BrownChiLD

If you connect a DC 12v power supply to the power end on your camera it should work.

If you want to send the power through the Cat5/6 cable instead(and the camera is PoE capable) then 48v power supply is normally used. 12v will not work through the Cat5/6 wires.

OK.

but i have also another dilema

1. If we use a voltage tester on the PoE Splitter side , not a single volt of power is detected

this is the case for both straight through and cross over crimping

2. if we connect the LAN cable direct to LAN port of camera , still no power (coz i assume the camera doesn't have BUILT IN poe support since it has connector cables for DC plug)

see pic

what are we doing wrong here?

I have an IP CAMERA (several different models) with both PoE Support and DC 12v connector.

Using a regular 12v 2A DC Adapter directly connected to it works fine.

I wanted to make use of the PoE Support but i dont have PoE Power Supply

I do have

1. Passive PoE Injector Cables

2. regular 12v DC power adapters for CCTV equipment

Connecting the PoE injector to the PoE Port of the device using a straight through UTP cable, DOESn'T WORK.

Find the spec sheet for your cameras and find the POE class or total power consumption for each unit. Once you have that figure do the math. If it adds up to more than 72 watts then you need a different switch or you need to inject power to a few cameras from a midpsan.

 

 

ok thanks. i think this pretty much answers my main question.. the cameras can only consume combined wattage max of what the switch can take in (72w) . therefore when deciding on a UPS for the system, i will calculate consumption of DVR and Switches only, no need to add a per camera wattage on top of that.

 

tnx

If you do this you will overbuy. Suppose the switch has 7 cameras attached and each is only drawing 4 watts...add say another 5 for the switch and you are at 33...why would you use 72w to compute your needs?

Thanks for that.. but i figured it would be quicker, safer, and less hassle to calculate max load potential of each camera cluster based on max load of switch, rather than calculate or gauge exactly per camera requirements ... If i "overbuy" UPS power for, say, a 72w system, then it's ok because the excess UPS power will just go into more minutes of backup power for the system. So basically it's safer to just provide ups @ max potential load, specially if budget permits it. atleast that's my take on things.

Find the spec sheet for your cameras and find the POE class or total power consumption for each unit. Once you have that figure do the math. If it adds up to more than 72 watts then you need a different switch or you need to inject power to a few cameras from a midpsan.

ok thanks. i think this pretty much answers my main question.. the cameras can only consume combined wattage max of what the switch can take in (72w) . therefore when deciding on a UPS for the system, i will calculate consumption of DVR and Switches only, no need to add a per camera wattage on top of that.

tnx

Yeh that's what confused me. It promises 15.4W power to each PoE device.. so if i have 8 devices maxing out 15.4w (for example) will this PoE switch able to handle it? and how much wattage will it consume in that case? 72W peak consumption? or the actual 123.2W needed to give max power to all poe devices attached?

 

still confused/

It will not be able to support 15.4w on all ports ..it will max out at 72w...this is how these switches are rated..it is rare to need 15.4 on each port..

Ok so when calculating for total watts consumption, i will just refer to max power of switch (72w) and no need to count the number of cameras on and each of the camera rated draw?

Because the combined total wattage draw of all cameras attached on a PoE switch will never exceed the maximum wattage capability of the switch, correct?

Regards

Yeh that's what confused me. It promises 15.4W power to each PoE device.. so if i have 8 devices maxing out 15.4w (for example) will this PoE switch able to handle it? and how much wattage will it consume in that case? 72W peak consumption? or the actual 123.2W needed to give max power to all poe devices attached?

still confused/

Hi Guys

I have a poE switch w/ peak power consumption @ 72w..

It claims to be able to provide 15.4w per port

If i have cameras attached to all ports, consuming that much wattage, that's a total of 123.2W...

so questions:

1) How the heck does that work? When Switch only consumes max 72w from the 220w wall, how can it provide 123w output power?

2) When calculating how much total wattage my surveillance system will consume, do i have to add the camera wattages? or just the PoE Switch total wattage?

EG.

My system has:

8 cameras rated at 5w each (40w total)

8port poe consuming 72w max.

NVR, monitor, etc.. @ 200w.

Total power consumption of the system is 312w??

regards

Digital Watchdog works great on Axis M3007 fisheye cameras. It is free to download and use. You only pay if you want to record at around $70 per camera.

 

They have Linux server software and windoz too.

niec, ill check this out.. but the 70USD / cam is quote steep though

If your camera is a box type, a good sealed box enclosure with rated internal heater and blower assembly will work in a freezer.

I see, yeh we can probably doo this..

Hi Guys,

 

I know there are specialized cameras for freezers and cold storage deployments, but I was wondering if there was a way we can upgrade any standard CCTV/IP cameras to work well in below zero applications?

 

 

Perhaps assemble a sort of heating plate and special casing with fan for the camera? What does the camera need to be freezer ready?

 

Regards

Most cameras can handle well below freezing..the issue you may have is condensation forming...they have cameras with heaters built in..you dont want to mess around making your own..

yeh the condensation is the issues we're getting .. we DO want to mess w/ our own haha. we just need to understand the concept and then DIY power baby

Hi Guys

What's a good PC based NVR / CMS software w/c supports onvif cameras including fisheye types ? (once w/ dewarping would be great)

regards

Hi Guys,

I know there are specialized cameras for freezers and cold storage deployments, but I was wondering if there was a way we can upgrade any standard CCTV/IP cameras to work well in below zero applications?

Perhaps assemble a sort of heating plate and special casing with fan for the camera? What does the camera need to be freezer ready?

Regards

Hi Guys

So i'm into 360 degree fisheye cameras lately and there are 2 main types that i see everywhere:

1) FE camera with On-Board dewarping/split view (where if you connect via IE you can split views and dewarp the image)

2) FE camera without On-Board dewarping/Splitview (this streams full 360 image and relies on NVR to dewarp)

While these are great, i'm looking for FE camera that can do ONBOARD SPLIT VIEW and STREAM EACH VIEWS independently like different channels .. this way i can setup a fisheye camera and use any NVR i choose like Blue Iris etc..

but so far the only camera i've found to be able to do this is Mobotix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbcr1vUdeo

and this is really expensive.. and proprietary i think...

I'm hoping some of you guys can give me alternative brand/models that can do what i need..

really hoping for some answers

hi Guys

I'm looking into these CCTV POS integration solutions and realized they are so expensive , requiring null modems, etc to interface w/ serial ports and all.

So i decided to have a different approach to better meet the budget capability of our local market (3rd world country baby! lol)

I will be targeting POS software that can communicate via TCP/IP only.

I will be requiring the POS Software developers to add a small code in their software to send transaction data (plain text) via HTTP POST to server on local network

Server (this one i will develop) will then receive this data and store in mysql

I pretty much got the above figured out and we're now testing this.

My next problem now is to have a software/CMS that can stream/playback video from ipcams or storage and load my text from database according to timestamp.

So my questions are:

1) Do you guys think this is a good idea/method?

2) Is there a CMS software that can do this already? Most solutions i've seen require you to buy the hardware etc. i just need the software really.

3) Any other pointers for me?

Regards

BC

Hi Guys

One of the main reasons i switched from PC based NVR to Hardware is the P2P features of the NVRS.

I dont know about you guys but in my country most internet connections for home/office are issued private IPs from ISP's router.. (we are not issued PUBLIC IPs and the ISPs do not accept port forward requests)... therefore there is no way you can do remote viewing. The only solution is CLOUD/P2P

Now I am starting to hate the incoming bandwidth limitations on these hardware NVRs, and i feel that these limitations are money making strategies by the NVR companies.

So I am now looking into switching my deployment back to PC NVR if only there is an option/support for P2P connections/handshakes in these software.

I have also looked into "CLOUD" services but they cost money with subscriptions and stuff.. w/c im trying to avoid for my clients.

If there was a way i can host my own p2p server just to handle the handshakes that would be great.

Is there any such solution I'm looking for out there?

Regards

@thewireguys

ah this looks more convenient thanks

@tomcctv

when you say it will work w/ some hik/dahua , did you mean NVR/DVRs? Where paging is done through the NVR/DVRs?

Regards

@ak357

Currently I'm using HikVision cameras and NVR. No there are no mics/speakers on the cameras, and even if there were, I think using the NVR/camera for such purpose is a bit half baked and unreliable (?)

@thewireguys

Wow thanks for the inputs and links. I didn't know there were SIP enabled speakers.. ill go read up on them now..

Any other suggestions/insights are welcome..

PS

what ya'll think about just using a small netbook on each side with a speaker attached to it and just using a sort of PA software, if there is any?

Hi Guys

I have a current project that involves 3 Offices about 5KM apart.

We have successfully setup 5Ghz wireless bridges between the offices and the IP camera system works fine.

Now for Phase 2, the main Office needs to be able to make public announcements to the remote offices through the existing Data network we have established.

While i have experience installing PA systems but never over data network (just audio cables, etc).

So I was wondering if there's a way I can have traditional PA system "ride" on the data network? Perhaps using an Analog-Digital audio card ?

Or is there a PA system that's IP based?

Or how about using IP PABX system instead?

Or is there a software where i can simply have client computers on each office attached to loud speakers?

I'm not that familiar w/ audio stuff so I'm lookin for some ideas and guidance from the community.

Thanks guys

 

 

ahh, i thought so, and di hope so

 

but can you explain a bit of the network logic behind this?

 

im having a hard time understanding how 2 machines are able to establish direct connection when both machines do not have its own PUBLIC IP ADDRESS?

 

Isn't it that in networks, one needs to send data to a publicly accessible IP address or at least have said traffic forwarded to an internal IP address?

 

if camera sends video stream to public IP of the network where the computer is on, but the network is not forwarding the stream properly, how are they able to establish a connection?

 

 

ipcam ---> internet ---> Router w/ Public IP ------(traffic forwarded) ----> PC receiving ip cam footage

 

 

if the Router on public IP does not cooperate, how did it become possible?

Start Googling

 

Reverse Port Forwarding

Peer-to-Peer Communication Across Network

What are P2P communications

UDP pinholeing

Thanks for the google leads! will definitely read up more on said topics

Streams do NOT go through third party servers. That is only used for establishing the connection without the need of port opening, once the connection is established, everything happens the same way as if you were connecting directly through the device.

ahh, i thought so, and di hope so

but can you explain a bit of the network logic behind this?

im having a hard time understanding how 2 machines are able to establish direct connection when both machines do not have its own PUBLIC IP ADDRESS?

Isn't it that in networks, one needs to send data to a publicly accessible IP address or at least have said traffic forwarded to an internal IP address?

if camera sends video stream to public IP of the network where the computer is on, but the network is not forwarding the stream properly, how are they able to establish a connection?

ipcam ---> internet ---> Router w/ Public IP ------(traffic forwarded) ----> PC receiving ip cam footage

if the Router on public IP does not cooperate, how did it become possible?

Hi guys,

I have a few questions about P2P IP cameras.

These cameras are becoming the preferred type cameras now since it's so much easier to get cameras online w/o having to do port forwarding or requiring a public IP etc.

The only thing is that you are dependent on a cloud server.

My understanding of P2P cameras is that it streams (upstream) its video to the 3rd party Cloud Server, where you connect to to see the feed.. therefore there is no need for messing w/ networks to get traffic into the camera itself.. w/c makes sense

So what does this mean, the cloud server is SERVING the video stream constantly? like a relay server?

There are lots of cameras now being sold w/ FREE p2p service (hikvision, isecure, etc) and they offer that FREE FOREVER.

How are they able to maintain this service since bandwdith costs of their server would probably shoot up! Which is another concern what if you have 100 cameras and the Cloud server/company decided to stop the service. you're fcked.

Orr, is it also possible that P2P Cloud servers are just actually doing network "hand shakes" for you and your camera? and that once the handshake is made, you're directly connected to your camera already? therefore

1) These P2P servers do not carry the video stream weight from each camera connected "through it"

2) Even if the p2P servers are on cheap slow internet connection, once your connection is established your gonna get fast refresh rates based on what speeds you and your camera is own (not affected by 3rd party server performance)

The reason I think it's the latter is that, Torrents w/c works on P2P works this way.. and because during my tests, being on the LOCAL network w/ my IP cameras, but connecting to them through P2P , the performance was like that of being connected locally via LAN w/c doesn't make sense if the video is being streamed through the p2p server (data goes round trip)

So how does it really work?

Thanks guys.

First, you will have to splice on the camera end as well and plug into the 12v female plug...You cannot use the cameras POE via ethernet that only works with a IEEE 802.3af power source...

I understand you are trying to save money..but you are WAY better off using hikvision cameras for 85 dollars from aliexpress than using the this technique...

Bottom line you should not be looking at savings from the poe end of things....

Here is another suggestion

http://find-a-poe.com/product/WS-POE-8-48v60w/

Awesome reviews http://www.amazon.com/WS-POE-8-48v60w-passive-Ethernet-Injector-cameras/dp/B0086SQDMM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=cc4m-20&qid=1417237385&sr=8-1&keywords=poe+midspan

using this, you cost for 8 cameras and your cheap switch will be about 6.50 per camera...

you can also buy used poe midspans on ebay for 12 cameras for 25 dollars..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/D-LINK-DWL-P1012-12-PORT-PoE-MIDSPAN-/231190478065?pt=US_Network_Switches&hash=item35d406bcf1

Got a big project? 24 ports for $57 or best offer http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Dsine-6024-24-Port-PoE-Ethernet-Midspan-External-Hub-PD-6024-AC-M-/390948345052?pt=US_Network_Hubs&hash=item5b065654dc

This will be cheaper and better than your proposal...

Well, this IS the type of response/advise i came here for..

I must admit i didn't know about the need to splice both sides. i thought if i could just provide the POWER requirements "as is" and things would work.. so that does change the dynamics for me.

Thanks for the links, went through em, and did the math.. now i just have to find local sources or bring em in in bulk , but the savings are good enough eitherway, so I am definitely going this route at the very least.. so THANKS VERY MUCH. I owe you one Boogieman!! " title="Applause" />

Hi Guys

Thanks for the solid inputs ... but it would help if ya'll can be a bit open minded. we all live in different markets.. and different BUSINESS challenges.

Aside from TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY debates, there is also BUSINESS SENSE in things.. what good is highquality if you don't sell any?

Here's a scenario that is very common here:

5 Installers bid on a Client Project without specifications, just project scope, number of cameras, areas to cover, etc.

1 Quality Installer bids right @ 1300 USD (this is me and a few others who really know what they're doing around here)

4 Installers bid cheap around 1000-1200 USD (usually some chinese businessmen or companies who are just aiming for the lowest quote)

Client goes for either one of the two lowest bids

Cheap Installer gets the project. Deploys it. Done deal.

Client encounters issues, perhaps regret the decision let's say. but bottom line is, IT DOESNT MATTER anymore cause Cheap Installer EARNED. (and may continue to earn due to support calls)

Cheap Installer WINS every gawd damn time.

I do hate selling crap hence i don't want to push cheap china knockoff cameras and what nots, like most of my competitors. (I carry only major and reputable brands like Axis).

Instead im looking for other "innovative" (?) ways to save in costs... So im not being stubborn, we just discussing and exploring... and challenging ideas. so i wish ya'll would have an open mind. not all markets are the same. and unfortunately in our market the markup is soo low that every penny you save helps a lot!

@ Q2U

haha.. well this line:

Me: "Sure...knock yourself out...go right ahead..."

-- you do this? so you can understand I AM at this stage as well. basically telling the customer, OK you WIN, you want cheap fine. ill give you cheap. it's either that or i close the door on opportunity.

Anyway I just wanted to get that out of the way..

To get back into the discussion though ..

1) How much is Labor = very cheap around here. so i rather have my men up and out in the cold night splicing for additional 15 minutes more w/c basically costs me NOTHING lol .. and besides all the extra splicing/soldering work is not on the CAMERA side but rather on the NVR/Power side/room... so.

2) @ Boogieman = ok that is a GREAT idea.. 2pcs 8port /4poe switches setup may be something i can look at. thanks very much! ..my only concern is i guess i have to run 2 backbone UTP cables to the NVR instead of just 1. but that's still gonna come out cheaper than my initial.

I do show a good demo to my clients , and quite good at making them understand the quality i am talking about.while there are some clients who appreciate it, and we do bag those deals easier, MOST will just say "ah I don't need fancy stuff, i just want things that work" .. we can simply stick to our guns/recommendations which is the right way, or at least OFFER a cheaper package that is not necessarily cheaper than competition but at least "CLOSER" to their price..

For example:

our good cameras are 113USD each

+ 21USD cost of POE (for example)

Total @ 134USD/camera

the competitor cameras are 85USD each

+ 21USD cost of POE

Total @ 106USD / camera

That's 28USD difference / camera vs our competition. And that's a significant value.

If i can cut my POE cost down to 5USD through innovation (or bad idea as ya'll put it - but still works!) that would come out as just

12USD difference!

that makes a big difference in ACTUALLY CLOSING THE DEAL and making bank!

and plus I am still serving BETTER quality cameras all together..

@ALL

Thanks for the feedback guys..but hear me out.

Scenario 1:

Cheap 8port switch w/ POE is 146USD

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1008PE-8-Port-Gigabit-802-3at/dp/B00E6LID0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=cc4m-20&qid=1417142583&sr=8-1&keywords=TL-SG1008PE

(the one you guys linked is 8port SW w/ just 4port POE

This setup supports only 7 Cameras (1 port is for the backbone back to the NVR)

So that gives me an 21USD additional cost / camera..

Scenario 2: DIY

1pc 12v adaptor 5a is just 11usd around here.. good to power 8cams

1pc to 8 splitter is 3 USD

1pc 8port desktop switch is 15USD (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&tag=cc4m-20&field-keywords=TL-SF1008D)

The splicing and connecting is basically just a bit of labor (can be ignored)

Total cost: USD 29!

USD 29/ 7 cameras = 4.15USD / camera..

now that's a HUGE difference. heck even if i spend a little more for quality switch i can get the total to under 50USD easy. or under 10usd max cost per camera

Now multiply that to a 32 or 64 camera project...

See what i mean?

With regards to quality of deployment, you need not preach to the choir! I'm one who is really into investing for quality! and I always recommend proper, professional design/plans... but what can you do when your stupid competitors are dropping their prices like there's no tomorrow? You need to find way to cut down your own costs.

I can sacrifice camera quality to bang head w/ price wars, or suggest analog CCTV.. but i rather recommend to my customers a good IP camera system, and just cut corners somewhere else... so long as the thing works and is stable.

Aesthetics on the other hand, customers here are willing to live w/ for every cent of savings they can get (not the way i would live) .. and besides, the aesthetic issue would be hidden in the ceilings or control room, and wont make any difference for the field cameras.

Hi Guys

I was thinking.. for PoE Camera deployments... I'm thinking of manually wiring for PoE..

because:

1) using POE Power injectors adds 20-30USD costs / camera..

2) using Switches w/ PoE ports are even more expensive!

I figured why not just get a 12v DC adapter w/ 5Amps and manually solder 4 cameras to it?

basically

Camera ==> Cat6 UTP ==> regular gigabit switch (cheap)

|= (splice it and extract the pairs assigned to poe power) ==> 12vDC adapter

This saves $$$ .. so we're thinking of starting to go this route .. in-fact we may assemble our own plugs /Rj45 ports etc to make deployment easier ..

Any thoughts? are you guys already doing so to cut costs?

Hi guys

I've been battling w/ issues of noise and all sorts of problems when using centralized power supply, and I'm finally posting for some ideas..

Hardware

700TVL Analog CCTVs over UTP Cat5e or Cat6

Standard video and passive power balun

DVR

Centralized PSU

12v DC Adaptors

=> 0.5A

=> 2A

=> 5A

I have 2 main example scenarios (different situations but same catalyst for issue = centralized power)

SCENARIO 1) LONG RANGE ISSUE

4CH System, 3cameras under 50m length and 1 camera at 130m length

PROBLEM:

If using a centralized POWER SUPPLY UNIT for all cameras, cameras deployed over 120m> gets noise with lines running up the screen (this is both on live view as well as recorded = so no it's not monitor/display issue)

What I've tried (didnt fix the issue):

- different centralized power supply brands/models, etc..

- tried using just 1 camera (the far one)

- tried several different brands of UTP cables

SOLUTION:

For the far camera we use a dedicated 12v DC adaptor (1.5A)

Is this normal? if it's power issue the centralized PSU is actually built for 16-18Ch and i'm using just 4 cams on it.. and even if i use just 1 on it. it's the same problem

SCENARIO 2) Issues when putting 2 or more cameras on the system.

When using 2 or more cameras on one centralized power supply causes "waives" to appear on the display as well as recording..

This is a different issue from #1, I am working w/ a new batch of camers and powersupplies and i can't seem to reproduce issue #1 .. but instead i get this new power related issue w/c i think is worst..because even on short cable runs.. the moment you add 1 more camera to the system this happens.

video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u391h1dui472dym/Video%208.wmv?dl=0

What I've tried (didn't fix the issue)

- try different centralized PSUs..

- tried 3 different utp cables

- try high-cap (2A and 5A) 12v DC Adaptors (as centralized psu) with 1 to 4 spliters..

- tried shorter cable lengths (40m 60m 80m)

SOLUTION

We use a dedicated 12v DC adaptor (0.5A) for EACH camera to resolve the issue. (WTF)

So this has got us scratching our heads because we've seemed to ruled out the following:

1) Centralized PSU has interferences

--> Nope. because even split type 12v adaptors has the exact same results

2) insufficient power?

--> can't be.. even just 2 cameras on the 2A and even 5A power adaptor has issues

3) Cable issue

--> tried different cables.. and if it's the cable, how come using a single dedicated adaptor works fine?

4) DVR?

--> same as #3

5) camera

--> doesn't make sense but we're gona try other analog cameras.

Soo yeh we're stomped. What do you guys think is the problem here?