Mobotix m14 vs Brickcom GOB 130

[RustyJL 0]

I am thinking about one of these for work. I do realise they are like chalk and cheese. It will be used to capture behaviour and number plates in built up areas. Most areas will be street lit at night, however it won't be overly bright. I like the idea of day night lenses but am not sure on codec available, specifically if h264 is an option. Also is it possible to hook it up to a 3g router (via cat5) to view live video, albeit at reduced fps and resolution? The other contender may be the brickcom gob 130 but am worried that number plate recognition will be sub par. Thoughts?

On the Mobotix, how close does someone/thing have to get before the pir begins recording? Is it possible to set either to start recording based on motion?

[buellwinkle 0]

Mobotix doesn't yet make an M14, they make a D14 or an M12. Mobotix has properties that makes it unique, the built in NVR software, no moving parts, dedicated day and night sensors. I have yet to work with any color camera that does as well at night as the Mobotix B&W night sensor. The image quality from Mobotix is great, best I've ever used both day and night. They do offer h.264 on their newer cameras, but it's probably best to stick with their compression that has better image quality on stop motion single frames. If their cameras fit the bill and their cost is justified, and many times it is as you don't need a central NVR, then this is the way to go.

 

Brickcom makes a great camera but with it's own set of unique features. For example, varifocal lens, something that Mobotix does not offer as well as WiFi and 4G wireless connectivity. If you need features that Mobotix does not provide, then Brickcom cameras are well made, have very good image quality and they provide free NVR software.

 

I have reviews on the cameras you are looking at on my blog.

[RustyJL 0]

Mobotix doesn't yet make an M14, they make a D14 or an M12. Mobotix has properties that makes it unique, the built in NVR software, no moving parts, dedicated day and night sensors. I have yet to work with any color camera that does as well at night as the Mobotix B&W night sensor. The image quality from Mobotix is great, best I've ever used both day and night. They do offer h.264 on their newer cameras, but it's probably best to stick with their compression that has better image quality on stop motion single frames. If their cameras fit the bill and their cost is justified, and many times it is as you don't need a central NVR, then this is the way to go.

 

Brickcom makes a great camera but with it's own set of unique features. For example, varifocal lens, something that Mobotix does not offer as well as WiFi and 4G wireless connectivity. If you need features that Mobotix does not provide, then Brickcom cameras are well made, have very good image quality and they provide free NVR software.

 

I have reviews on the cameras you are looking at on my blog.

 

 

Thanks mate. Can you tell me how well the Brickcom is able to pick up number plates of vehicles at night? Also, given that we know who the majority people are that we are watching, would we be able to make out facial features past say 75m? The reason i am considering these two cameras is for their built in NVR. They would likely be used mounted to a vehicle to conduct discreet surveillance. Also, are you able to simply remove the SDHC card and put in a laptop computer to view and copy the footage or is there an interface?

I did read your reviews on both products which has sparked my interest.

[buellwinkle 0]

Brickcom does not have a built in NVR, all it has is the ability to store video via ftp or a mount point, but no way to search for it or manage it in anyway. The closest I found to Mobotix is Axis products that support Edge recording. It stores the video much in the same way Brickcom does, but they give you an app called Camera Companion that glues it all together to allow multi-camera viewing and searching for recorded events.

 

Not all cameras can pickup license plates as they are typically highly reflective and sometimes the built in IR lights will reflect off the plate and it will just look like a white box. This is the reason for specialized, high contrast B&W cameras to do LPR. The Mobotix B&W sensor is pretty high contrast and will work. To make out facial features at 75M, that would take either a lot of resolution or a telephoto lens, probably the 135mm on the Mobotix and even then I'm not sure as 75M is pretty far away. We are putting in a 135mm lens, the most telephoto that Mobotix offers to cover an area that's maybe 100' away. You may not be able to use Mobotix for this and want to consider an Avigilon, something with 16 or 29MP resolution or a decent 1080P PTZ camera like an Axis Q60 as those will easily read a plate 75m away or stick with Mobotix but get a heck of a lot closer than 75m.

 

What I do to find out what I need is get a digital camera, take pictures at various focal lengths with a test subject, verify the lens focal length in the EXIF metadata in the photo and then set a tool like photoshop to crop to the exact resolution of the surveillance camera, for example, 2048x 1536 for the Mobotix 3MP sensor. Then you can see if you have enough resolution. For example, I have a 4:3 camera, has a 2X lens magnification factor or my DSLR which has a 1.5 lens magnification factor, so 43mm would be a 65mm lens. So I take the picture say at 32mm to simulate a Mobotix 65mm lens. I then use the Photoshop crop tool set at 2048 pixel width and 1536 pixel height. What's left is pretty close to what I'll see with Mobotix 3MP with the 65mm lens. You can also experiment at different resolutions like 5MP and see if that gets you there.

 

A camera that I recently did a review on my blog on, the ACTi KCM-5611 may do what you want in terms of getting in close for a lower price. It has an 18X zoom, WDR, 1080P resolution and you can set patrols like a PTZ but no PT, just Z. It can FTP video, but again, no NVR solution in the camera, but they do provide a decent PC based NVR solution for free.

 

Lastly, consider the lighting you need. To cover 75mm, you need a serious IR light or a series of lights at key spots you want to cover. Nothing I know of with a built in illuminator will cover anything close to 75m.

[RustyJL 0]

Brickcom does not have a built in NVR, all it has is the ability to store video via ftp or a mount point, but no way to search for it or manage it in anyway. The closest I found to Mobotix is Axis products that support Edge recording. It stores the video much in the same way Brickcom does, but they give you an app called Camera Companion that glues it all together to allow multi-camera viewing and searching for recorded events.

 

Not all cameras can pickup license plates as they are typically highly reflective and sometimes the built in IR lights will reflect off the plate and it will just look like a white box. This is the reason for specialized, high contrast B&W cameras to do LPR. The Mobotix B&W sensor is pretty high contrast and will work. To make out facial features at 75M, that would take either a lot of resolution or a telephoto lens, probably the 135mm on the Mobotix and even then I'm not sure as 75M is pretty far away. We are putting in a 135mm lens, the most telephoto that Mobotix offers to cover an area that's maybe 100' away. You may not be able to use Mobotix for this and want to consider an Avigilon, something with 16 or 29MP resolution or a decent 1080P PTZ camera like an Axis Q60 as those will easily read a plate 75m away or stick with Mobotix but get a heck of a lot closer than 75m.

 

What I do to find out what I need is get a digital camera, take pictures at various focal lengths with a test subject, verify the lens focal length in the EXIF metadata in the photo and then set a tool like photoshop to crop to the exact resolution of the surveillance camera, for example, 2048x 1536 for the Mobotix 3MP sensor. Then you can see if you have enough resolution. For example, I have a 4:3 camera, has a 2X lens magnification factor or my DSLR which has a 1.5 lens magnification factor, so 43mm would be a 65mm lens. So I take the picture say at 32mm to simulate a Mobotix 65mm lens. I then use the Photoshop crop tool set at 2048 pixel width and 1536 pixel height. What's left is pretty close to what I'll see with Mobotix 3MP with the 65mm lens. You can also experiment at different resolutions like 5MP and see if that gets you there.

 

A camera that I recently did a review on my blog on, the ACTi KCM-5611 may do what you want in terms of getting in close for a lower price. It has an 18X zoom, WDR, 1080P resolution and you can set patrols like a PTZ but no PT, just Z. It can FTP video, but again, no NVR solution in the camera, but they do provide a decent PC based NVR solution for free.

 

Lastly, consider the lighting you need. To cover 75mm, you need a serious IR light or a series of lights at key spots you want to cover. Nothing I know of with a built in illuminator will cover anything close to 75m.

 

Ok thanks for clarifying that. Please excuse my ignorance, but how do you watch the recording made by the Brickcom? Does it have to be connected to a PC and then use the included NVR software to review the footage?

That Acti actually looks better for what i have in mind. Only drawbacks at this stage are the larger size, no local storage and it is not wireless or 3g. Would you be able to plug it directly into a 3g router to control it remotely and also stream footage?

Also the figure of 75m would be a long distance shot in my intended application. Being able to recognise faces out to say 20m during daytime is pretty much all i need most of the time and the ability to read number plates at night at a similar distance. All of this will need to be able to be done remotely via wireless connection.

Thanks for your input and time, i really appreciate it " title="Applause" />

[buellwinkle 0]

If you have the Brickcom camera record to a NAS mount point, you have to connect to that mount point say with a Mac and use Finder or a PC and use Windows explorer to find the file you want and then use the media player to play the video. Don't remember how you play from the SD card, but I think it's through the meda player on your PC. If you use the free NVR software from Brickcom, it runs on a PC and it records video, not the camera.

 

I don't understand your 3G or wireless requirement. You want to connect the camera via 3g wirelessly, or view the camera via 3g wirelessly?

 

If you don't have any internet access and you want the camera connected to a 3g/4g network, then you need a camera that can take a SIM card, and the only one I tested that does that at this time is Brickcom, the WOB130Np would work. Just need power, plug it in and it's conneced via 3g/4g like AT&T or T-Mobile. Then you can configure it with ddns, access it from where ever you are. Ideal for construction sites and such where there's no internet access available.

 

Or you if you can connect the camera to the internet where you are at, you can configure the router to allow you remote access from anywhere on the internet and your connection on your PC to the internet can be 3G, WIFi, hard wired, doesn't matter.

 

To capture a plate or face at 20M still requires a telephoto lens, maybe one with a 25 degree viewing angle.

[RustyJL 0]

 

I don't understand your 3G or wireless requirement. You want to connect the camera via 3g wirelessly, or view the camera via 3g wirelessly?

[snip]

Or you if you can connect the camera to the internet where you are at, you can configure the router to allow you remote access from anywhere on the internet and your connection on your PC to the internet can be 3G, WIFi, hard wired, doesn't matter.

[snip]

To capture a plate or face at 20M still requires a telephoto lens, maybe one with a 25 degree viewing angle.

 

Sorry I should have been more specific in what I am striving for. I have been typing my replies on the Iphone, makes for a tedious time. Back on the laptop now!

 

My idea is for mobile surveillance of various locations. I will be able to mount the camera in/on a vehicle and can probably get within 20m of the target without being detected. I want the motion activated feature to send an instant alert (like an email) when there is activity at the target location. Therefore, the camera has to be connected to the internet wirelessly via a 3G router (this one specifically, using the RJ45 connectors at the back - http://www.cnet.com.au/bigpond-elite-wireless-broadband-network-gateway-339302145.htm#image1).

 

The camera can record the 1080p footage directly to a laptop located in the vehicle. Along with motion activation, I would also like the ability to access the camera at will while it remains at the target location - the H264 streaming should mean that I can do this without chewing up massive amounts of bandwidth. Further, in the event that the vehicle or camera were to be damaged/stolen, I would want to set it up so that the H264 could stream continously to a server to record everything.

 

The Acti sounds like a better bet, although with a larger form factor, than the Brickcom for my intended application.

[buellwinkle 0]

I see, so you don't want a camera with 3/4G built in as you'll use a 3/4G router, makes sense. The ACTi and Brickcom are about the same length, just the ACTi is fatter but consider this, the ACTi is 1080P or 2MP and 18X zoom with autofocus. The Brickcom is 1.3MP, about the same price and a varifocal lens with a remote focus, not autofocus, meaning you set the focus as best as it can, and it's very slow at doing this but it gets you close, then you spend a few minutes finding the perfect focus by tapping on a + and - buttons. Then if you zoom in or out, I believe about 3-4X, you have to refocus as it's not a true zoom, it's a varifocal lens that's remotely controlled. Also, there's no patrol feature, you have to change focal length manually live. So for what you want to do, you want autofocus as you'll change camera position often and manually focusing in the car can't be fun. The Brickcom's focusing system is designed for set once and done, not for constant usage.

 

Also, from inside a car you won't be able to use the IR illuminators as windshield will reflect the light back into the car. Given that, the ACTi beats the Brickcom in low light. What you can do is get a 12V IR light, mount it maybe behind the grill of the car and that could be your lighting, and send the camera a command to turn IR off. Then you can use the camera behind a window.

 

Both cameras can FTP video motion events to a remote site, maybe a NAS at your home location. The Brickcom writes an AVI file that can be played directly, the ACTi write a file in what they call raw format, must be converted to be played by any media player or can be played with the ACTi player. There's 2 schools of thought on this. Most camera companies write the video in a propriatory format because it can't be changed, so the courts consider it original video from an evidence standpoint. AVI files can be edited and provide immediate access, but the courts could consider the video as having the potential of being compromised. Same with Mobotix, they write in a propriatory format for the same reason and you must use a tool to put it in a standard format.

[RustyJL 0]

Ok good stuff. In regards to storing the 1080 HD footage direct from the camera, does this have to be done using a NAS connected directly the the IP camera? I would like to minimise the amount of assets in the one location. Also, is it possible to set it up so that the camera is connected to a wireless router that sends the HD data to a nearby LAN. This LAN could be connected to the internet for remotely controlling the camera. Sorry for such basic questions... I suppose we all have to start somewhere!

 

As i understand it i will need... IP camera hooked up to the router either wireless or 3g, then a NAS (or can i use any old harddrive?) at home which is connected to either the LAN directly linked to the camera or internet. Can you make recommendations as to this other required hardward?

 

Thanks

[buellwinkle 0]

The camera can write to a NAS located anywhere in the world as long as it's accessible to the internet. There's several companies that sell NAS for cheap, Western Digital, Buffalo, Netgear ReadyNAS. I personally use the WD MyBook Live and they cost under $200 for a TB.