Soundy

Sounds about right... one site, I have 23 cameras at D1 and an average of 4fps, and five 1.3MP IP cams at 4fps, all motion-record, and for 90 days' retention, we needed to get to 9.5TB of storage.

I'd go with the distribution-amp idea in this case... the problem with looping through is that not all monitor "pass-thrus" will load the line properly, and you're no better off than if you were using a bunch of T-splitters. It may work, it may not, and you don't want to wait until it's all done to find out that it won't. Home-running each monitor feed and using a distro amp is guaranteed to work.

Like I say, power issues wouldn't (or certainly shouldn't) cause the problems you're seeing. If voltage is dropping too much at the cameras, you'd have them cutting out completely, but the problems you describe sound like wiring issues, either with low-quality wire, electrical interference, or poor termination. You can meter the power at the cameras to be sure, but I don't expect you'll find the problem there. If anything, that would affect the COMPLETE view, not just specific cameras. You could even just try swapping a good camera with a problem camera, and see if the issue follows it. Also try swapping a couple inputs between a good and bad camera and see if the issue follows as well (rule out problems with the DVR inputs). By any chance, are the runs for the five problem cameras running through the same area, possibly near an EMI source like an HVAC controller or motor, or a lighting transformer or something?

My answer doesn't change: if YOU have found the technology isn't sufficient for YOUR needs, that's all fine and good.... but you're not trying to tell everyone else that it won't be sufficient for THEIR needs either.

Where did he say that? http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14855&start=43 That's all fine and well... saying that the ones YOU'VE seen are not suitable for YOUR NEEDS is perfectly valid, but there's a big difference between saying that, and someone making blanket statements that something isn't suitable for ANYONE in a similar situation, especially when it's clear others ARE using them for those purposes. Well, I can suggest looking at the IQ "Pro" series cameras, if your NVR supports them... the Sentinel and 700/750 series cameras state they'll do 30fps @ 1.3MP. I don't work for IQ, BTW, but I use their cameras regularly and have been pretty happy with their performance. And like I say, that's perfectly valid. But you're not the one making the blanket statements and wild claims without being able to back them up. And FWIW, the only times I've seen our IQ cameras drop off, I've eventually traced it back to network issues, either a cheap switch or router choking from the traffic, or sketchy wiring. Sketchy wiring will cause problems with ANY camera system.

I like this, I have alot of those that I have found during repairs. Answer: This is my concern: simply telling someone new to the whole thing, "Oh, just go to 24V instead of 12V!" may be a recipe for disaster, if he doesn't realize that not all cameras will survive 24V and just blindly makes the change. And besides, voltage drop would cause the affected cameras to simply drop out, not "fade in and out" as described. If you say so.. What solutions would you suggest if the skill level of the receiver is below basic 12/24V knowledge? Just what I suggested right off the top: "make sure the cameras support 24VAC first". Specifically, prudent advice would have been, "16 cameras on one 12VDC? My guess is that you have some problems with tension. Especially on the cameras farthest away from the power supply. I'd try 24VAC instead, IF THE CAMERAS SUPPORT IT."

I like this, I have alot of those that I have found during repairs. Answer: This is my concern: simply telling someone new to the whole thing, "Oh, just go to 24V instead of 12V!" may be a recipe for disaster, if he doesn't realize that not all cameras will survive 24V and just blindly makes the change. And besides, voltage drop would cause the affected cameras to simply drop out, not "fade in and out" as described.

So after all your longwinded technical bafflegab, you can't even answer some basic technical questions about the technology being used? Of course you need a "protocol". Even analog video has to conform to signal and transmission standards of some sort - you can't just take the electric impulses coming off the sensor and send them over long distances to a waiting DVR. NTSC and PAL are the two most common examples of analog video "protocols", but they're limited to available resolution. This is the stumbling block: existing common analog-HD standards are still resolution-limited... so what is the new standard being used? BTW, you claim that megapixel IP cameras "can't" be used in casinos... maybe you should tell IQ about that, as they don't seem to be aware of what their cameras "can't" do...

What do you consider a "digital" monitor? Standard 27" CRT TVs can still be had with composite and component-video inputs. There may still be some around with VGA inputs as well.

If you want more detailed technical info, you can look up the 802.11 spec at www.ieee.org. There's also some good info in this PDF: http://sss-mag.com/pdf/802_11tut.pdf

True, unless the camera and DVR support "up-the-coax" control. That is both rare and not the most reliable method. Also known as "Coaxitron", if you're looking around for it. Usually. The vast majority of PTZ's use RS422/RS485 communication for data. Although RS422/RS485 can be bi-directional, for PTZ control you only need 1-way communication - transmit at the controller and receive at the PTZ. CAT-5 twisted pair is the most common method, using one pair, but I've also used 22/2 shielded and even 18/2 twisted power cables for short runs. Using CAT-5, control can be run up to 4000 feet. I've done it with a variety of wiring as well. In some cases, I've even successfully run control, video and power over a single piece of Cat-5e: one pair for serial, one for video (with baluns) and two for power. It depends. You can safely daisy-chain up to three PTZ's on one data line; even more if you turn off the termination on all but the last one in the chain. If you can't daisy-chain due to the PTZ's being in widely spaced locations, you can use a "code distribution unit". Pelco makes the CM9760-CDU-T which handles up to 16 PTZ's (more if you daisy-chain on each output). The less expensive alternative is the Kalatel KTD-83, which has 5 outputs, and it's brother, the KTD-83-16, that has 16 outputs. This may depend on the cameras and/or controller used, too... I have three Capture PTZs connected "star"-style to a Capture controller, with no problems. Either way, you're really just connecting all the cameras in parallel.

Good point 12 VDC over more than 100ft of cable gives more tension fall, which you don't have with 24VAC. That's true, but having 16 cameras on one supply doesn't necessarily have anything to do with that. There are plenty out there that are DESIGNED for 16 or more 12V outputs. And again, if the cameras are designed for 12VDC only, using 24VAC will fry them pretty quickly.

16 cameras on one 12VDC? My guess is that you have some problems with tension. Especially on the cameras farthest away from the power supply. I'd try 24VAC instead. Ummm, yeah, might wanna make sure the cameras support 24VAC first, or you'll have a lot of very pricey paperweights. 16 cameras on a single 12VDC power supply isn't a big deal, provided it can supply enough power.

Yeah, what type of screws you use really depends on what you're fastening the box to...I like Tapcons for brick and concrete as well, although there are times a standard nylon anchor works better. Beyond that... self-tapping or self-drilling screws for sheet metal, wood screws for wood... etc.

Chances are that that isn't s-video, but a proprietary connector that both feeds the camera power, and returns the video. A simple adapter likely won't work, because the pins used for power and video will vary with the specific design. The DIN connectors themselves should be available from any electronics-supply house, but for an adapter, you'll probably have to determine the pinouts used by that specific device and custom-wire it.

Yeah, they got bought by Seagate Anyone else here had a spate of system failures over the last couple years, from cheap motherboard capacitors blowing? I've seen probably a couple dozen of one particular system model go belly-up just within the last year... every one of them suffering a half-dozen or so popped electrolytic caps.

But the big question is: do they really want to? Although the ONVIF (Open Network Video Interface Forum), which includes Axis, Sony and Bosch, is working on some standards, in reality they are fighting an uphill battle against the many smaller manufacturers; especially the Chinese, who want their own set of standards. I wouldn't hold my breath for real standards any time soon. Alas, that's an issue with just about anything... and the only thing that will make them change their minds is consumer pressure. If an analog camera manufacturer decided they didn't want their cameras to output using NTSC or PAL, they'd have a very limited market indeed. Likewise an IP camera maker who decided to use something other than 10/100base-T for their connectivity - say, 10base-2, token-ring, or even something proprietary for their IP transport - would find little interest in their products. Consumer demand for a standard is the only thing that will interest them... if Axis/Sony/Bosch can get something going, it will probably make all three much more attractive to the market, and others will have to fall in line to compete. Of course, they also ALL need to realize that the lack of cross-compatibility is one of the last things holding their market back. The assumption that IP cameras can fill in for two or three analog cameras is quite a stretch. That is only in some specific cases and only when you are using megapixel cameras. 640x480 IP cameras have no better resolution than their analog equivalents and would require a 1:1 swap. Yes, poor wording on my part, using "IP" and "megapixel" interchangeably. That's why I said, "in MANY cases". I work mainly with retail - fuel services (pump and c-store cameras), restaurants, pubs, liquor stores. There are very VERY few instances I've found where megapixel cameras don't provide at least a 2:1 benefit over analog. It used to be a harder sell when the cameras were $1500 vs. about $250 for a good-quality analog camera, but now that those same 1.3MP cams can be had for $500-$600 (our cost), it's getting a lot more cost-effective, especially since the price of the same analog cameras has changed little if any. Megapixel/IP technology is only going to get better and cheaper, very quickly.

PCI vs. PCI-e doesn't have a direct effect on your image quality... PCI-e provides higher bus speeds and MAY (depending on other factors) allow higher framerates at higher resolutions without impacting system performance as much, but the "quality" is still a function of the capture device, the framerate, the resolution, and the compression used. It's possible that if your machines are under-powered, you can't get the resolution and compression levels you need for the quality you want, but I don't think going to PCI-e cards will solve that. I recently installed a Vigil "Pro-Series" system that can do up to 30fps on all of 32 cameras (960fps total)... I don't believe it's using a PCI-e capture device. See http://www.3xlogic.com/H.264-Hybrid-DVR-Analog-IP-Megapixel-Camera-Video-Surveillance-Recorder

Hmmm... are these cameras in a particularly damp environment, or in a location near the ocean (salty air)? Two months, I would suspect corrosion is starting to set in on your connections. Are your cables all-copper conductors?

That's a bit misleading, really. There are plenty of standard in use - 10/100 ethernet, video codecs, video streams - it's mostly just the individual interfaces and communication "languages" that differ. Those would be very easy for the manufacturers to standardize, if they wanted to. I'm sure a lot of companies have that perception, but the reality is, the TOTAL cost isn't that much more. IP cameras have dropped to the point they're only about twice the cost of a *comparable* analog camera, while one IP camera can easily provide the same coverage as two or even three *comparable* analog cameras for many uses. Right there, the cameras alone are the same price or LESS than using analog... it only SEEMS like it would be more expensive if you're doing a direct 1:1 swap-in of analog for IP. Factor in that an NVR is (or should be) typically less expensive than a *comparable* DVR or hybrid system, because it doesn't require additional capture hardware. Some cameras even include basic recording software. There's just no hope for some, analog or IP. The ones that are concerned more with cost will go with a $500 all-inclusive camera/DVR package from Costco, because they're more concerned with simply having cameras, than having usable video. There's no point trying to sell anything to them, be it IP, or simply high-quality analog. They REALLY don't like it when you prove you know more than they do Sure it does, but it's also in how you sell it. As noted above, an all-IP-based system can be more cost-effective in a lot of cases, if done properly. "Look, I can give you this system with a $1500 DVR and 8 cameras... or this system with a $600 NVR that only requires 4 cameras." And in my experience, megapixel cameras sell themselves with a lot of customers - you just have to show them a few still shots. Everyone I've ever shown them to is blown away and wants to know when I can upgrade ALL their cameras... sites where I install even one, they almost immediately want the rest done as well. Unfortunately, most of them don't actually make the purchasing decisions, but still, nobody seems to complain about the massive jump in image quality.

Sounds like a cabling issue, just off the top of my head... RG-what? 6, 58, 59? I don't like twist-on connectors - not only are they hard on the fingers after you do a few, but they're really susceptible to poor connections if not done right. Not likely related to the lighting unless you can correlate the fading to lights being turned on or off. You can always check if the cameras have a "flicker" setting that's designed to compensate for some issues caused by flourescent lighting, but I don't think this is one of them.

Oh... don't forget a good cordless drill, and an assortment of wood, steel, and masonry bits and hole saws. Something with hammer-drill functionality will be extra useful if you ever need to mount cameras to brick or concrete walls (although you may need to rent something like a full-size Hilti or Bosch for those bigger holes). Tapcon screws are lifesavers for this as well. I can't stress enough, too... if you're really planning on doing this professionally, DO NOT cheap out on your basic tools! Some things you can get away with having them break and wear out after some moderate use, but good quality tools are not only more reliable, they tend to be smoother-operating, more accurate, and just all around nicer to use, leading to less job stress. This ESPECIALLY holds true of power tools - my beat-up old 14V NiCad Milwaukee cordless drill continues to kick ass over my co-worker's 18V Ryobi kit, which contains two drills (one regular, one hammer), an impact driver, and two lithium-ion batteries he got in addition to the NiCads they shipped with. The Milwaukee just keeps chugging away while he's constantly switching batteries, or even switching drills, as the hammer-drill is stronger but its chuck has a nasty tendency to loosen itself. I think the Milwaukee cost about as much as its own as his complete drill/recip-saw/sander/light/mini-vac/radio kit did... you really do get what you pay for. Don't get me wrong, the Ryobi is pretty good for a low-cost kit (as the foreman on one site put it with regard to his own Ryobi kit, you don't worry as much if someone borrows one and it doesn't come back), and for something you only use occasionally, budget tools will usually be just fine... but when you're relying on a tool working day in and day out, you'll be glad you spent the extra for quality.

Nice little kit! I was going to recommend going with compression connectors over standard two- and three-piece crimp types - way easier to work with, very solid if done properly, and most versions form watertight connections. Another thing you'll want to look at is tools for doing RJ-45 connections, in case you need to install IP cameras, and/or connect DVRs to a network. A good set of crimpers should be all you really need, as they should have built-in tools for stripping and cutting Cat-5e/Cat-6 cable... or you can go with a complete kit. You'll also want something in a small portable monitor for aiming and focusing cameras. You can get nice "professional" units designed specifically for CCTV, that have high-resolution LCDs, can output 12VDC for powering cameras, generate a test signal, and have pass-thrus for your camera signal. Those tend to be a bit on the pricier side, though ($300+ range)... for just starting out, you can get a cheap portable DVD player with A/V inputs for well under $100. The screen resolution isn't as high, but they're sufficient for probably 99% of the work you'll do. Another option, especially if you'll be working with IP cameras, is a small-ish laptop and some sort of video-capture add-on (or better yet, a laptop with built-in video capture, although those are rare). I have an Adaptec GameBridge (cost about $30) that I use with my laptop to input analog video via USB, and it works great for tweaking cameras... and with a retractable network cable with crossover switch, it's good for configuring and adjusting IP cameras as well. Also useful (actually, damn near indispensable): - A set of fiberglass "glow rods" (or "fish sticks" as we like to call them). - A good multimeter (with or without the rest of the kit, although the electrical testers can be handy at times). Audible continuity test is important! - A pair of GOOD cutter/crimpers (Channel-Locks or similar)... you'll be crimping other wires besides just coax (power runs, spade terminals, etc.) and something that operates smoothly and has long handles for good leverage will really make life a lot more comfortable over time And in the nice-to-have category: - Signal tracer - Cable tester (network or coax, or find one that does both in one unit) (Many cable testers also have signal-tracer functionality, although you may still need the seeker wand). Note: I've linked to Sears pages, since you're already shopping there, but there are plenty of other options out there! For example, I use a LanRoamer network tester kit and highly recommend it - it doesn't just do continuity checks on the cables, but will tell you what sort of wiring faults it finds (if any), as well as where breaks and shorts are in the line, and the total length of a run. It, too, has a signal-tracer function that I can use with my regular tracer's wand, and the kit I went with has 8 remote modules for helping identify runs (the base module will tell you which of 8 it's connected to).

Until then, the whole concept is "RSN", isn't it? One can make grandiose promises of what's "just around the corner" until the proverbial cows come home... don't mean squat in the real world until it's actually available for purchase. Well, you can run component over Cat-5e with baluns... or you could put HDMI outputs into your cameras, but your distance would be pretty limited without expensive extenders. Hence the question above. Hope we all agree that if the "analog HD" is not one in the SMPTE book, then you are cooking something that is far worse than IP transmission if I need to use new cables and interfaces at the DVR side just to capture the bits. And please articulate how you go above 1080p (1920x1080) which the current broadcast standards support. That's my main concern as well.

Therein lies the other problem: how long will it take this technology to get to market? Not prototypes or demos or brochures, but to actually be available for purchase at a reasonable cost? BTW, if you "don't have space" for IP infrastructure, I don't see how this would be any better. Storage systems won't take any less physical space - you still need a ****load of drives. Cabling certainly won't take less space; in fact, it would probably take more cabling as everything would have to be home-run. The only additional equipment needed for IP is the switch(es)... 24 ports in 1U is pretty compact. Make it a PoE switch and you don't even need a separate power supply for the cameras.