Soundy

Is this the same guy that quoted you $135 each for $20 cameras? I'd ask the builder to just terminate all the runs into a patch bay, like this: Then you can provide your own switch or switches. Consider that if you prewire with lots of Cat5e, as I suggested above, not all of those are going to be network runs. Terminating into a patchbay then allows you to easy assign whatever runs you want to whatever purpose at any time. It also simplifies keeping track of connections - for example, you could label the first four spaces as "K1", "K2", "K3" and "K4" for four kitchen drops, and so on (make sure to have matching markings on the wall plates at the other end). Then, say, you add a "Smart TV" to your living room and want to plug it in - you just plug it into the nearby jack "L3" (for example), then at the other end, you just find "L3" and connect that to your switch. If you've color-coded the jacks at the other end, you can even use color-coded patch cables to match (as in the picture). You could also potentially control costs by having separate PoE switch for any PoE devices... so for example, instead of paying for a 24-port PoE switch, you could have a cheaper 16-port standard switch for most things and an 8-port PoE switch for cameras or anything else that uses it. That's generally the case. If you have a router with a DHCP server (most do), many cameras will get an IP automatically from that, so you just need their utility software to find it.

That'll work - there are lots of those out there. That will also mean you're ready to easily add up to two more cameras later on. I wouldn't even worry about a patch panel in this case: terminate the Cat5e in an RJ45 plug, and plug it right into the balun. Screw the balun to the wall (or whatever you're mounting it to), anchor the Cat5 in place, and you're done. Yeah, probably 200-300'. I've been using mostly GEM baluns (www.gemelec.com) and find them reliable and cost-effective. They also have the quad units like you show above. Given the distance involved, I'd probably use active at the camera end and passive at the DVR end.

Suggestion: anywhere you think you want to pull a cable to... pull four. Cat5e is relatively cheap, especially in bulk (retail around here is about 35c/ft, or <$100 for a 1000' box, which is <10c/ft)... get it in place while it's easy, and you save a bundle on what it would cost (not to mention the headache) to add more later. Keep in mind that with the proper adapters/extenders/baluns, you can run VGA, HDMI, KVM (keyboard/video/mouse), USB, CATV (cable TV), analog phone, audio, component video, remote control, or just about any other type of signal you want, over UTP, as well as network. Drop four runs into a corner and you can have your cable, your phone, and two network jacks, if you want... most manufacturers of the wall jacks even have multiple colors available, so you can color-code things: red for phone, blue for network, yellow for cable, perhaps.

$85 for what? For how much? Ten feet, 50, 500? WAY over-priced - you can get a similarly-spec'd Dahua for under $350 Total crap. Specs on it are terrible. This camera blows it out of the water and can be found for $165. So he's basically doing the job for minimum wage and making all his money on equipment markup? Or plans to just string the wires by stapling them along the walls?

The thing with running Cat5 or Cat6 is, it can be used for analog OR IP cameras. You could start with a hybrid recorder and all analog cameras, and just replace them with IP cameras as the budget allows. Pretty much... the only other thing you need is a PoE-capable switch... and you need a switch anyway, for all your network stuff to plug into; PoE is just an added feature (and added cost, but then that's off-setting the cost of a separate camera power supply). PoE stands for Power over Ethernet, and it's a standard (IEEE-802.3af, if you want to look it up) that defines how to run power and ethernet over the same cable. ALMOST all (probably 99.9%) IP cameras support it, as well as numerous other IP devices like wireless access points, VoIP phones, etc.

^That's not Cat3, either - the cable "categories" refer to different specs of twisted pair. That stuff in the picture is just flat cabling. Not that it won't work, just wanting to clarify terms. Plus, the rating of the power supply doesn't tell us anything - the current requirements of the camera are what matter.

You could always forego the cables altogether and do IP over Ubiquiti wireless (assuming you've got line-of-sight between the two buildings) - probably be cheaper in the long run, than putting up the poles and stringing messenger-equipped cable. Other than that, I think you'd be better off using the Cat5, just for cost considerations: looking at retail prices around here, retail pricing for RG59 or RG6 is a bit more than cost of Cat5e, and you'd need twice as much of it - call it around $100 for a 1000' box of either, and you're talking $50 vs. $100 for cabling... plus the UTP gives you the ability to add two more video feeds later, with no extra cable cost.

To a large degree, you get what you pay for, so use price as an indicator. If one camera is $60 and a similar one is $120, there's a good chance the $60 is pretty lacking by comparison - check the fourth post here noting some of the differences between a particular $65 camera and a $165 camera: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=30179. Naturally that's not the ONLY thing to go on, but it will give you a starting point.

You only need one pair for the comms; if you're using the Cat3 for power, use all three other pairs. Depends - what's the length of the run, and what are the current requirements of the camera? PTZs tend to be rather power-hungry; however, three pairs of 24ga. is approximately equivalent to 18ga. Yup, just make sure you get the polarity right. Sure. Go for it.

hi. dont spend alot of money on cameras if you are going to use that q-see card. for that card look for cameras around the $40- $60. your only recording in low FPS at CIF (you cant make it better by buying 600tvl cameras) your just wasting money. http://www.apexcctv.com/c-49-infrared-security-cameras.aspx What would be the equivalent max TVL in terms of the card? No analog cards will record higher than D1, which is 720x480 for NTSC video. Essentially, anything over 480TVL is wasted - some people's tests show slight noticeable differences going up to about 600TVL, others not so much. There's a lot more to quality video than just the vertical resolution. Long story short: don't get hung up on TVL numbers. It's an indicator of relative resolution... it's not a sure indicator of overall image quality.

That depends on the size of the cable you're using and the camera's power requirements. If you're using basic 18/2, or two or three pairs of a Cat5e run, you're fine at 100' with either of these cameras. The CNB is rated "12VDC/24VAC" but in reality it will work with anything from about 10V-30V, AC or DC. As far as zoom, this and the CNB are about the same - the CNB is 2.8-10.5mm; the difference won't be noticeable. The Qvis is not (or doesn't appear to be, from the listed specs) a true day/night model, which means for the IR LEDs to be effective, it won't have an IR cut filter over the sensor - that can adversely affect color rendition. The CNB uses a cut filter to block IR when it's in day (color) mode, and moves it aside for better performance when it goes to night (B&W) mode. The CNB also uses their Monalisa chip, which makes for really good low-light performance without the need of IR. What specs I can find on the Qvis camera don't list any "real" low-light numbers, only the usual "0 lux (with IR)", which does nothing to tell you how well the camera actually works in low light... this is generally an indication it's pretty poor.

Wireless is like anything else with technology: there's good stuff out there, but you're not usually going to get it for pennies. We looked at analog wireless for a project several years ago... it turned out that trenching and laying several hundred feet of conduit was a lot cheaper.

I still find it amusing that "hardwired" knows so much about wireless

Keep in mind that you need a 64-bit OS to take advantage of anything over ~3.5GB of RAM, and if you do that, you want to make sure your VMS is compatible. Don't get too stupid on the video card, either - camera playback doesn't need a high-end 3D gaming card. Better yet, get a PoE switch and then you don't have to power the cameras separately. You don't need a separate router, though - just plug your cameras, NVR, and network storage (if necessary) into their own switch, then connect that into your network. It's not like the old days of hubs, where that camera traffic is going to flood the whole network. Also, you want to make sure the switch has gigabit ports for AT LEAST the NVR and optional storage. The cameras don't need it because almost no IP cameras have gigabit on them anyway. And make sure not to cheap out on the switch - you need something with sufficient backplane to handle all that aggregate traffic. As to that storage: with 16 megapixel cameras, you'll really want to consider some kind of external RAID array, because that's going to take up a LOT of space. Optionally, you can look at RAID systems from the likes of QNAP or Synology, that combine NVR functionality in them. QNAP has a line that's specifically oriented toward being an NVR, with extensive support for different IP cameras (www.qnapsecurity.com). And on that note, if you do go the IP route, you need to check your NVR's compatibility list and make sure the cameras you use are on it.

If memory serves, the trial version stops working after 45 uses or 45 days... and it puts a watermark on everything... and I think it limits your ability to export the final product.

Honestly, if I were recommend a specific one, it would be this: CNB VCM-24VF It doesn't have IR, because it doesn't need IR; it will give you excellent performance with very little ambient light. It's dual-voltage and will work with just about any power source from 10-30V, AC or DC. It's IP66 rated and can even be mounted in direct weather. If you MUST have IR cameras, you'll have to wait for someone else to chime in - I don't use them at all.

That Speco camera is NOT a true-day/night like the CNB. The *real* minimum lux specs (0.03) is similar the CNB's in color mode, but in night mode the CNB is far superior. The "Intensifier" feature is just their version of SENS-UP or DSS (Digital Slow Shutter), meaning to get that low-light picture, even a snail's movement will be blurred. It's also a fixed lens, where the CNB is a 2.8-10.5. All in all, it's really NOT a better camera, especially not if it goes at or near the same price. Different cameras do different things. Some, like the Speco, slow the shutter down to allow more light, but that leads to more motion blur. Some have their own low-light processing, like the CNB's Monalisa chip. Any "true day/night" camera will benefit at night as the IR cut filter moves aside to allow more ambient IR light in. It's NEVER recommended to aim a camera through the window, IR or not - the same way the IR reflected back for you, any visible light in the room will as well. At night you'll get reflections of objects in the room (think of how a window in a bright room looks like a mirror at night even to the naked eye). Dude, for real... save yourself the frustration, tell the wife to stay out of the way.

How do you know it's being wasted? Maybe they're watching for alien incursion. Maybe it's capturing the CEO's helipad.

Ah-ha! So if you're set for MD recording, and it's recording all the time at night, there's no difference if you switch to constant record, so why bother? Come winter when the bugs subside, then you have to switch back to MD... so why not just leave it alone in the first place? Bingo!

If you think that quote is expensive, wait until you put your eBay system together... then start running into headaches with busted gear, parts that aren't what they claim to be, exaggerated advertising claims, and useless post-sale service. If it's a reputable integrator, that quote will include warranty on the installation itself, and plenty of after-sale support and service. One of our major clients is an upscale restaurant chain, so I'm quite familiar with the type of systems suited to these things. The last site we did was about 120 seats, and we ended up with 30 cameras in the design (and two more added after they opened). Of course, it WAS two floors, and these guys want 100% coverage of public areas: they went the cheap route before, with crappy IR bullets in a few "junction points" and a few in the kitchen... then found too many incidents were getting missed, and what they did record, wasn't very good quality. Watching what? "Package" systems have issues of their own, not the least of which is the fact they don't suit specific cameras to specific needs... something that's particularly important in a retail situation. They also tend to be low-quality cameras with lousy low-light performance (which can be critical in a restaurant) and compensate for it with cheap IR. This has been discussed and debated extensively here. In general, PC systems tend to be more configurable and flexible in the long run, especially when it comes to adding storage. Here's an analog camera recording at CIF resolution (352x280) in a liquor store: Here's an IQEye IQ511 1.3MP camera mounted right above it (click for full-size image, as the forum shrinks it for display -note the cheap dome in the bottom-left of the frame): Over in their attached lounge, this is the same model cheap dome recording at D1 (720x480): And this is the same model 1.3MP camera mounted right beside it:: In our latest restaurant job, this is an analog camera recording at D1 at one end of the upstairs lounge: And this is a 2MP dome at the other end of the lounge (again, click for full size): I don't know if Sony makes CCTV cameras at all any more, and even when they did, they were mid-grade at best. When you see "Sony" listed on eBay cameras, 99.999% of the time it only means the image sensor itself is made by Sony - it's probably a low-grade sensor, and that speaks nothing to the quality of anything else in the camera: there's a LOT more to what produces a good image than just the name on the sensor. They're traditionally not very good. That's only a four-channel system, vs. 16-channel for all the others you've listed. How many cameras do you actually need? Honestly, you're not going to get ANY level of quality from 16-camera package without starting near the top end of that price range. A number of cameras in the $100 range that should do for starters, and a few different 16-channel DVRs that will come in under $1000. This is the camera CNB VCM-24F I would highly recommend (we use these extensively in our restaurants) - a bit more expensive, but worth it for their low-light image quality. BTW, none of the cameras listed on your fleaBay links could be considered "long reach" - the ones in the first link, for example, list 3.6mm lenses for the indoor cameras, which gives you a reasonably wide view, but not quite enough to completely capture a corner mounting. The outdoor cameras are 6mm lenses, which aren't really wide enough to capture a large area, and not long enough to get very much detail... and none of them are adjustable. The CNB cameras, by contrast, include 2.8-10.5mm varifocal lenses, which let you adjust the area of view anywhere from nearly 90 degrees, to around 30 degrees for those close-up detailed shots.

Sorry, what I meant to say is just record full time at night and motion during the day. And if the problem is that bug movement is constantly triggering recording, how does this give any different results?

Netbook FTW. Small, light, incredible battery life, and the LED screen is viewable even in bright sunlight... and, full Windows system so IE-only cameras work with it. For externally-powered cameras, I just plug it right in with a network cable (got a nifty retractable one in my laptop bag) - the GbE network port is auto-MDI/MDI-X switching, so I don't need to worry about a crossover cable. For PoE cameras, I carry a Veracity PinPoint. I also carry a WiFi router that I can just plug into the network and access them all while they're fully operational.

What's the alternative?

Welcome aboard! Choice of camera depends somewhat on what you need the camera to do - different models are better for different purposes. Something that's going outdoors should be outdoor-rated and ideally vandal-resistant. For indoors, you might want something a little more discrete. It also depends a lot on your budget - I recommend this CNB camera VCM-24VF as a really good, extremely versatile all-around camera with great picture and low-light performance... but it's also a little higher on the price scale than some of the others.

It's probably the noise in the image caused by too much gain - when it's too dark, the camera electronically boosts the image level, but the low-level electrical noise gets boosted as well, which usually causes things like shifting color blocks in the picture, which can trigger motion detection. Does this happen on all the cameras, or just some? What cameras are they? If they're IR cameras, you can also get bugs or even just dust in the air triggering motion detection, as these things are very reflective of the IR light.