Security Camera for viewing lake from Lakehouse

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback on this.

I am located in the US and looking to buy a security camera for my parents lakehouse. The lakehouse is about 200ft above the lake, set back about 400ft from the lake. While my parents are there, my dad enjoys watching the boaters go by from the front porch using a spotting scope. The problem is, he would like to watch the lake, even when he's not there. Also, the lake freezes in the winter and in the spring, large chunks of ice float up and down the lake and he would like to monitor this to avoid collision with his dock.

I have done some research and see the majority of people are recommending Dahua brand cameras. I found some videos for the SD59230S-HN and really like the quality of the video and the zoom. I am open to other options however, my budget is to keep everything less than $1000 US.

Here are some of the requirements:

mounted outdoors

less than $1000 for all equipment

PTZ

at least 0-90 degrees, 360 degrees

good video quality during the day

high optical zoom (30+?)

IR

long range at night

Some questions:

Are there alternatives to the Dahua that may be cheaper, say around the $500 range with the similar features to the SD59230S-HN?

I've found the camera on woodwrightsurveilance for $900, but then I think I found it for $650 on AliExpress. Is this really the same camera?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Mp-Full-HD-12x-30x-dahua-Network-IR-PTZ-Dome-Camera-SD59230S-HN/1879699652.html

Besides the camera, what else will I need to be able to control the camera remotely, outside of the local network?

I plan on using the supplied power supply and running power to the camera. I also plan on running RJ-45 to it as well. Is there anything else I need to run to the camera?

Here is a spring time photo of the view he would be looking at

Don't think you'll see much at night, I believe water doesn't reflect IR, unless people riding in boats at night or you see the ice at night. You will get good night pictures from the trees and land.

Day time will look nice too.

be careful how much extra they charge you, and PTZ camera are more prone to failure than others because of movement, so you should have a good warranty on it. And in your environment the camera might freeze due to cold and lake moisture. The one from wrightwood is reasonably priced for a US seller, probably one of the cheapest out there.

Looks like neither listing includes any wall mount brackets, it might be another $50-60 extra.

Mind if I ask what does your dad do for a living? I would like to retire in a lake house as well lol

You need internet to control the camera outside of the network, also port forwarding to your camera, if you need recording, put an SD card inside the camera or use a software to record to a PC (or use standalone NVR (network video recorder))

If running cables is an issue, look into a PTZ that can support POE+, so you only have to run a Cat5e to it and it'll do power/control/video in one cable.

If your budget is around $500, you can get a 1.3 MP with x 20 optical zoom and no IR IP PTZ camera. But IR models are more expensive. For specs similar to the one you showed, its at least $800 and up to $1800 from US sellers.

Thanks for the reply milkisbad.

Don't think you'll see much at night, I believe water doesn't reflect IR, unless people riding in boats at night or you see the ice at night. You will get good night pictures from the trees and land.

I should have clarified. The night vision would be to monitor the 300ft driveway that winds up to the house. And maybe be able to see the road, which is about 150ft away. I read this is within the range of IR for this camera, but nearing its limit.

be careful how much extra they charge you, and PTZ camera are more prone to failure than others because of movement, so you should have a good warranty on it. And in your environment the camera might freeze due to cold and lake moisture. The one from wrightwood is reasonably priced for a US seller, probably one of the cheapest out there.

I hadn't thought of this. How often would this need to be repaired? If it's belts that would need repair, my dad would probably enjoy fixing that, but if it's the camera or lens, that could be a problem. The environment definitely gets cold, so is a PTZ a bad idea? Or should it be taken in for the winter? I was hoping it would work year round and that we wouldn't have to do any maintenance for the winter months.

Looks like neither listing includes any wall mount brackets, it might be another $50-60 extra.

I believe the one from wrightwood comes with one. I looked at the pdf of what's included and there is a section that shows the accessories which were the mount bracket and power cord. There was also an additional accessories section, so I assumed that the accessories section is what it came with.

Mind if I ask what does your dad do for a living? I would like to retire in a lake house as well lol

Parents are both in upper management in successful companies. I need to figure out how they got there so I can do the same!

You need internet to control the camera outside of the network, also port forwarding to your camera, if you need recording, put an SD card inside the camera or use a software to record to a PC (or use standalone NVR (network video recorder))

They do have internet, and it's ~15Mbps down, ~1Mbps up. Do you think the upload rate is enough to support streaming remotely at 1080p? I think the SD card would be best for recording. Is it possible to access the video stored on the card remotely? Does the card need to be removed to view the videos stored on it?

If running cables is an issue, look into a PTZ that can support POE+, so you only have to run a Cat5e to it and it'll do power/control/video in one cable.

Ok, so I've looked into POE and POE+. I think this is a definite possibility and am looking to for a POE+ injector. Any suggestions?

If your budget is around $500, you can get a 1.3 MP with x 20 optical zoom and no IR IP PTZ camera. But IR models are more expensive. For specs similar to the one you showed, its at least $800 and up to $1800 from US sellers.

I really like the 2MP and 30x optical zoom. Do you know of any that don't have IR? The IR is really not needed and would be a cool bell & whistle.

Again, thanks for your reply!

You can save some money and get the SD42212SN-HN Mini PTZ which is 12x for $499 at the place you mentioned earlier, runs on PoE+ (injector is $15), is much smaller and less obvious and having the IR on the lake would be a waste, trust me, we have a place that's lakefront and I keep an eye on my boat about 200-300' away now with a mini-bullet with a 25mm lens and it gives me pretty good detail, even if I could zoom in more, the field of view would be too narrow and I would miss the water skiers. Get up to 61mm (12X), and boats 400' away traveling at say 30mph will pass by your field of view pretty quick.

Also, what happens with 30x zoom over water is the mist, haze distorts the image, so not sure you'll actually get more detail at 30x than at 12x. Yes, objects will be twice the size, but not as sharp.

You can save some money and get the SD42212SN-HN Mini PTZ which is 12x for $499 at the place you mentioned earlier, runs on PoE+ (injector is $15), is much smaller and less obvious and having the IR on the lake would be a waste, trust me, we have a place that's lakefront and I keep an eye on my boat about 200-300' away now with a mini-bullet with a 25mm lens and it gives me pretty good detail, even if I could zoom in more, the field of view would be too narrow and I would miss the water skiers. Get up to 61mm (12X), and boats 400' away traveling at say 30mph will pass by your field of view pretty quick.

 

Also, what happens with 30x zoom over water is the mist, haze distorts the image, so not sure you'll actually get more detail at 30x than at 12x. Yes, objects will be twice the size, but not as sharp.

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of the mist/haze distorting the image, but I think I prefer the 30x due to the distance we are from the lake. I would say we are about 350ft diagonally downward to the edge of the water. Then the lake is about 2500ft wide, so I think the 30x would be better.

I am wondering though, what is the tilt range on the SD42212SN-HN that you mentioned? I checked several sites and wasn't able to find it. Don't go out of you way to find this info, just curious.

You might consider adding a few extra IR lights for the periphery of your widest image. The IR lights on most of the PTZ's in that price range are basically a spot light, so the center 1/3 of your image will look fantastic, but the other 2/3 will be pretty dark. I have one of these mounted on the front of my office and it is excellent. This is a pretty decent price too, I know it is just outside your budget but it is a quality unit that is worth considering.

http://www.security360cameras.com/ltptzip762x20ir-13-cmos-2-mp-ip-ptz-camera/

You might consider adding a few extra IR lights for the periphery of your widest image. The IR lights on most of the PTZ's in that price range are basically a spot light, so the center 1/3 of your image will look fantastic, but the other 2/3 will be pretty dark. I have one of these mounted on the front of my office and it is excellent. This is a pretty decent price too, I know it is just outside your budget but it is a quality unit that is worth considering.

 

http://www.security360cameras.com/ltptzip762x20ir-13-cmos-2-mp-ip-ptz-camera/

Thanks for the reply. Are these additional lights added to the camera so they move with the camera, or are you saying to add flood lights that would illuminate the entire viewing area?

You could do it either way, add visible light cover things (nice deterrent) or add IR light and aim it at dark spots. I am generally a fan of visible light, but if you want to let the wilderness to remain unspoiled, that could be a consideration.

The Dahua PTZ has 4 LED's that adjust to the PTZ amount from wide angle to full telephoto. Even then, don't think it will add much value on the lake. Most PTZ can only go to the horizon, so mounting it too low, you will not be able to see things higher when you zoom in, maybe the shoreline, but not much above it if there's taller objects. That's why I like the sd59212s or sd59230s because they are the only ones on the market that I found that can tilt up 15 degrees.

That's why I like the sd59212s or sd59230s because they are the only ones on the market that I found that can tilt up 15 degrees.

That's a major selling point for me as well. We will be mounting this about 200ft up in the air over the lake which is about the level of the house deck. Even at +200ft above the lake, we would still like to look up higher.

Just to make sure, 0 degrees is looking at the horizon, -15 degrees would be looking up 15 degrees and 90 degrees is looking straight down?

"That's why I like the sd59212s or sd59230s because they are the only ones on the market that I found that can tilt up 15 degrees."

Don't know if the specs is a typo, but this one is also -15 ~ 90 for tilt according to the datasheet

http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9188

This is not the one we have on demo though.

Edit: just confirmed with my customer, he said he does tilt up around ~15 degrees for the model listed.

Yes, it can tilt 15 degrees above the horizon down to 90 degree below or straight down.

Wouldn't a window be better?

Wouldn't a window be better?

Do they make them with PTZ?

It;s like booking tickets to a football game and watching the game on your portable TV from your seat.

I can watch people water skiing in front of my lake house from my camera and I live 100 miles away. I tried looking out the window, just see my backyard.