Analogue NTSC cameras quality vs price

[bt101 0]

Hi

 

Let me start be saying I'm cheap!

I am using typical Ebay analogue NTSC dome cameras (fixed 3.6mm lens) that cost between $50 and $80. The video quality is Ok/soso. Does anybody know if the video quality from more expensive cameras is substantially better (and at what price point do you jump to better quality). I see that when you get around $100+, the camera specs say 500TVL or 600TVL. I'm wondering if this is all bogus because the NTSC standard only allows something like 480 lines anyway.

 

I definitely can't read a licence plate with these cameras. To get around this, I grabbed a $50 PC, a $30 webcam, and a couple of $10 USB extenders and made a true 2 megapixel DVR. It's a bit of a clunky solution so I've always been looking for a cheap IP cam. The prices are absurd though.

[Soundy 1]

"TVL" is a bit of a bogus spec - it has SOME meaning, but it's only a small part of the story. Support electronics, signal processing, construction quality, and especially lens quality are all big parts of the equation. Your cheap eBay cameras are generally poorly put together, have little in the way of signal processing, and have lenses with plastic elements, rather than glass, all of which vastly affect the final image quality.

[bt101 0]

Any thoughts on how much to spend to go to the next level of quality? I would hate to spend 2 or 3 times as much and end up with the same quality.

 

Here is the typical camera I have now:

 

 

Things I like about them:

• works at -40C
  
• metal case (I paint it white to match soffit)
  
• small (after white paint, you hardly notice it under the soffit as opposed to ones with a big glass dome)
  
• cheap

 

 

I can't "complain" about the picture quality. I'm just wondering:

• what is the cost to get to the next level
  
• how much better is the picture
  
• any links to an actual recommended model

[rory 0]

We would need the complete specs for that camera first.

As mentioned we hardly go by TVL these days.

[Soundy 1]

Any thoughts on how much to spend to go to the next level of quality? I would hate to spend 2 or 3 times as much and end up with the same quality.

 

Here is the typical camera I have now:

 

[*] works at -40C

[*] metal case (I paint it white to match soffit)

[*] small (after white paint, you hardly notice it under the soffit as opposed to ones with a big glass dome)

[*] cheap

 

 

I can't "complain" about the picture quality. I'm just wondering:

• what is the cost to get to the next level
  
• how much better is the picture
  
• any links to an actual recommended model

Well, assuming you rate "camera quality" from 1 to 10, given the information quoted here, what you have could be a 1 or a 10 or anything in between.

 

The specs and picture above could be just about any camera.

You don't say what you paid for it, so we can't know what the "next level" is.

We can't see how good (or bad) the picture is, so we can't define "better".

Without knowing the price or image quality, we have nothing to base a recommendation on.

[bt101 0]

Sorry... I just see so many of these cameras on Ebay from so many sellers that I just assume they are the "Volkswagen" of cameras. Here's the specs:

 

 

Features:

 

* Image Device: SONY 1/3" CCD Color Sensor

* 3.6mm fixed lens

* TV System: PAL/NTSC

* Horizontal definition: 420 TV Lines

* Validity pixel: PAL:528*582,NTSC:510*492

* Scan frequency: PAL/NTSC: 50Hz/60Hz

* Minimum illumination: 0Lux /F1.2 with IR

* Video Out: 1.0Vp-p,75 Ohm

* AGC: Auto

* Infrared Leds: 24 Leds

* Infrared Range: 20M

* S/N Ratio: Better than 48db

* Minimum illumination: 0LUX

* Automatic conversion on Daytime or night

* Daytime (Color) / Infra-Red Night (B/W)

* Power : DC 12V 500mA

 

* 1 X CCD Dome Camera SONY 1/3"

* 1 X AC/DC 12C Power Adapter

 

They are priced around $35 to $45 US shipped to anywhere in the world. I see the "typical" next step up is the same camera but with 520TVL for an extra $20.

 

I'm wondering if that upgrade does anything or is there some other models/price-points that people recommend.

 

I'd like to stay away from this style which sticks out like a wasp nest under the soffit:

[rory 0]

The one you have is basically what we use for budget jobs, the rock bottom of installs.

Its called a Turret IR Dome.

The one in the picture above this post is an regular dome style (indoor?).

I find the Turrets to be better with IR as they use separate glass so it helps prevent any IR reflection (more like a bullet), compared to the regular style which normally just has a removable rubber ring around the lens just pushed up really close to the dome cover. But the Turrets typically only come in 12VDC, okay for most jobs anyway.

 

The step up for outdoors would be over $100, its not just the TVL that makes the difference.

There are many models inbetween but if you want any kind of noticeable difference, and you want the same type of camera, then it would be a True Day Night camera with a varifocal lens. Ofcourse the difference isnt great like that between a bicycle and a ninja .. but its still better.

 

Ok so example of a step up from what you have now, same Color IR only (no IR Cut filter),

CNB LJL-20S, 3.8mm fixed lens with 600TVL, wont be a huge step up

OR ..

CNB LFM-20VF, 3.8-9.5mm varifocal lens, TDN (ICR)

 

IR bullet is better though if you can get away with a bullet, more IR, easier to adjust, and more waterproof. But double the price of the domes now.

 

Or there are the True Day Night domes without Infrared such as the CNB VCM-24VF or VBM-24VF, not waterproof though, best for under eaves. Ofcourse these are just sample models from one brand, other brands have similar products.

[Soundy 1]

Or there are the True Day Night domes without Infrared such as the CNB VCM-24VF or VBM-24VF, not waterproof though, best for under eaves.

I think you're thinking of the DBM dome - the VxMs are IP66.

[rory 0]

Or there are the True Day Night domes without Infrared such as the CNB VCM-24VF or VBM-24VF, not waterproof though, best for under eaves.

I think you're thinking of the DBM dome - the VxMs are IP66.

They can claim IP66 until the cows come home, but trust me in my experience they are not, at least not the rear of it and definitely not the VBM-24VF. The VCM model holds up much better, perhaps the extra base helps hold back some potential water leaks.

If the camera will be outside in direct access to heavy rain like on a pole or post, IMO best to use a waterproof bullet or box camera housing.

Caulking the crap out of them helps but can be a real PITA when the camera needs to be readjusted or replaced.

The water typically leaks through the rear of the camera and through the screw holes, rubber ring or not. Caulking the screws just causes condensation which then requires dry out time. If one can caulk around the base then that helps, but not always possible.

[Soundy 1]

I have VCM-24VFs mounted outside in direct weather... no problems at all.

 

Guess a lot is in the care you take in mounting them. I certainly don't recommend submersing them.

 

BTW, IP66 means, specifically:

 

"No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact."

and

"Water projected in powerful jets (12.5mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects." - "Test duration: at least 3 minutes; Water volume: 100 litres per minute; Pressure: 100 kN/m² at distance of 3m"

 

Water running down the wire isn't included...

[rory 0]

I have VCM-24VFs mounted outside in direct weather... no problems at all.

 

Guess a lot is in the care you take in mounting them. I certainly don't recommend submersing them.

 

When it rains here, they are as good as submerged, tropical downpours are heavy and hit it from every angle.

[Soundy 1]

When it rains here, they are as good as submerged, tropical downpours are heavy and hit it from every angle.

We have two seasons here: the rainy season, and the monsoon season.

[rory 0]

Anyway like I said the front dome cover may be waterproof, but the rear is not. At least thats my experience with them down here.

And for the record the wall bracket is also not waterproof, that sucker needs to be caulked right up or water leaks through the area that joins the bracket to the dome holder , even with a rubber ring which is installed between them(poor design or QC). Im not complaining though, like they say, we get what we pay for, and caulking is cheap, but bullets are easier to install and walk away.

[rory 0]

BTW, IP66 means, specifically:

 

"No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact."

and

"Water projected in powerful jets (12.5mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects." - "Test duration: at least 3 minutes; Water volume: 100 litres per minute; Pressure: 100 kN/m² at distance of 3m"

 

Water running down the wire isn't included...

 

So based on the similar design between that and the DFL-20s, 3 minutes only of water jets, the DFL-20s would probably hold up just as well, if anything some water may leak through the dome cover as there is no rubber ring there, but the rear is identical. 1 hour of heavy downfall and its all over.

In fact we have a couple DFL-20s outside under eaves since last year and no problems.

Really depends on the location and placement of the camera, thats the bottom line.

But with the bullet cameras, most of them typically always work out of the box at any location, being they are completely water sealed.

[bt101 0]

The one you have is basically what we use for budget jobs, the rock bottom of installs.

Its called a Turret IR Dome.

The one in the picture above this post is an regular dome style (indoor?).

I find the Turrets to be better with IR as they use separate glass so it helps prevent any IR reflection (more like a bullet), compared to the regular style which normally just has a removable rubber ring around the lens just pushed up really close to the dome cover. But the Turrets typically only come in 12VDC, okay for most jobs anyway.

 

The step up for outdoors would be over $100, its not just the TVL that makes the difference.

There are many models inbetween but if you want any kind of noticeable difference, and you want the same type of camera, then it would be a True Day Night camera with a varifocal lens. Ofcourse the difference isnt great like that between a bicycle and a ninja .. but its still better.

 

Ok so example of a step up from what you have now, same Color IR only (no IR Cut filter),

CNB LJL-20S, 3.8mm fixed lens with 600TVL, wont be a huge step up

OR ..

CNB LFM-20VF, 3.8-9.5mm varifocal lens, TDN (ICR)

 

IR bullet is better though if you can get away with a bullet, more IR, easier to adjust, and more waterproof. But double the price of the domes now.

 

Or there are the True Day Night domes without Infrared such as the CNB VCM-24VF or VBM-24VF, not waterproof though, best for under eaves. Of course these are just sample models from one brand, other brands have similar products.

 

Yep, "rock bottom" is my middle name.

I'll try one of those recommendations to see the difference.

I've never had a problem with water as the cameras are far underneath the eaves.

Thanks.