Need a camera

[NTDude 0]

I think this site is great I have used it alot for my research. But I still am puzzed on shat camera a need to get. I have used the Sony SSC-M383 before and am not to pleased with the image.

 

I am looking for a couple of camera suggestion for a friend of mine. I will be using a GE Kalatel DVR (This is what friend has in his other restaurant). We are looking at approx. 6 cameras. They are going into a Martini bar, so the lighting will be fairly low during operating hours. I have looked through the forums and have not really seen anything that jumps out at me for a camera choice. I prefer box but my friend is leaning toward a dome. He also wants a PTZ to go in the center of the bar. The bar is only 18' x 40'.

 

So I guess what I am asking is what you be a good camera for a low lit bar.

Price is aprox, 300-350 per cam. I know the PTZ will be considerably moer.

 

Thanks,

[rory 0]

GE, Bosch, Sanyo, Pano, for Box Cameras. Domes, WizKid, Extreme, Pano, Sanyo.

 

Depends what you want. Bars generallyt require BW cameras as color will not be as clear even in the best low light color camera you can buy. Your price range is less than a Decent day night so you are really left with Color or BW. SInce you are going to be using a decent DVR, best stick with a decent camera one time.

 

Decent domes can cost more than a box camera, but less chance of anyone messing with it.

 

a PTZ sounds like overkill for that size of a location, since you are looking at spending in the $2000+ retail range, plus a controller keyboard.

 

Rory

Edited August 4, 2005 by Guest

[MetzLyov 0]

You obviously have a lot to choose from... so many manufacturers and so many different products...

 

You do not need "high end" camera equipment, rather fairly priced with excellent picture quality. Every manufacturer has a "solution", the question always is the cost vs. quality of the picture vs. warranty... Any camera equipment you buy that comes with less than 3 years warranty should not qualify for a purchase!

 

For a similar setup, we used several type of cameras - i.e. Mini-Domes with 480TVL color resolution and with autoiris varifocal lenses and with 480TVL fixed cameras with autoiris varifocal lenses. The most cost effective equipment so far is from Ganz. Here are some to choose from:

 

1. MiniDome: http://www.cbcamerica.com/cctvprod/ganz/cams/domeCams/DomePDF/zcd6000_cut.pdf

 

2. Fixed camera with wide dynamic range - http://www.cbcamerica.com/cctvprod/ganz/cams/csmount/csm_pdf/CamZC_Y30NH4.pdf

 

3. 3.5-8.0mm autoiris lens: http://www.cbcamerica.com/cctvprod/computar/vari/vari_pdf/TG2Z3514FCS-2.PDF

 

All these components come with full 3 years warranty!

 

Combination of any of these components will run much lower in costs than what you are budgeting...

 

By the way, great choice on GE DVR... Can not get any better and easier to operate...

 

Levon

[VST_Man 1]

PTZ in a bar? Rory is right............OVERKILL. I'd use varifocal low light high res camera's. You can find decent ones (Sony chip) for around $125 if you search.

 

On the PTZ...........convince him to put a picture of a naked Burt Reynolds in the Womens bathroon. Place a fig leaf over the private parts and connect that to a wire, and lights in the bar that flash when moved. You'll save him money and all will get a laugh....well, maybe not his Girlfriend?

[NTDude 0]

Thanks for the info, I think we are going to go with domes. Yes you are right I believe a PTZ is o away and wants to be able to watch the place. I don't blame him, especially if he hires waitresses as fine as are in his restaurant. ':wink:'

[mcs 0]

yes true true if i had a resturant with hawt beeches or a shop near the beech i would do the same LOL

 

but you will find the new bosch xf day/nighter to be a good cam for this situation even in dark its still clear in colour, I agree the Ganz are cost effective but will not go to the extreme for the light levels without loosing quality.. the panasonic cameras are good for hi res crystal clear images and ive seen some that go to near 0 lux using some background lighting to enhance the picture.

 

otherwise just use a colour day nighter with IR leds cheap bullet style ones around, if they last 2 yrs who cares replace them. the fact stated above about the 3yr wty is a sales gimmic ive seen cameras with 12 mths last 5-10 yrs it all comes down to what you wanna spend...

[rory 0]

i just added some OEM IR Bullets to a club today, where we have had BW bullets last 4 years, will let you know how they perform, they have 3 differnt levels .. like amount of IR, worst thing with them from the onset is the lens is 1/4" so its not wide.

 

manu warranty doesnt matter when you buy OEM but at $2000 a camera it makes a difference. Personally i only worry about the warranty of the person i buy it from, and also, if its a vandal dome, peeps like Extreme give you an unbreakable 5 year warranty so with a night club, that IS good. Criminals just broke up a bunch of the bullet cameras the other day .. ;-(

 

From what i can tell Bosch and Samsung Techwin have the same idea, no pixelisation in low light, whether it works ive yet to see.

 

EDIt. they dont come close to the BW cameras by the way, been through this many tims before with every color camera to name, and BW is still the best for a club.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I would have to agree with Rory, B/W is good for clubs, unless you have good money to spend, obviously its hard to tell the cops what colour shirt they were wearing though.

 

if it is a bar, it will be reasonably lit and will stay in good colour if you buy a Pana or Bosch Cam but if your going to not need colour, just buy simple B/W bullets, as for PTZ way overkill, but here is an excellent option that is PTZ and yet a standard Varifocal Dome, and very well priced but not sure who distributes in your area.

 

http://www.koreacctv.com/eng/product/product_view.php?ac_id=70&ai_id=351

[rory 0]

i tried every low light color in this club, no go, i mean it works, but the picture is not clear enough compared to a BW cam, and like me the client is very particular. Depends on the lighting ofcourse, but clubs on this side of the globe, lighting is near non existent, or it is neon type which color cams cant see much at all.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Rory, try a XF Daynight with removable IR Filter and you will need to use less IR Illuminators...seriously

[rory 0]

i really doubt it, for serious IR jobs, but for a club maybe.

 

But for a night club, BW is all you want to use if you need good quality. If its too dark then add some decent IR. I only sell day night cameras with removeable iR Cut Filters anyway.

 

Unless they are giving them away at the candy store ... bosch is still too new a company for me "personally" to dish out $800 of my own money to test a camera with, ...i mean i need pictures .. video .. something (Yes ive used Phillips Dinions and they were "okay"). Same as saying Motoralla makes great cameras, we know the name, but they are new to CCTV so what incentive would it be for one to buy their products while there are others that have been in it from day one, who's products already work? Specs and Reps can say all they want, but without proof ... whats the point. If reps want sales then they would have samples ready to go, so reps need to shut up or put up, other wise their word means very little. Thats why i dont deal with reps no more .. and only the manufacturer, and if it sucks or otherwise, i tell them like it is, and maybe they wil improve it. So far looks like im dealing with the right manufacturers cause they listen to their users.

[mcs 0]

m8 i have no ties to bosch other then cctv_aus works there and I have bought from him from his old employer,

I am TELLING you the XF amazed me man, truly give it a go surely you can get a demo.. I have no ties to bosch and dont receive a commision so there I am an installer in the same state as cctv_aus sells...

 

I have seen it with my own eyes I have been in the industry since 1994 and have a **** load of experience I have quite a number of large cctv sites inc 47 cameras with 3 gv900 dvr's on one site man 1.5km cable and fibre between the buildings, network connected and dsl enabled to remote view...

 

thats just one site...

 

oh did i menation the 3 yr wty bosch do and prog down the coax, bilnix

[MetzLyov 0]

Hey guys,

 

Lets stick with the original question on hand and the price range that this member is looking for....

 

FX series is great, but it is out of his price range. Obviously the dome is an overkill, therefore it is not an option unless this member has money to burn..

 

We have done several restaurants and bars and I understand the limitation and B&W camera equipment will work just fine, except this member wants color camera equipment...

 

I will still go back to my initial assessment...

 

1. Ganz Mini-Domes in the areas that have good lighting conditions

2. Ganz wide dynamic range camera for the areas with poor lighting conditions...

 

It does fall into the price range, it gives him 3 years warranty and the most importantly, IT WORKS!

 

Levon

[rory 0]

Nothing amazes me anymore, I expect it to be great.

 

Back to the subject. Dont think you need a WD camera in a bar, unless its in the car park, or looking from dark area out to a bright area. But domes for sure. And i would really go BW over color any day, for a Bar area. But every bar can have different lighting, so buy 1 of each, BW and Color, and try them out in different areas.

 

Rory

[MetzLyov 0]

Rory, well you are close, but no cigar yet...

 

What do you think lighting conditions are vs. "looking from dark area out to a bright area"?? Basically the same isn't it?

 

With Wide Dynamic Range camera, you can adjust it to be more sensitive in a darker (less light) and brighter (more light) conditions. The beauty for this camera (I think you know which camera that I am referring to) is that it gives you this capability and then it is priced much lower than any comparible equipment out there... It is not a day/night camera, rather is a high res color with WD built in for much more control than your conventional color or even day/nights equipment...

 

As for bright areas, regular hi res 480TVL mini-domes will do...

 

Levon

[cctv_down_under 0]

Rory, I have used wide dynamic cameras many times over in a bar, especially a wine bar or mood bar, you have to be able to see the contrast differences, i can think of a few well lit bars (the bar itself) that cause havoc because the rest of the room is dark.

 

Also lighting changes a hell of a lot in a club (usually), i agree that B/W looks awesome in low light, but why not try to stay in colour if you can, honestly mate if you saw these cams, you might change your view, As the exclusive agent for Extreme's Fantastic IR gear, we barely sell it anymore as it is simply just not needed as much.

 

Anyhow back to the point, obviously a PTZ is way overkill but that Pan Tilt Standard dome I listed at the top of the page is rather cost effective indeed, but I have to agree with Metz, Ganz is good for the price and very low failure rates.

[rory 0]

Well having the client has tested almost every low light color camera on the market, and if an exview wont see low enough light, then no wide dynamic unless it is day night, will. The client I deal with wants crisp quality, and NO color camera can give that in low light.

 

If you want the best quality, then you need a BW. If you can afford it, then buy a Day Night with level adjustments,. which switches to BW in low light and according to the level of light you set it to, any of the big brands. Bosch, Ganz, GE, Pano, Sanyo (actually installing a couple Sanyo Day Nighter Domes there this week, client had them at his home but moved now wants them at the club)

 

On the subject, i have a 420 TVL BW cheap Provideo Bullet in a club on the dance floor with EI and it responds great with the changing light and sees everything, and its been there 5 years now.

 

But personally id never put a box cam in a bar or nightclub environment as anyone can knock it and throw the lens outa whack, and short of that would require alot of lens cleaning. And if you're going to install a housing then may as well install a vandal resistant dome, with wide dynamic if you like. Sorry ive never come across a mood or wine bar in my travels

Edited August 10, 2005 by Guest

[rory 0]

anyway, back to the Geo Software

 

and remember, im not trying to sell anything, im just here to help.

[MetzLyov 0]

Rory, did you ever use a camera with wide dynamic control? If I have to intrepret you answer, seems to me you have not and you can correct me if I am wrong

 

Lighting conditions do matter of course. Price vs. performance vs. reliability vs. availability vs. who is installing and calibrating the camera and vs. delivery schedules are very important in any project. If I am reading the original question correctly, the member is asking a very simple questions and defining the price ranges.

 

Now, we can recommend high end equipment from Extreme (including WizKid), Bosch, Pano and others, but they all out of the price range. B&W will work, but member wants color equipment. There are (2) models of day night cameras that I can recommend: first American Dynamics ADCA470CAFN and second Panasonic WV-CP254H that will conform in this price range including the lenses and both will perform well, but being able to control resolution of the picture, the wide dynamic camera from Ganz will do better and overall the best value and price...

 

Levon

[rory 0]

Yes i have used Wide Dynamic Cameras, but they are not low light like an Exview, and nowhere near a BW quality in low light. But if the bar has lighting like a retail store then it will be fine.

 

In any event, im going to recommend what Im using in the nightcub bar environment now, and these are reasonably priced, BW only, or color at entrances and areas with enough light, and these are for inside the location, not the car park area. Otherwise you can use what levon recommended above, i sell the ganz and pano also, just not vandal resistant, unless for the pano domes. Once again im not trying to sell anything here and im not a "rep"... also extreme CCTV (not wizKId) has a line of wide dynamic cameras, basically all their dome cameras come in those versions also, known as the CX camera, and also MX for Day Night (Not WD). If you need a WD Day Night then Pano all the way.

 

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=3

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=12

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=17

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=27

http://www.extremecctv.com/news/PDF/ACF1C3.pdf

http://www.extremecctv.com/products/index.cfm?img=66

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=9