AVCONSULTING

Below is a copy I took from a discussion on dummy cameras that I found of interest: Question: What are your thoughts on false cameras? We recently had a large retail alarm client who felt fake cams were as much of a deterrent as the real deal (or he was just too cheap to spend the money). We decided we wouldn’t risk our hard-earned reputation to provide a false sense of protection to his employees and customers. Although he found someone else to install the fake equipment for him, he respected our decision and continues to purchase other equipment/services from us. Could you address the legal implications of installing fake cameras? What if there is a real recorder and some real cameras but also fakes? I’ve heard of at least one national chain of stores that only has active cameras in a percentage of their domes and others are just empty shells. +++++++++++++++++ Answer: False cameras offer the similar issues as lawn signs, though the potential for expectation for a secured area is heightened. There are of course all kinds of scenarios that could influence the issue of reliance and liability. More than likely the alarm company would have less exposure than the subscriber. Tenants in a building would naturally have certain expectations when they see cameras. The building owner could provide notice to tenants that cameras are not supervised; not even recorded; perhaps not even real. Tenants would not be able to rely on these installations, and it's not likely that third parties, such as guests could rely on the installations. This is of course a different issue than an owner's responsibility to provide proper security in a building known to have criminal problems. The issue here is reliance on fake cameras in an area that would not necessarily require a real camera or other forms of security. In answer to your question, I would not recommend fake cameras, and I agree with the position you took. I have not researched the issue, but that is my gut feeling. If a subscriber does insist on the fake cameras, and you can't resist the sale, then you should be extra cautious making sure the contract clearly specified the fake cameras. This is even more important than my advice to specify in the contract areas of protection that should be protected and are not because the subscriber doesn't want to spend the money. Here you are putting in equipment that is inoperable to begin with. It won't take a too imaginative subscriber or its insurance company to remember that you are the one who suggested the fake cameras when that is precisely the point of protection breached.

Check the discussion in General Digital section. Quite a few opinions on both types being discussed there.

First, the GEO will handle the motion detection function. As for the camera try and get something with a varifocal lens so you can customize the field of view and if you ever move the camera you will be able to reset the field of view for the new location. Domes are always a good choice and you can get very nice indoor and outdoor domes for fairly low prices. Here is a link as an example on some domes although there are many other places that offer similar cameras. http://www.vitekcctv.com/Sections.asp?SectionID=1002#6

Your motion detection information is also a problem in the U.S. and many DVRs have a way to record both time and event. You can set up the camera to record say 1 frame every 2 seconds to have a continous record of video, but when motion is detected it will jump to 5 fps(or whatever you decide on) in order to get more FPS. This way you can save hard drive space but still prove the DVR was recording during the event time. Sadly most embedded systems don't have this feature, and not even all PC based. It is a very valuable feature. Rory, why don't you move to Turks and Caicos. That seems to be a nice place.

This is considered one of the best backlight compensation cameras on the market. It allows you to see both outdoor and indoor scenes at the same time. I'm not sure of the cost but it definitely isn't one of your cheapo models. http://www.vsscctv.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=453055034

You should never use aluminum braid cable for CCTV. It is designed for cable or antenna applications. The aluminum shield offers very little shielding at the frequencies that CCTV operates at. You should use 95% copper braid RG59U with a solid copper core, or at least a copper clad core.

I would be amazed if that could do 100' in open air much less through walls. Those things are usually low end consumer models and would have a real hard time operating in any commercial type environment.

You might be thinking of Norton Ghost. One DVR company that I used to deal with did a master setup on the first computer then ghosted the whole thing to CD's and from then on all they did was restore the ghosted image to all newly built PC Based DVRs.

I'm only familiar with West Coast guys. I know VSSI is a distributor and they have sold several of the systems. Warren Partin one of their managers is the most familiar with the embedded system. Here is his email and also a link to their website. Warren is at the Corona office. warren@vsscctv.com www.vsscctv.com They are a very large GSS distributor and I'm sure can help you out.

Get your distributor to sell you this on a trial basis. If he doesn't carry Vicon you can get something similar from Pelco. Vicon is the V235GLTA. http://www.vicon-cctv.com/pages/prodindex-frame.html Pelco is a GIT-100

Call these guys up, they are very legit. I'm certain this is the original source for the DVRs. http://www.webgateinc.com/wg_htdocs/english/products/products_webeye_DS1600Q.html

Embedded wins by a large margin as I explained in other messages.

Did you ever solve the remote viewing problem you were having because of the restrictions at your office?

For what you want you might want to consider one of the higher end consumer models since they have features such as image stabilization. The CCTV PTZ's don't have such features and most of them are in the 1k plus range.

I agree with Oz on many if not most of his points regarding the fleixbility and updating ability of a PC Based system over embedded. Personally I like PC Based systems better, I like the ease of setup on most of them through mouse click menus. Most of them have the ability to have unlimited users each with his own password and associated priveleges such as ability to use a PTZ, or individual camera lockout and others. Unfortunately here in the U.S. or at least in the Southwestern area PC Base had such a bad start from so many fly by night garage builders that most dealers have given up on them. I almost lost one of my best dealers because of PC Based failures which cost him business and only now over 1 year later am I slowly getting back in with an embedded system. This is repeated over and over again. I have many dealers who tell me to not even bother coming to them with any PC Based system. The prejudice against PC Based systems here runs high. I think it has a lot to do with the proliferation of these backyard PC DVR makers who slap any board they can find at the cheapest price into the cheapest PC and hope they work long enough to get their money and go out of business. So marketing wise embedded rules out here.

Look at the General Solutions S120 series which is essentially a PC Based unit but using XP embedded. I've heard very good reports on the stability of the system from on of my distributors (I wish I repped the line) and it has the file compaction needed to get very long term recordings. I understand the pricing is very reasonable. http://www.generalsolutions.net/products/S-Class.asp

You can look for something like this which is fairly professional http://www.vitekcctv.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductID=121 or something like this, just make sure it has a video jack on it http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051806186155&skuId=4572359&productCategoryId=cat03009&type=product http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1063670358354&skuId=5864004&productCategoryId=cat03009&type=product

Have a good pair of running shoes or go and get a handheld monitor. If you are going to use an auto iris lens then you will need to focus it either at night or use some type of light reducing glass over the lens such as neutral density filters. You'll have to find a way to attach them to the lens if you are doing it by yourself. Also make sure you have the "C" mount selected on the camera or are using a 5mm focus ring.

What camera are you going to be using? Also are you going to have a handheld monitor?

This sounds like a Kodicom bootleg. Paprotec is the resident Kodicom specialist here so if he doesn't see this and answer it you might want to PM him. For best picture quality first make sure you go into the setup menu and choose the 640x480 option and then choose highest resolution on each camera. Those settings will give you the best picture possible with that system. Diginet remote never gave you full access to all the setup pages. If I remember correctly it gives you access to motion detection screen, camera labeling, and a couple of others but that is it.

http://www.kodicom-usa.com/

The problem we're seeing with Geo and most other PC based units is that they are being sold by small mom and pop guys who build them as cheaply as possible and this leads to many field failures. There are really very few professionally built PC based DVRs around and those are generally much more expensive. Even the Pelco's have had many problems in the past. PC Based systems have gotten a really bad rap in the U.S. and most dealers don't even want to touch them. I have many dealers who tell me up front don't even come to me with a PC based unit. I think now with IP cameras starting to come down in price and go up in quality the days of PC Based DVRs are coming to an end anyway and we'll see embedded for the smaller jobs and network DVRs for the mid to higher end projects.

Put in links to whomever you like. Everyone puts in links to places they like best. You certainly aren't going to put in a link to a place you don't like. Anyway it is the person asking for information who is going to make a final decision, not us. I think Spy Town has some very competitive pricing, although I've never dealt with them so don't know about the customer service. There are lots of good distributors out there. Since I'm on the West Coast I'm partial to VSSI which is a great distributor in this area. Rory likes someone in Florida I think. The main thing is to get some information out to the people who need it so they can make an informed decision. No one has a monopoly here on what can or cannot be listed.

VSSI in Burbank, CA has them listed for $365. You might want to find someone more local since the freight would be a killer. http://www.vsscctv.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=446

You might also have ground loop problems on one of the cameras. All sorts of things can screw up a DVR because they are very sensitive to line problems. Are you using 12vdc cameras and if so how far are they away, what type of power supplies, connectors, cable, etc.