mike_va

I always enjoy your videos, you've clearly got the bug. For you amusement, here's some heavy duty IR (and a sensitive 1/2" camera), it's actually bouncing off the front of me and lighting up the driveway...

We have only a few cams with IR, get spiders. The rest with external visible and IR. It helps since if the IR is not internal it does not attract or light up the bugs. The other thing to try is running some analytics if you're having trouble with lighting or trees. Still gets captured somewhat but pretty easy to set up a rule to not respond. Try the free demo of VitaminD, still my favorite. Built in motion detection is just not worth the time and energy outdoors.

It really depends if you want IP or not, and the catch being you said superb...superb is the LTC0620 (have not tried the 0630) - or the corollary is how much light do you want to add?

Lots of great night IP pics out there at slow shutter on the internet, NOBODY seems to specify the shutter speed (except IPVM, and maybe a few other savvy people whose livelihoods don't depend on this).

Might hamper sales or relationships...put a Bosch LTC0620 against the others - at the SAME shutter speed - no contest.

Have not tried the 1602 but the test pics I saw gave hope that finally there was a good lowlight IP camera. Even if it is not MP.

Having said all that, it is not THAT hard to get excellent pics from even a Axis P1344 at 1-30s. Just add light. I have a P3346 on the front of the house - takes about 60W of CFL to get good pics at 1-30s. And that's nowhere close to the distance you are talking about.

With that much light I can run a CNB in color and even turn the AGC down.

I have found an improvement, using one 3MP (Axis P3346) replacing 1.3MP (P3344). But this is a pretty wide FOV, I like having the extra resolution and don't want a lot of cams on the front of the house.

Nothing to do with TVL. I'd try a very short cable or a different power supply and see if it still does this.

I run 3MP cameras on it, for example Axis you can set up a view area of lower resolution. Most cams I've tried you can pull a lower res stream for Vitamin D, and record the high res stream using another program.

A few times I've gone back to ACS just to get the higher res stream. Attached are examples saved by Vitamin D 640x480 and ACS at 3MP (both cropped, although one is a png converted to jpeg). Random guy leaving a flyer in the front door.

At some point manufacturers are going to catch on to the idea that people like the idea of having cameras, just not the usability/functionality of the software - for a homeowner at least. But maybe this is to small of a market? VideoIQ looks interesting also, but Vitamin D is so easy to review (and save) clips.

I've not seen much of an advantage with above 3MP, perhaps after they get the dynamic range/exposure issues worked out. Arecont is especially poor in this regard - certain areas just do not get exposed right, on wide scenes.

Also, if it's not obvious you can run the stream to multiple VMS (which is what I do). Axis cameras are good in that regard, in that they have a more than adequate frame rate.

MJPEG to Vitamin D, 264 and MPEG4 to ACS. MJPEG gives the best picture, but full time recording eats up a lot of storage.

You can always try out Milestone Xprotect Go, limits you to a week recording and local client but free. Also check out Vitamin D, which is my favorite just in terms of easy review and finding out what is going on (1 channel is free, but limited to CIF).

 

Mike -- what's the max number of IP cameras you've used in conjunction with Vitamin-D on a single machine? Seems like there'd be a sweet spot, that if exceeded, would cause your system to be CPU bound trying to analyze too much incoming data.. I've got my 1.3Mp Basler that I'm hoping to put up this weekend and since it's not ONVIF compliant (and never will be) I'll probably try out Vitamin D again since I can't use it with my Avigilon setup that the other cameras are attached to.. The last time I tried the Basler+VitD, it seemed to use a fair amount of CPU to run their demo version with hard-wired ethernet (no wifi involved).. I'm hoping it'll be better this time around..

If you have a decent CPU that is not the limitation. I'm running an i7 with 13 cams (4 of them MP) and CPU is below 20-28% (just went and checked) - also running 12ch Axis ACS and 8 ch Milestone Go on the same machine. This thing is a monster, much better than an Athlon quad core. Issue is more HD throughput with VitD, added a seperate esata drive and it CRANKS. I can literally hold down the arrow key and race through the clips! Incredible.

It's a Dell XPS8300 that I got on sale from Costco $800.

Now on the other side of the spectrum is an old Mac mini core duo which can handle 4 cams max...

FYI, they let you run the license on as many machines as you want. This is their policy as stated by tech support.

Just for kicks was trying a striped RAID software array a few days ago with Seagate but it kept crapping out sending the Seagates back and going to try again with Caviar Black.

The other advantage not often mentioned is that if you set up the rules good, you can literally have MONTHS of saved clips on a 1TB drive with this many cameras...you do this by setting up a rule as what is saved - e.g. person in certain area. Then other clips are not saved - erased after you hit the user defined limit.

Here are those kids cutting though again today...try spotting that on Milestone or ACS, without spending your life looking at footage.

Just today got an email of these two running through the side yard. They are under the impression that if they run they will not be noticed - they know the cameras are there. Anyway just nice knowing what is going on, this example is not a big deal of course.

I don't see how people have the patience for normal software and motion detects...way too many false trips and who wants to spend their life looking through footage?

[*]High resolution is cool, but even the license plate won't buy you anything in most precincts. The cops just don't care.

Not true here. Lately I've not been running the IR, and they STILL want to see the pics - in the latest case two young women checking car doors. They are very encouraging of the cameras.

You can always try out Milestone Xprotect Go, limits you to a week recording and local client but free. Also check out Vitamin D, which is my favorite just in terms of easy review and finding out what is going on (1 channel is free, but limited to CIF).

If the connector is truly shot, can you solder the wires directly? You can use solder wick to clean out the holes on the pwb a bit, might work if the traces/vias are still intact.

Will it play with VLC? One program (free) that works well converting certain files is Handbrake, I've used it to convert ASF. Don't know if either would help in your case though.

Some of my favorites in terms of low light are 1/2". I've never tried an Ikegami though. Post some pics of you get it.

Lenses are not that big of a deal if you shop around and buy used. Look at C mount stuff also, tends to be less interest. You can also use 2/3, etc. Should not run you more than 10-20 if you are just looking for standard stuff. Longer >75mm can be a problem finding at a good price though.

You're looking at the right stuff, let me know if you find someone that will sell a piece of that. You'll need something that has a real sharp longpass cut.

Most houses have light(s) outside where I live, in fact it is required by the HOA. I can't see that being an annoyance?

Those seem like they would not last that long at 8W and what appears to be no heatsinking.

Do you really need IR? I run a couple of 30W CFL's out front plenty of light for my P3346 Axis in B&W or testing CNB's you can even run them in color.

If you do, less expensive options at 850nm check out CNB MIR1000 (they have a little fan inside that keeps them cool).

The only ones that don't glow red are the ones with the cutoff glass (take a lot of power generally, except for the HID versions which I have not tried) or the non surface mount IR 940nm LED's which are still going to be limited output generally.

Let me know if you find a good source for the glass, I think it is called borosilicate. I'd love to put some in front of my Raytec. This is what the old halogen units used.

Doh! I guess that's something I was NOT aware of regarding the 940nm vs 850nm wave lengths.. I guess these are out then since they won't give me the coverage I need..

 

If you don't mind.. With a 850nm light source like these or some of the other non-ebay varieties, is the red glow really that noticeable? I think I read somewhere that it's only visible/obvious if you're standing directly in-line with the light but may not see if if you're off to one side or the other. I guess I'll keep looking and doing more homework! Thanks for the heads-up! You saved me from a costly mistake!

I have some big Raytecs and 850 is definitely noticeable...to the point where I've had kids in the driveway trying to take them...these are not like the coupla LED's that are in a bullet camera.

Mouser has them

You might consider a used Axis 241Q ~$200 or Avigilon, although I have no experience with the latter as to streaming MJPEG but 4 channels is priced well although more than $200. Says it does MJPEG but don't know if you need push or what it does.

If it's just the grain bothering you add more light or try turning down the AGC.

I tried a logitech on VitaminD. While it "works", my Axis P1344 produces a MUCH better picture (granted it is not $50 or whatever).

Strong backlighting was a bad joke on the logitech. I also felt the logitech had a poor depth of field. And no low light capability. Anyway interesting experiment and returned.

Axis cameras are so much more flexible and can do much more.

There are inexpensive network cameras out there like Ubiquiti and Panasonic ($50-100), USB is pretty limiting. Good luck.

Raytec has some models that go wider. 30deg though is a pretty good compromise, depends what you are trying to do. The distance falls off greatly with increasing angle, they have some useful distance charts. You can get just as much light if not more with a PAR CFL, unless you really want IR.

I do a variant on both, using VitaminD analytics (greatly cuts down on false hits) you can get it to almost none - and those I get an email for based on rules (in area, entering etc). Distinguishes people vs objects pretty well. Use Axis Camera Station to record continuously. You could always start out with Milestone Go which is free (but limited to a week). But for most that is an expensive option, however it's nice knowing what is going on and I don't have the time or patience to review footage.

Sometimes you can find a good deal on used Axis encoders, I got a rack of 241S for $300. 241Q sometimes show up not too expensive ~$200 used, and Avigilon makes one new that is a bit more than that which might work (VitaminD works best with MJPEG). One of the nice things with that is you can get weeks if not over a month of clips on a small drive, depending on the number of cameras.

You could also play with the free version of VitaminD and just hook it up to a USB web cam.

I'm using my camera looking out through a window with a computer monitor anti-glare screen between the window and the camera to hide the camera from people outside the window.

More free advice (family curse)...

If you don't mind B&W you could also try some night vision material (passes only IR), you can get pieces cut on ebay. I think 12x12 is $25. Looks black from the outside, does not hurt the sensitivity. I tried some smoked plexi, this is much better. During the day the sun provides more than enough IR. As long as your night lighting has some IR (i.e. not LED or CFL) this works very well at night too.

Default settings are pretty good. Sometimes I turn down the AGC a bit (I think I usually end up around 15), reduces the noise in the picture. Put default shutter at 1-250s, it will still do sense up at night but during the day does a better job with fast moving whatever. Have not noticed a difference with BLC (back light compensation) affecting things at night.

The one spot where I have strong backlighting I use a Panasonic 484 WDR, this does a better job.

The main thing is actually walk testing your setup, and seeing if you can get a good enough picture for your purposes. If the driveway is 2 cars wide you may want more than one camera. If you have enough light I'd consider leaving it in color - easier to identify in color plus don't lose that time that the camera switches over.

If you're using the camera for identification 2x senseup is the max I'd use, using a fast lens f1.0 will also help you keep this at 2x (1-30s) or 1x (1-60s). The ideal is no senseup and color if you have enough light. Hope this helps.