HD-SDI Installation Nightmare

[Mordavia 0]

Hello,

 

First post here and I am hoping others can help us out.

 

We are a small family company out of the Massachusetts area and have had a major problem with an HD over coax project.

 

The equipment we are using:

- 2 Speco analog cameras

- 2 Digital Watchdog "DWC-HV421TIR" 2.1 megapixel HD-SDI cameras

- 1 12v 8fused altronix power supply

- 1 Everfocus DVR "EDR-HD-4H4"

 

The Problem:

Everytime we install a digital watchdog camera (located at the driveway) into the DVR at the site it instantly disables the test monitor output and the HD-SDI output.

 

Our Troubleshooting:

We have replaced the camera 5 times! (same model)

We returned and replaced the DVR (same model)

We upgraded and replaced the power supply

We check continutity and power output of cabling

We checked continuity and reterminated BNCs of video cable (RG59)

Put the working digital watchdog camera on all HD DVR ports and they work

 

Whats working:

Both analog cameras are working

One of the digital watchdog cameras are working (side of building)

Non working digital watchdog camera shows ok green LED and IRs light up when covered

power test ok

BNC ports test ok

We had the camera plugged into the DVR at our office and it worked for three days. Once we install it at the site the video outputs of the camera go black.

 

the only thing different at the site is the additional 2 analog cameras and one other digital watchdig camera that is the same model.

The coax is professional siemese cable, i forget what brand or specs, but it is RG59 CL2 rated.

 

Any ideas?

 

Has anyone heard of anything like this?

 

Both Digital Watchdog and Everfocus have no advice.

 

Thanks you

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

i would suspect a wiring fault of some sort, possibly a ground issue or ground loop, possibly interference on that one line, possibly even a damaged sheath on the one line that's allowing the shield to touch something it shouldn't.

 

have you tried connecting the "non-working" camera directly to the dvr with a short cable?

 

try connecting the camera to its run without actually mounting it to anything (especially if it mounts to metal)?

 

how about connecting an analog camera to that run and switching it to an analog input, see if the same problem arises?

[Mordavia 0]

We have connected a working analog camera to the run and it works perfect.

 

We connected the non working HD-SDI camera to the DVR with a short cable after it malfunctions on the field and it still does not output video, but it did at the office before installation.......same thing, all five times

 

I am planning on running new cable, we did test for continuity and the inner copper is not touching the copper braids until we force it to. We visually inspected the wire and it seems ok, BUT there is about five feet where a Comcast technician was working that we can’t get to unless we take the ceiling tile down (it's very tightly installed) we are going to do that next time we go back.

 

Is it possible the Comcast technician installed a splitter on our RG59 thinking it was TV? Would an analog camera work through a splitter and would out continuity tests work through a splitter?

[Mordavia 0]

oh, and its mounted to the on-wall exterior mount that is manufactured by Digital Watchdog for that camera. "DWC-V4WM"

[thewireguys 3]

How long is the cable used with the camera your having uses with?

[Mordavia 0]

The cable is a home run, about 30ft. 10 feet of which i have not visually inspected.

[vin2install 0]

Try using a HDCCTV compliant camera. The everfocus DVR is HDCCTV compliant but the Digital Watchdog is HD-SDI.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

Is it possible the Comcast technician installed a splitter on our RG59 thinking it was TV? Would an analog camera work through a splitter and would out continuity tests work through a splitter?

never tried it... but it wouldn't surprise me that an analog camera would work through a catv splitter, and i would definitely expect sdi wouldn't, although i wouldn't expect to see the strange symptoms you're getting. either way, give your average catv tech, such a thing is entirely possible - you would still see proper continuity end-to-end.

 

too bad nobody has actually come up with an sdi cable certifier (or at least, not one that doesn't cost as much as a car) - even the hdcctv alliance's "official" recommendation for testing cable runs it to connect a camera and see if it works.

[justincameras 0]

I

 

too bad nobody has actually come up with an sdi cable certifier (or at least, not one that doesn't cost as much as a car) - even the hdcctv alliance's "official" recommendation for testing cable runs it to connect a camera and see if it works.

 

FM Systems does.

 

http://www.fmsystems-inc.com/cw/Details.cfm?ProdID=257&category=16

[Mordavia 0]

So we ran new cabling. And it worked.

 

I pulled the old cabling out of the ceiling/walls and the only thing I could see was a twist in the coax. Although this wire worked for regular analog cameras it did not work with the digital watchdog camera.

 

Do all HD-SDI cameras disable their video outputs if the coax is not perfect?

 

If HD over coax installations require perfect coax cabling I think we will avoid using this technology in the future. Who know what condition previously ran wire might be in.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

too bad nobody has actually come up with an sdi cable certifier (or at least, not one that doesn't cost as much as a car) - even the hdcctv alliance's "official" recommendation for testing cable runs it to connect a camera and see if it works.

 

FM Systems does.

 

http://www.fmsystems-inc.com/cw/Details.cfm?ProdID=257&category=16

yeah, and i could buy a car for what it costs.

 

Do all HD-SDI cameras disable their video outputs if the coax is not perfect?

i wouldn't think so - i would just expect the signal is too degraded to be decoded properly by the dvr.

 

If HD over coax installations require perfect coax cabling I think we will avoid using this technology in the future. Who know what condition previously ran wire might be in.

yup - despite all the marketing claims of this being an easy drop-in retrofit for analog systems, the fact is, the cable *and connectors* do need to be good quality, and in good condition. as you've found, even slight problems that wouldn't show up at all on analog, can disrupt the hd signal.

 

on the other hand, i bet ip-over-coax adapters would have worked fine on that cable - i've used them on some pretty iffy wire with no problems.

[survtech 0]

SDo all HD-SDI cameras disable their video outputs if the coax is not perfect?

The camera's output is not disabled, just the signal won't pass.

[Mordavia 0]

The camera DID disable the video outputs.

 

The HD-SDI camera worked when the camera was connected directly to the DVR using our test cable.

 

The cameras test and HD-SDI outputs went black when connected to the previously installed wiring.

 

The camera never came back up when it was reconnected to the DVR using the test cable.

 

This was the biggest problem of the install, once the camera video output stopped, our troubleshooting was pointless.

 

And it was not fried, the power cabling was never to blame, just a small twist in the coax.

[survtech 0]

So a power recycle didn't bring the video back up? The camera is still unuseable?

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

So a power recycle didn't bring the video back up? The camera is still unuseable?

read back a few posts:

 

So we ran new cabling. And it worked.

 

I pulled the old cabling out of the ceiling/walls and the only thing I could see was a twist in the coax. Although this wire worked for regular analog cameras it did not work with the digital watchdog camera.

 

Do all HD-SDI cameras disable their video outputs if the coax is not perfect?

 

If HD over coax installations require perfect coax cabling I think we will avoid using this technology in the future. Who know what condition previously ran wire might be in.

[survtech 0]

So a power recycle didn't bring the video back up? The camera is still unuseable?

read back a few posts:

 

So we ran new cabling. And it worked.

 

I pulled the old cabling out of the ceiling/walls and the only thing I could see was a twist in the coax. Although this wire worked for regular analog cameras it did not work with the digital watchdog camera.

 

Do all HD-SDI cameras disable their video outputs if the coax is not perfect?

 

If HD over coax installations require perfect coax cabling I think we will avoid using this technology in the future. Who know what condition previously ran wire might be in.

That doesn't answer my question, based on the OP's following statement:

"The camera never came back up when it was reconnected to the DVR using the test cable."

[Mordavia 0]

Yes we power cycled.

 

And connected directly to the camera with a test monitor and connected the camera to two other HD over coax DVRS.

 

The camera test and HD-SDI video outputs went black after connecting it to the twisted coax wire. And they never came back up.

 

The inability of the camera to come back stopped us dead in our tracks every time.

 

And we purchased this camera multiple times, and every time the same thing happend.

 

We did not think to replace the wire at first because analog cameras passed through, and the cabling tested ok for continuity.

 

Once the digital watchdog camera went black our troubleshooting was pointless.

 

Maybe it was this particular model, but I will be too paranoid to ever use an HD-SDI camera again.

 

I was lucky to have a patient client for this.