SS360

Are you using any other software to view the cameras? Possibly the Vivotek software that is free? I would never expect internet explorer to be able to flash 30jpg images a second and 1mp.

One thing to check is the network protocol that is being used. TCP network protocol can cause delays in video security because of the constant high volume of information transporting and when you use TCP it has to check itself for errors sometimes going back to the camera requesting dropped packets. If you can change the network protocol to communicate in UDP then you will get and faster flow of information because there is no error checking. If there are small bits of information lost it usually will show up as slight pixilation in the image instead of a delay or skipped frame due to TCP's attempt to go back and error check.

However I have never seen the ability to change stream protocol within Vivotek without using a software as advanced as Genetec VMS. BUT I haven't used Vivotek in a couple years now so they may have changed their firmware to accept it, worth a call to Vivotek.

Ok, so from the looks of it there is something called SMT (Simultaneous Multi-threading Technology) as well as API (Application Programming Interface). These two things effect how much information a software can handle. Basically since we are building multiple core processors now, we need software that can divide and send information to multiple cores properly. I'm still researching this, however from the looks of it heavy software companies have been burdened by creating proper code when it comes to handling the ability to divide and send information to multiple processors at the same time. Now I'm still not sure if this is only on the operating system level or if it actually effects the individual software companies. If anybody has any information on this please share. Thanks!

I don't understand how software can be the limiting factor unless it's 32-bit, then I can see it hitting a wall at 3.2MB of RAM. The rest can be mitigated as new rack mount servers can support 24 HDD, multiple disk controllers, multiple CPU sockets, each with 8-10 cores, up to 2TB of RAM, 4 port 10GigE NICs. Do they have an explanation of what the bottleneck is?

 

With resolution growing, and I see 8MP cameras being the norm with 4K TVs and monitors within two to three years, 250Mbps is just an unrealistic bottleneck, maybe per GigE NIC it's reasonable, but not per server.

I completley agree, I have been trying to resolve this issue with Genetec and it is starting to feel like a sales gimick that has been put in place to impliment more software and sales.

Here is the question I asked genetec...

Support,

I was hoping to get an explaination I can understand about the limitation of throughput that Genetec can process. I know the recommended throughput calculations for 5.1 and 5.2 can be up to 300 cameras or 300 Mbps on a stand alone archiver, which then goes down to 100 cameras or 200 Mbps on a machine running both the Directory and Archiver. So my question is... Where does this limitation actually exist? Is this the limitation of information in which the "Software" can actually process?

When this limitation hits, I have processing power on the machine, I have availability on the network with an avg. utilization of 20% used when this limitation is hit (Directory and Archiver). So does that lead back to a limitation of a software being able to process something? Where is the actual choke point?

Thanks!

Ryan

Here is the Response....

Hello Ryan,

From experience we always recommend 300 Mbps but that number can be surpassed in some cases depending on your setup, hardware, discs and so on... That’s why we have to mention 300 mbps in our documentation.

We would advise to contact your Sales Engineer when it comes to calculate the maximum your system will stay stable depending on your setup.

Thank you,

Some food for thought here.

 

I have a 50Mb internet connection.

My Residential Avigilon Server has a 100Mb Local Network connection.

 

Using DU meter my total camera recording stream is about 30Mb.

 

When I run speed test to the internet on this machine I was getting 15Mb internet speed.

I moved the machine to a 1Gb port and repeated the speed test. I got the full 50Mb internet speed.

 

This proves that performance gets drastically reduced before you get close to the ceiling of the specs.

This theory would imply that you had a gigabit modem right?

Don't confuse hard drive buffers with stream recording capability. The maximum safe bit rate a system can record at is a function of its throughput, which is determined by network throughput, CPU speed, amount of RAM and storage throughput. Each of these components limit the maximum total system throughput, and you still have to allow overhead for ancillary functions like reading files (viewing recordings) and worst-case system degradation due to factors like drive rebuilds and slow drive response times.

Thanks survtech! That really helps, I posted my last message before reading your explanation.

OK so here are some additional notes from Genetec that make me think this "throughput" limitation is a "Software Processing Limitation"

1. A more powerful server thatn the high end specification will not necessarily increase the maximum capacity

2. Maximum capacity of a virtual machine with the exact same specificaitons as the proposed "metal box" is reduced by 20%

3. A dedicated Network Interface Card (NIC) should be assigned per instance of the Archiver Role when using virtualization

4. Virtual machine must run on Windows Server 2008 R2 / 2012 and VMware Ready hardware

Since they are digging into virtualization as a solution I can't seem to relate it to the hardware or network limitations. Or they could just be saying that if virtualization exists then follow the above guidelines.

I have this question into Genetec Support, I will update the post when I get something that makes sense to me.

Cheers!

I understand this said to be a network limitation, but I do not fully understand where this limitation actually exists so the closest I could find was a buffering limitation. So I am hoping to find someone that can explain it in a manner I can understand.

So if this is a network limitation why is my network only at 20% when I run into issues?

I have processing speed. I have RAM availability. I have network availability. Are we saying the software is processing data with a limitation that is smaller then the processor of the machine/network it resides?

I'm confused please explain.

I understand this said to be a network limitation, but I do not fully understand where this limitation actually exists so the closest I could find was a buffering limitation. So I am hoping to find someone that can explain it in a manner I can understand.

So if this is a network limitation why is my network only at 20% when I run into issues?

I have processing speed. I have RAM availability. I have network availability. Are we saying the software is processing data with a limitation that is smaller then the processor of the machine/network it resides?

I'm confused please explain.

Thanks for all the great information gentlemen. So your comments pointed me in this direction and correct me if I'm wrong, but basically older 7200 RPM drives have a 32MB buffer on it. 32MB = 256Mb.

All data needs to go through this buffer?

So that is why multiple archivers are needed?

But... if my Hard Drive has a 64MB buffer on it will the VMS process 512Mb/s?

Just trying to understand this mystery limitation...

I am the integrator. I am running Genetec 5.1 with service pack 8. It just seems that Genetecs software architecture was designed for analog cameras. As an example Genetec has a software limitation of processing 300mbps when running a stand alone archiver, but if you want to run the archiver and directory on the same machine it has a 200mbps limitation. This limitation was causing me to fail on pulling video from the archiver even though my hardware could handle the load. The software would fail the video extraction because it was causing over the limit network processing to occur. So since I am running the directory and archiver on the same server any time my gigabit network would spike over 20% the video extraction would fail. This limitation is all processing not just the bandwidth from the camera to the archiver, but from the archiver to the guard viewing client as well as to the video extraction no matter what machine it was being pulled off of.

Another example is the Security Desk client has a 5gb cache limit when viewing stored video directly out of tiles. The software will cache the video so it can be scrolled through faster which makes sense, however since I am running 5 megapixel Arecont cameras (which suck for bandwidth/storage) So when the customer reaches that 5gb limit of cached video it just stops allowing any more video to be viewed and after my rounds with Genetec the only way to clear it as of now is to close the program and re-open it.

The system I am referring to only has 24 physical cameras but due to the 180 cameras I have 33 video feeds.

I have an Exacq system running 55 Arecont 5 megapixel cameras and have no problems with it. So I was just seeing if anybody else is experiencing these issues with Genetec.

FYI, I have installed aftermarket lenses on Arecont cameras and it is amazing how much the lens that comes with it restricts it's clarity. The sensors in Arecont cameras are actually damn good.

I have multiple system running Genetec as well as multiple systems running Exacq. My Exacq systems I have to touch about once a year, however my Genetec systems are continually dropping cameras and video feeds. I only have IQinvision and Arecont cameras on these systems.

Anybody else out there having major reliability issues with Genetec?

OK, let's step back a notch and look at the details. Now I am not familiar with the UK at all, but can you utilize google maps or something equal?

Make a map of the cameras you would need. You may be able to group cameras that are close together and send multiple cameras over a single wireless connection. This way you can purchase cost effective equipment and then spend a little more money on a few links to connect the data together. A great point to point wireless company is MikroTik routers and they are an international company.

Now as for the cost you are definitly going to have to raise the bar a bit if you are talking wireless.

Also you can run coaxale cable for a longer distance I believe up to 1,100 feet in some instances with RG6 or RG11 cable so this means your 180 meters would be no problem. You can also put BNC connectors onto these cables.

So if you are trying to do it on the cheap I would say get direct burial rated RG6 cable, slap some BNC connectors on them, pick up a worker from the outside of home depot, have him dig a trench around your Marijuana fields for the cables, also keep in mind that some equipment has the capability of sending power over the coax cable as well.

Also think about connecting multiple DVR's together as some have this capability, this could allow you to group cameras better... possibly.

FYI, I have used converters to transfer ethernet to coax and ran it over 300 meters, transferred it back to ethernet, ran a 5mp camera on it, and it works great. Don't believe this 150 feet to 200 feet limitations on coax.

So... are you looking for a company to install a system or are you looking for a software that will work with a large system. How big is this airport?

Genetec is another system that is capable of handling a large airport, however if you are looking for an installer you can also call these major software companies (Avigalon, Genetec, Exacq, Milestone) and ask them if they have any certified partners in your area.

A certified partner is a contractor that has taken the required classes that the software company provides.

This was a quick lookup, but it seems like it may work for you since VLC can play H.264 compression. It's not really cutting, but should work in the same sense as you would be recording the video you need to a seperate file. I hope this works and I did not read the whole page =)

http://www.guidingtech.com/8802/use-vlc-as-video-cuting-tool/

Sometimes getting an electrician to add just a couple of dual flood bulb fixtures on day/night and motion sensing really adds value and helps you look good, because the cameras see much better at night. The worst thing to have is the customer spending all this money and then realizing that the 30' of good light you get out of the Infrared is not enough and the image is useless.

Also asking the customer if they have a preferred electrician sometimes works out good because they have already directly worked/billed with them and it is more of a management end on your part.

I use a softer light in the flood it spreads out over the image better. Usually about a 13 watt flourescent flood will light a good 60-70 feet of space up for the camera image.

There are many other options that I would go with like adding white ambient light is always the best. But to honor your choice I would do the following for outdoor purposes.

http://www.vivotek.com/web/product/ProductDetail.aspx?Model=IP8361

http://www.arecontvision.com/product/MegaView+Series/AV2125

I have installed both. The Arecont is a little bit of a bandwidth hog at night, other than that I like it. The Vivotek has just been a good camera overall and it is cost effective.

The advantage of Arecont here is that it goes all the way up to 5mp, just remember the higher the megapixel rating the lower the light levels will protray onto the image. As each pixel is smaller and lets less light into the image. That is why Analog cameras actually see better at night than the higher end megapixel cameras. The technology is getting better, just not quite there yet.

I have yet to install indoor IR and actually test it. There are some good sony indoor IR that I have installed, but it was as a sub to another contractor who integrated it into the software. So I have no comment on that.

Well I am IP Megapixel camera guy, however if you are going to stream the image over the internet live I would compare the resolution of the camera to the realistic resolution you can actually stream live over the internet. You probably know more about streaming live video than me since your a web designer. But from my experience I would...

Buy IP Megapixel cameras they support higher resolution for better clarity, and they can be powered by a P.O.E. swich over Cat5-6 cable. Almost all of them have built in web viewer, so you can port forward the IP address of the camera out over your router and log into the camera directly from anywere or even your phone. Also IP cameras come with Network Video Recording software that can be loaded on any PC connected to the network. So you can take a basic office computer, slap your 1tb external HD to it and use that as your video recorder. This would allow for a higher resolution viewing when monitoring for security reasons.

As for the website to avoid paying more to your web hosting service for the mass data you will use streaming live video. I would just get some good clips that could either simulate live feed or just put them as clips. This would satisfy your customers.

And thats why you dont catch me walking around my yard empty handed at night * cough * while doing a little gardening ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOQSO8N3YLc

Hahaha rory is going to give someone a haircut. I like the music. " title="Applause" />

You should watch closely at the end I put a picture of a dog peeing on the bush in front of the house lol

This is a time laps I created using a 5mp IQinvision camera. I just took still frames and put them together in a movie editing program. You can control the time inbetween frames, these ones are kinda long, but it does the trick. Basically its like a big slide show.

I'd say why? If you stripped an account down and the user does'nt have the ability to get a virus, why would it need the software. I would rather have the processing power and ram available.

Welcome! Yeah there are tons of options when your looking into a video security system. If you answer the questions below it will be easier to help you out.

Why do you need a video security system?

How many cameras are you looking to get?

Residential or Commercial?

How much money your looking to spend?

I have had problems with both of those browsers, the browser I have had the most luck with is IE 8. Sorry I have never worked with the Eagleeyes DVR so I can't help much.