ipProTech

State workers here in the USA seem to get away with a lot when it comes to their Union.

Been working with a State Agency (DMV) who was interested in putting cameras in lobbies to help with worker safety. When HR was contacted, and I guess even the Attorney General, they said that CCTV cameras in the work place was a negotiation piece for the State Union Workers. So, basically no CCTV until they go to the Union and "Bargain" which they don't want to do at this time

Anyone having issues of putting CCTV in State office buildings where the CCTV cameras could at the same time be in view of people working? Anyone have any info on this, I would much appreciate it.

Anyone aware of any software that does real-time object tracking and control of network cameras? Something compatible with Sony SNCRZ30N?

inetcam is a webcam product. I would not classify it as a professional video surveillance and monitoring product. If you don't mind poor performance, then it may be ok. I didn't find it too appealing.

The issue with Milestone/ONSSI/Selva is that the live video feed is tied to the record framerate. Chances are the system you saw had the record frame rate set low.

on the SNC, the SNCRZ30N doesn't have the same optics as the SNCZ20N. The 20N is better (newer camera) and has better night time viewing. Sony is releasing the SNCZ30N/2 which I believe upgrades the optics to the level in the SNCZ20N. 30N is the Dome, 20N is the box w/zoom. If you get a chance, check out the night vision of the 20N for comparison.

On the IR, I believe in night mode the Sony cameras take away the IR filter, so you should be able to use an IR illuminator. I did test with an IR remote control, Green light was flashing and very visible.

On the Sony Night time image quality, you really do need to tweak the settings. Once you tweak the settings, the camera can be, by far, really, really good. You must change the shutter speed a little and basically do a manual setting. Once you play around with that at night I think you should see a big difference. The auto mode isn't all that impressive.

One utility that will be available soon to help make Sony cameras better at night as well as add other tweaks is IP Pro Cam. www.ipprocam.com

Personally I think a complete Sony solution is your best bet. Sony IP Network Cameras are by far the best on the market offering the best video performance and image quality. Combine with RSM and you can monitor at full motion video and record at a lower rate. Nothing right now compares for the price and feature set. Milestone is also good, but you can't monitor at a high rate and record at a lower rate with Milestone.

New RealShot 3.0 coming out in January, it sounds to be very nice.

Anyone used the Bosch IP Network Cameras and or network servers? Looking to see what people think of hte Bosch IP stuff.

I think people are very right in this thread that point out how many people build PC DVR's and know very little about computers. Heck even I built a desktop PC as a DVR in my day (don't tell anyone). But, if your going to use something like a geoVision (good interface, easy for users to use), use a Workstation or Server based motherboard/case. We build only with Workstation grade systems. SATA with Hardware RAID, SATA, etc. It's not the cards, its the computer builders.

It was easy for us as we come from the IT world and not the security alarm world. Night and day on quality. By the way, a workstation class system is not a fast system, it is quality of the motherboard/case that makes it a Workstation or Server. The systems are made to handle longer lifecycles, heat, usage, etc. Anyone who builds desktop systems are waiting their customers money in my opinion.

Think about stand alone DVR devices (many are just cheap PC's in a DVD looking case). Something to think about anyway.

They look cool, but the Shuttle is simply a pain in the butt to work with. If you ever need to get back into one, you have to basically tear it all down (no matter what you are trying to get to). I built two solutions like this in the early days and would never do it again.

Use only Workstation grade systems. Too many people are still using desktop computers that are not made to be PC DVR's. Desktop systems are not designed to be on 24x7 banging away at the io subsystem. That is what Workstations and Servers are made for. Higher quality parts that last and take the abuse.

Workstations are available in P4 or Xeon that give great performance and offer quality that will make the dfference when it comes to keeping or getting referrals from a customer.

Here is a good article that helps people understand that a dekstop PC is not a workstation or server grade PC.

http://www.intel.com/business/smallbusiness/products/server/rs_checklist.pdf

What is the best camera to use for being able to view a license plate at night. I have a client that lives out in the middl of know where with no light. The have one way in on the road they live and they want to identify license plates that come up the road. Are we talking IR or some other kind? Probably lookin to use a GeoVision card...

Any help would be great.

Anyone use the license plate recogonition with GeoVision? Does it work, what is all involved, board, camera, etc.

Netcam Watcher Pro seems interesting. Only issue I see the display rate...on a 30fps camera is less then 5ofps (Sony). I wish some of these less expensive software packages could reach the performance of ONSSI/Milestone.

Anyone every do a car wash solution? I'm putting a proposal together and just wondering what others may have run accross. Probably your standard GeoVision GV800-16 with day/night low lux cameras.

Just FYI, after having used Py Software ActiveWeb Cam, I can say that the software version 5.0 is pretty buggy and the company gives no support. They don't answer questions and just say thanks for the suggestions, when in fact you ask them a question regarding a feature that doesn't work.

Very disappointing

I've tested iVista6 quite a bit and have determined that for what you get, there is much better out there and for a lot less money. The only thing that I see that is nice is the ability to get to the recorded video clips via the web browser. If you want to only stream one Camera, it has good performance, but as soon as you add a second camera, you get about 1fps if your lucky.

I don't think they quite know what direction they are going yet. They are the OEM software for Panasonic IP Cameras PSS200 and now PSS300 which is the same thing as Ivista6, but only for Panasonic Cameras.

There software would be much improved in the security arena if they developed an ActiveX viewer for InternetExplorer so they could actually push through some good frame rates. Most of these companies jumped on the Java Bandwagon for Internet broadcasting (1-4fps at small size). For real world security, we need good performance on the business LAN (100MB LAN) and the ability to display on Internet, knowing that performance is going to be poor.

iVista6 also doesn't control the frame rate of the camera, just its own viewer. Again, all these software developers should spend a little time looking at the API of the cameras and realize that if they can actually control the frame rate that the camera is delivering images to them, that they control the bandwidth... Actually, Astatech is supposedly working on this type of feature set.

Py Software has an excellent IP Software Management solution. This is the best I have seen yet as far as ease of use as well as great performance for the price. www.pysoft.com The software has broadcast as well as http. Broadcast for good LAN performance and HTTP for Internet. Although the performance on the HTTP was very poor. This is by far one that people should check out. I think you will be amazed at how nice the product is.

Another item to note is they have 3 different file formats to choose from. Their own proprietary format for encryption as well as MPEG and AVI. The nice thing about AVI is that you choose your own compressor. I'm using Microsoft MPEG4 compression and getting great image quality with smaller sizes. This program keeps amazing me.

The only downfall I have seen thus far is their support. So far, they just don't get back to you. Bummer too, because this is great IP Software that takes on the $6000 versions for only $390.

Thanks for the link, I also found a $23 solution at STI who makes covers for alarms...

http://www.sti-usa.com/product.asp?PartNo=STI-9706

I'm looking for an enclosure for a non-standard camera shape. The Panasonic NM-100 is a 4x4x3 wedge and I was hoping to use it in a school hallway, but I need a way to protect the camera. Without paying an arm and a leg, does anyone have ideas for protecting cameras in schools where the ceiling are low?

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=63739&catGroupId=14471&modelNo=WV-NM100&surfModel=WV-NM100

It should be helpful for people to post different IP Management Software that they run across and some comments of what they think about each other. I've played around with my fair share, and always looking for good information. Here is my list with a few comments.

SoftSite32 - looks to be an interesting product, but pricing looks difficult. It appears that you pay per IP Camera and each IP Camera can have a different price. I have enough headaches in the day, I don't need a pricing nightmare...

Sony RealShot - This is the OEM Version of ONSSI NetDVR, but for Sony Only.

iNetCAM - Ivista6 - Affordable and easy to use and setup. Not a great featureset yet for camera options. It does just take what ever stream from the camera and you can't change actual camera settings from the software. It does have bandwidth throttling for the web server side of things. What is really nice it has a web server and so the client viewers don't have to pay licenses for the viewer. Many of the high end software management packages have a higher cost server, plus each viewing station has a licensing fee as well. This package can actually help lower the cost if going after smaller business. Also, if simplicity is what you are looking for, then it is also an easy interface for your customer to use.

Sharkseye - Call me lazy, call me an ex interface designer/software engineer, but this solution is too modularized and cluttered. The integration price doubles just trying to set the software up and figure everyting out. Testing for them must be a nightware with the software architecture that they have. Feature rich if you want to spend the extra time.

d3data - wow, just came accross this and even though I will need one of their SE's walk me through their solution, it looks slick. Not sure on pricing, but it looks like it is feature rich and someone took some time on the interface. I'm really looking forward to learning more about this product.

WebCamSoft - NetCamCenter - This product is interesting from the screen shots and most importantly its pricing. They have step pricing that is dependant upon number of cameras and the pricing allows you to compete against DVR's. The screen shots look pretty good, but they don't have a multi-camera evaluation download. I decided to purchase a two camera version just to evaluate it and it actually didn't break the bank.

AstaTech - Skywire - This is a company to watch with their solution. It appears they really understand security and distributive networks. They've got a lot of bells and whistles, but the interface is rather cluttered. Very techy looking. They currently have a Windows app for the viewer, but the are working on their web browser viewer. Good technology, interface is cluttered. Not what I would call the best interface for the end user. I always say simple is best and hide the details under a button or in a menu. One thing to note is they store in MPEG4 which can really save storage. I'm hoping more and more vendors do the MPEG4 format in the future.

Please let us know what you think of these products and others. My playing around with there are not exhaustive and just that, playing around and looking to see if they are a fit for our integration as well as a good fit for our customers to use.

The ability to have shorter cable runs is a big plus for IP Camera solutions. Also, the ability to easily move the Head-end room in case of a remodel is big as well.

I also don't think you can properly compare the power of a Video Server to DVR's. They of course are very simular, but having a true Server is much more expandable, upgradable and powerful. I'm talking about Server level computers, not Store bought PC's. For large installations, our solutions are all on Server Class systems. This can included Dual Xeon Processors, Large Serial ATA or SCSI drives for Terabytes of storage if needed.

IP Cameras are coming just like VOIP is now the only way to go for telephones. It is a computer world, and it will continue to go that route.

Depending upon the layout and the design, an IP Camera solution can be far better then a analog solution. If you have an open warehouse where you want to install cameras throughout, you can have a one location or a couple of locations to branch out from for your camera solutions. Combine POE and your wiring is simplified. Remember, with IP, you can string network cable in multiple directions supporting multiple endpoints, including your Server and still be on one switched network. Cameras to the switch, that switch to your Video Server, then to the rest of the network. You don't have to throttle anything if the networking design is done correctly.

Add in the ability with the new Zoom or PTZ IP Cameras and the end result is much better then your standard analog DVR system. The cost may be the same, may be more, may be less, but the functionality is likely to be much better. Even if you have a log run to a dark zone somewhere, you can run a fiber run to add support to that area.

If you know TCP/IP networking, I think you can have a much better solution for many applications. You need to know TCP/IP, routing and how the LAYER2 and LAYER3 Ethernet works.

Also, most networks don't have high utalizations on network traffic. If they do, then you throttle back some if you are utalizing part of an open network. But, if your camera is on the same switch as the Video Server, then the rest of the network isn't going to have to see all that traffic.

I think this year we will see a new line of IP Cameras and Video Servers that have improved performance and quality. If you look at most of the current IP Cameras on the market, they were designed over two or three years ago. Most of the Axis and Panasonic IP Cameras are marginal at best. We are just now seeing the 640x480 or larger true 30fps cameras hit the market.

Make sure to check any camera/video spec out that has a * next to the frame rate. Usually means that the frame rate is supported only at the smaller image sizes. I'm also willing to bet that video servers will not only increase in performance this year, but I'm willing to bet increased competition will cause the prices to drop by almost half by years end. Note that I said video server prices by half, not IP Camera prices.

As for performance, I've been playing with my new Sony SNCZ20N camera with 30fps at 640x480 (actually do 736x480). Feel free to play with it at http://4.4.3.171 - choose activeX viewer for best performance. Frame rate in bottom left corner.

Also, Sanyo has a network video server VSP-SV2000 that looks very nice. 640x480 @30fps.

IP vs Analog is something I think many of us struggle sometimes with to get a feel for it application and place. There is no doubt a cost factor difference between IP Camera solutions and analog DVR solutions. For the small business needing just fixed general purpose Indoor Office or Outdoor cameras with easy wiring and nothing fancy mentality, DVR/Analog seems to be hard to beat.

IP Camera solutions though can have great Pro's given the right application. Say large warehouse or lumbermill where you need flexability in Zoom or Pan and Tilt. Especially for large layout buildings or multiple buildings. If they have Eithernet drops, your wiring is very doable and you can create a very nice centralized solution. Large High schools with multiple buildings is a great example. The rub of course is cost and network bandwidth.

You have the more expensive Cameras (close to $1000 for anything of quality / frame rate) and you have the Server Management Software for viewing and storing video from the IP Cameras ($1200 - $6000 +)

I've just finished a design for the largest lumber mill in North Ameraica and the best solution was going with IP Network Cameras. But at the same time I still spec DVR for small businesses. I wish I could just sell IP camera solutions, but it just isn't going to happen.

Back to bandwidth, you do have to design in such a way that you don't swamp the existing network bandwith. This is done by segmenting off as much as possible as well as looking at the Server software that you are using. Some software allow you to throttle the camera speed, others only allow you to throttle the viewers speed. Big difference.

One thing I will do is start a thread on IP Server Software that lists some Pro's and Con's. I think it will be helpful as we all investigate and use different Cameras and Software to build sellable and usable solutions.

Thanks David, Any plans to support Sony IP Cameras? Or the other two Sony IP Cameras?

Thanks,