and added megapixel IP cameras on two of them. All are using analog/IP hybrid Vigil DVRs; he logs in using the Vigil Client on his laptop from all over the world to check on his properties (in fact, I had to chastise him once when he was doing it from Hawaii - "Dude, turn the laptop off and go out on the beach!") I suppose technically this is all thanks to IP technology, even with only analog cameras on-site, but the point is, analog CCTV itself is far from obsolete. I have to agree there. Fact is, for a very large percentage of our (the surveillance industry in general) customer base, cost is still a major factor, and a big part of reducing cost of maintaining existing systems. Case in point: we service one of Canada's largest oil companies, and we actually still have a few gas stations that are running on multiplexors and time-lapse VHS VCRs. As muxes and VCRs died, they'd spec replacement units rather than upgrade to DVRs... because even at $600+ for a new time-lapse VCR (plus the cost of replacing 31 tapes during annual maintenance), it was still cheaper than the $5000 or so for their corporate-spec DVRs (also Vigils). It's only the year or so that we've been literally forced to upgrade them (or rather, they've been forced to let us upgrade them)... because nobody's making time-lapse VCRs anymore. In fact, nobody has for a couple of years - the only thing that kept us going with those was the stock left in the supply channel... but now that's dried up, customers with failing VCRs have no choice but to replace them with DVRs (the things just aren't worth repairing, even if you CAN find parts). So no, you won't see analog CCTV or DVRs go away for a long, long time... as long as it's still cost-effective to produce, sell, and maintain, people will keep using it, and there will still be a market for it.

The 12V connector shown on the camera in the picture above is a BNC connector like the RG6 BNC except smaller? Nope, it's one of these:

Is that input for the standard or typical BNC connected camera? Yup!

Never had a problem with station wire and rain. Most 12VDC cameras I've used (especially the cheaper consumer-grade ones) come with their own "wall-wart" adapter - I'll just snip the wire on that, splice the adapter at one end and the connector at the camera end. If it's outdoor, I'll just put a little blob of dielectric grease (often sold for use on battery terminals to prevent corrosion) into the crimp connectors, a bit on the inside of the BNC, and then wrap everything tightly in electrical tape.

If you cut that cable open (not recommended), you'll find probably at least five wires in there - a pair for power, a pair for audio, and a spiral-shield-wrapped "mini-coax" for video. The spiral shield may also double as ground for audio and/or power, or the audio may be a coaxial pair as well - there are as many variations on the theme as there are brands, but the basic concept is the same: multiple conductors inside the one sheath. Correct (technically, an additional "power" wire for every camera, as 24VAC is common as well for professional gear). At the risk of confusing the issue, there ARE systems than run power over the coax, but they're relatively rare. Correct. Anything with sufficient wire gauge. Usually 18/2 or better (like speaker wire). We typically use what's called "station wire", which is four conductors - usually red, black, green, and white or yellow, like the old phone wire. We'll usually double-up pairs for better capacity (red+yellow twisted together for +, green and black for ground). That leaves you the ability to split off a pair in future for other purposes (audio, PTZ control, etc.). Since we do a lot of intercom work that requires station wire, it also means we don't have to carry two different types of wire around. It can, although I've found strapping them together along the length usually creates a bigger headache than not. The other option is what's known as "siamese cable", that has the separate coax and 18/2 wire connected together over their entire length by a thin "web". A lot of people here are big on it... I've found it handy in some instances and a PITA in others. No. You need either separate "wall wart" style transformers, or a central 12V power supply, like this: http://www.altronix.com/index.php?pid=2&model_num=ALTV1224DC The other option for cabling is to use multi-conductor twisted-pair wire, like Cat-3 or Cat-5, along with video baluns, devices that "balance" the video signal for transmission over non-shielded wiring. The extra pairs allow you to run video, power, audio, and/or control signals over a single cable. It also tends to be a more expensive proposition up-front, when you add in the cost of the baluns, but it can be more effective in some installations. Probably not a feasible option in this case, I'm throwing it in just in the sake of completeness. (Actually, I've run video AND power over a single piece of station wire as well - it's not the ideal solution, but it's nice to have the capability for those really wacky situations).

How possible is it to relocate these machines? I often find an electrical or phone room, or even elevator mechanical room, is a good location - they tend to stay cool, relatively dust-free, and are inherently secure, thus reducing the need for a lock box. In locations like these, even if a lock box is still needed, you've reduced the need for cooling and dust-blocking.

It's possibly but not likely. The customers location is in a congested area with historical buildings. There is a row of 3-4 large townhouse style buildings where is main store is. The office building is not connected but I could probably lay a 15-20ft conduit over the building tops. I'll run it by him to see. Thanks for the idea Another possibility is, if both sites have broadband internet, you could use IP cameras or IP video servers at the remote building... GSS has been absolutely wonderful helping spec things out for all of my projects. I just don't know if they have the best prices as I've only dealt with them. Just for reference my cost is $54 for the day/night cameras and a standalone Linux based DVR is around $999. Sound right? Really hard to say. Ignoring for a moment the fact that I'm just the in-house geek and don't actually do the purchasing for our outfit, and the fact that I'm in Canada so prices will necessarily be different (probably higher here), there's such a wide range of equipment out there, it's impossible to compare "value" based on so little information. I've seen day/night bullet cams ranging from $20 to $300, and Linux-based DVRs probably anywhere in the $200-$3000 range. Stated specs are less meaningful than actual brand names, as build quality and reliability with these things are usually a bigger difference than pure specs. Not all domes require drop-ceiling. I've used numerous models that can be mounted to a wall - even a solid concrete or brick wall. Some include a back-box for the purpose, others don't require it... really depends on the design.

The system's manual should list the default username and password... as long as they haven't been changed, that's all you'll need. Have you tried the "JPEG" (M-JPEG?) export option? Maybe check with your legal counsel to see if overlapping the clips would be acceptable.

Can't really say why there'd be 8 more BNC inputs on the DVR... possibly input and daisy-chained output for four more cameras, or inputs for four cameras plus daisy-chained outs for the four included ones. Or even 8 more inputs. The DVR should have a matching number of channel-select buttons for however many inputs there area. Typically, "pro" cameras with BNC out *DO NOT* carry power over the BNC, but use a separate pair of wires to provide 12VDC or 24VAC power. Most also DO NOT have audio support. Designs like "bullet" and dome cameras will usually have a short wire coming out (maybe 6-12") with BNC and power connectors, but that's pretty much the extent that these cameras are "hardwired". The back-end of a typical "box" camera looks something like this: 24VAC-powered ones will usually have some sort of spring- or screw-terminals for power, rather than a barrel connector.

Hmm, would it be acceptable if you overlapped a bit? Like, have one clip end at 10:00 (ten-minute point) of the interview, then start the next one from the 9:30 point, to prove continuity? Just looking at the overview specs for this, it says it records in M-JPEG (Motion JPEG) format... on those export menu options, does it say JPEG or M-JPEG? If the latter, try using that for export - you'll probably find it goes faster as well, since the system doesn't need to re-encode it to AVI. Even if it just says JPEG, you could try it anyway, to the SD card, to see if it's actually using M-JPEG video. The spec sheet states that it IS networkable and does have Windows- and web-based clients... you should be able to just point a web browser on a networked computer at it to at least view the video. Whether that will also let you export, I don't know... The remote client should be available from American Dynamics: http://www.americandynamics.net/support/downloads.aspx I haven't been able to find a manual for the unit, but I did find some release notes on a firmware update, that includes this:

Hmm, do you have the exact model number of this DVR (so I can look up specs and a manual, unless someone else here comes along who is actually familiar with it)? It might be indicating that a CD will hold up to 30 minutes' worth of video, but it needs to be in separate 10-minute exports. Will it let you save multiple times to the same disc? Another option might be, if the DVR is networkable and has a computer client application, you could access it from a PC, pull the video off to there, and then burn it to a disc.

Does this DVR give you the option to export in different formats? What format is it using by default? What size files is it creating on the SD or CD? Are they getting filled, or is the machine just stopping at that amount of time?

Welcome! I got into CCTV coming out of the IT field as well, so I'm familiar with the transition That could be tricky. Is there any other way to do this over a cable run? 100' isn't too far, can the cable be strung across buildings, or buried in conduit? Is there maybe existing conduit between buildings, for phone/network? If there's existing network or phone connections, it's possible there are some spare pairs of wire that could be used with baluns to get the video signal across. Well, I can't speak for GSS, but "the cheapest" is rarely "the best". Having run your own IT company, you know the importance of having good support and service behind you. Sometimes paying a little more is worth it for a supplier who stands behind their sales. Just something to think about Of course, if you can get cheaper *and* better service, that's a plus. Well, I'm a fan of PC-based vs. standalone, but of course, that comes with a higher cost. Is he set on bullet cams, or would box or dome styles be better suited here? 14 days' storage shouldn't be difficult, as long as he's not set on 30fps or other excessive expectations.

Actually, draping them across the joists is just fine. The only real concern might be damage from someone crawling around in the attic. But if you want to keep them up from there, you can just zap-strap them to the trusses - no fancy clamping needed, and yes, they can all be bundled together. I've done sites where 16 cameras run to a MUX at one end of a store, and then a bundle of 16 RG59s take the signal from there to another MUX and VCR at the back of the store, 100+ feet away. "Proper"? Well, unless local code requires it, there's no need to dress it up - you can just punch a hole through the drywall and pull the wire through... nothing wrong with that, except it's not very pretty. You can cut out a cleaner hole and use an "easy-box" frame in it, then drill a large enough hole in a standard wall plate and pull the cables through that to make it nice and clean. Keep in mind that none of this cable is carrying any voltage, other than about a 1V video signal. If you're running power along with it, that's maybe 12VDC or 24VAC, generally classified as "low voltage" and not usually needing any special handling.

The way you quoted your tech, with "...won't have...ability to stream the data through the wiring", it sounded like he was ascribing some sort of high-level processing to the breakout cable.

I haven't had a chance to test it, but I strongly suspect the GV octopus is identical to the one Vigil and VI uses... in which case, pin 9 isn't used. Probably depends on the quality of the cable. Cheap cables used for actual VGA extension tend to introduce bad ghosting especially at higher resolutions; I would expect a cheap one to also cause problems with this type of signal. I have a 25' extension stashed away in a bin somewhere, if I can find that I'll test it with a Vigil.

BTW, if you give me an email address, I can set this IQ511 to send you some sample motion-triggered clips. I can set the number of pre-trigger and post-trigger images as well as the interval between them... There's also a time-lapse option to send images at a regular set interval. Motion areas are user-definable, with multiple overlapping windows, each with their own sensitivity, as well as "exclude" areas, so it can be fairly fine-tuned.