Toaster

I've been running a Q-See QT528 DVR with varying camera's recording D1@30fps. Some of the camera's are CNB domes, others are Effio chip of varying brands (none of which I even remember anymore)

This system has been in place for several years and it has worked fine, my whole family knows how to use the app, the web login, etc... I have become accustomed to the way it works and have successfully built the system over a period of time (I started out with all Q-see included cameras and slowly replaced them 1 by 1 over a long period of time). These are installed at my retail business, inside and outside. The only issue I've had with the system as a whole is for whatever reason sometimes footage stutters (drops frames) badly on certain channels or even across all 8 channels. Sometimes the footage is smooth and fluid and other times it closer to 4-6 FPS or maybe lower... very jerky? NO CLUE WHY OR HOW TO SOLVE.

I recently had a couple of incidents where I needed clearer video especially outside to see license plates - which was impossible with my current system. So knowing that my system was ancient by todays standards I set off to upgrade or at least add-to it, a few high resolution cameras in key area's.

I purchased a Swann SWDVK-849808 kit locally, which was 8x 5mp bullets with PIR, 8CH legacy DVR... The price was excellent and I know what the feeling is here about consumer level CCTV systems - I've been a member for a long time, even bought some of my replacement camera's for my D1 system from members here. BUT I again assumed even the consumer level stuff HAD to be an improvement over my aged setup.

I installed 3 of the 8 cameras, in the key positions to test the system... I'm very disappointed with the quality. Yes the images are much bigger but the quality TO ME seems to be about the same... I'm shocked.

I do not know who makes the swann dvr (these are BNC type cameras/dvr), I think some of the veterans here figured out the Q-see QT528 was actually made by Dahua, it just didn't have HDMI output. The Swann dvr does not allow me to save footage over LAN thru the web interface - only using the actual DVR and USB ports on the DVR? This can't be right!? The ability to pull off footage from the store while away is vital I would think. YES you can view recorded video over the web interface, but NOT actually save it via LAN/Web...? WHAT!?

The camera's ability to view INSIDE where there is shadow and light is terrible. Shadow area's are INCREDIBLY dark while the lighted area's look fine, trying to adjust the color/brightness of the camera results in overexposed lighted area to get the shadows (not well lit) area bright enough to see any details/features (ie: a face)

Now, after my long rant - I'm simply trying to get some help/advice here. Is this system worth trying to troubleshoot and tweak? I basically need 4 high resolution cameras that I can reliably get facial details and plate numbers. SUGGESTIONS?

Great news, and congratulations on the repair. I figured that MUST be what people use them for... but I wasn't sure if that board "IS" the camera, sounds like pretty much it is.

Cellphones have very small sensors and are over 5mp.

I never thought of that. " title="Applause" />

I will say this, along the same topic, I don't understand how CCTV camera's produce such radically different image quality versus a consumer grade camcorder. Watching CCTV footage from an analog system, then compared to some old home movies from a SD camcorder... wow.. the camcorder is so much better.

Is going from D1 to 960h worth it? Does anyone happen to have samples of 960H recordings to compare against D1 ?

Great find on the seagate. " title="Applause" /> I have not seen those locally, in my neck of the woods, I see the WD GPAV dvr series, though never on sale - but still, they are locally available from a big brick and mortar store. So there's that.......................

Looks like good coverage. When you say pipe, did you run cable inside pvc ?

I want to re-run my house that way.........

I'm going to introduce a new concept to cheap and frugal. Personally I feel many of the more expensive brands have more inexpensive equal counterparts. Why? Because I think they are all made in China, and the same camera made by the same people in the same factory is put in several branded boxes and shipped around the world, including some generic eBay brands. I may be wrong ? But that's what I feel.

That being said I have not done much experimenting with brands x,y,z... but when you see a $200 camera listed with same specs and parts as a $70 camera, it makes you wonder......

And I think that's what a lot of us non-professionals think. So in all fairness not everybody is straight out CHEAP, as much as feel they are probably the same as the more expensive counterpart

I just picked up a couple of CNB cameras which are older models, and I'm pretty sure they do not have the MONALISA dsp chip. D2815NVF, V2310NIR and a LDM-24VF ... Does anyone have any experience with these...

The D2815NVF are all plastic and do not have the same build quality as the other 2... so I'm not sure whats the deal there. ANY HELP OR ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

I recently picked up a replacement CCTV camera. It has the pigtail that connects into the bottom of the camera for OSD, but didnt come with a joystick. Is there a way to access the OSD menu without a joystick? For example a PTZ program off of the DVR?

Is the joystick broken off? I recently bought 2 cameras with OSD, one (empire) has the joystick pigtail attached to the cable coming from the camera, just before the 2 regular video/power connectors.

The other (a swann) has 3 connectors coming from the camera, video, power and a pair for the OSD remote control which you can mount inside next to the dvr using the supplied triple cable in the box. Yep, triple cable, not siamese double cable. Now, I can tell you than on the swann - you have to use its remote control (as far as I know), I tried hooking up the 2 osd wires to the dvr using the ptz controls, and nothing happened... but in all fairness I'm not a pro so maybe theres a trick to making it work like a different protocol or baud rate or something...?

No one has used these?

I'd love to see some pictures of the install.

WHY THE HELL ARE WE HELPING THESE PEOPLE?

That attitude is terrible. If you don't like helping or contributing here on this forum, or on any forum - then don't. It's a free forum and a free country - You decide to help or not, but complaining about it, well... that's your burden to bare.

What I'm taking away from this thread so far is you started out as a DIY, decided somewhere along the way it was fairly easy work, you obviously took to it and understood it, and figured you could perhaps make a living or least a few extra bucks from going in to business doing this.. and that's fine. So you YOURSELF started out here looking for advice, and now decide to publicly lash out about that very topic. As someone else pointed out, if a failed business venture is your motivation, you've got a lot to learn about being an independent business owner.

From personal experience, I'm sure others will agree, no matter what business your in - competition is part of it. And yes, competition from DIY'ers, fly by nights, 5% markup box movers - those are all your competitors. It doesn't matter what the occupation is... CCTV sales and installation, The guy who changes your oil in your car, or the corner grocery store. The key to any successful business is not eliminating your competition, the success comes in offering what they can not get elsewhere. And there will always be customers who waste your time and don't hire you, or don't spend money in your store - again, that's part of it. I'm sure you've done it yourself - how many times have you seen something locally, picked it up, read the box, then put it back and then ordered it cheaper online....? The retailer you originally saw the item at has rent, utility bills, stock and inventory expense, perhaps a sales team or worse is a self owned business, and instead of letting them make 20% or whatever the markup was - you ordered it from ebay or amazon.... We've all done it.

Personally I think this forum helps your industry way more than it hurts or undercuts small independent owners of businesses like you. The people who are successful in a TECH BUSINESS are the smart ones who grow, adapt and offer CUSTOMER SERVICE. No business is made by the 1 time sale... All successful businesses have repeat clients, happy clients who up sale you and your product to others for you. Like I said, I'm sorry for your frustrations, but your attitude based on the original post is pretty bad... In the same sense, why is anyone here helping YOU? Maybe you are a competitor in their area? Maybe simply by these guy's helping you they took money out of their pockets? Did anyone tell YOU "NO" ? Or did you get the answers you needed, and ultimately enough knowledge to go it to business ???????

Seriously guy, look in the mirror before casting stones.

but to be fair to myself, I am a technician and not a salesman, but I am learning very fast. I can win people's trust very quickly and they for the most part, seem to like me and my attitude. I wanted to be a technician to avoid being a salesman but it seems to have backfired on me by going the independent route. Still for every freedom there is a price to pay and dealing with the public is that price.

Honestly, it sounds like you are not cut out to be a business owner. By your own admission - you wanted to be a tech to work for someone and not deal with the front end. Let someone else handle the public, and you just get paid to do the work. There is nothing wrong with that.

Assuming your DVR can record audio, you should have a standard RCA jack UNDER 1 or more of the BNC video channels.

It should look something like this... this is a q-see qt428 image from newegg, just as an example. Then after you hook up audio source (your camera with mic) then you go in to the menu GUI of your dvr, and make sure your audio option is set to record. *NOTE: All this information is about Q-see because those are the DVR's I have, and are the only one's I am familiar with... I'm sure yours are similar (but may be different) so as always YMMV

So are we talking about only the pixim products, or are we talking about cmos cameras in general. Sounds like your saying the pixim brand camera's.........................?

The big problem with "budget" anything is whenever anyone mentions it here, they get slammed.

Seems like everything low cost is junk in the opinions of the posters/repliers. That's why I asked this question, surely even the pro's MUST install analog, and if so, what are the suggested cameras.

I have not bought any of that cheap cable off ebay - yet, but I planned on buying the cat5 there.

If you read some of the auctions, they say the wire inside isn't even copper, its aluminum copper clad

Great, thanks for the info guys.... Great links with super info...

Now if I can find the balun setups cheap, I'll be good to go. I saw some 3 in 1 baluns that run power, video and audio all in one and they use a standard ethernet plug too... pretty cool.

Anyone know where to get these cheap? (beside's ebay from china?)

Which way is better? Siamese cable or cat5?

The cable is about the same price... 1000ft of either for about $100 locally. So it comes down to the ends or baluns. Looks like the baluns might be a better choice, plus the cable will be easier to work with (cat5 being smaller and more flexible then rg59 siamese cable)

Opinions?

I realize that most of the regular's on this forum are in the business, and this is their livelihood. You guys eat, drink and breathe this stuff... I get it. Of course you know the in's and out's, the good, the bad and the ugly.

Obviously, not every client want's to drop big bucks on ip and megapixel. (maybe I should say, can't afford to spend the big bucks).

Anyway, I have a feeling you guys are still installing and setting up (at least) some analog setups... and I'm sure you know what hardware is good, what performs well on a budget, and what to stay away from. In this context we are saying analog (non ip megapixel) setups are "budget".

OK... So the question is pretty easy, What do you guys suggest for camera's TODAY? General purpose let's say... You guys know better than anyone, the customer always wants to get the most for their dollar.

I've seen lots of talk about Effio dsp... I've seen Sony ExView super had II 960h ccd chipset cameras, and then I have seen some other variant of super had in some other flavor(s) with lower overall resolutions... Then you see lots of 700 tvl cameras, and even more 600tvl cameras - I'm guessing because they've been around longer (the 600tvl variants I mean).

Searching this topic is hard, because it really is a TIME SENSITIVE topic.... Just a couple of years ago lot's of people on here loved the CNB 24vf cameras (or other CNB models)... claiming those were the one's to get, today most of the more recent posts argue that CNB falls short in some fashion be it aggresive night DNR, or something else... and I even saw one post where the OP says he's done with CNB, when his posts from a year or 2 earlier show him PRAISING CNB camera's. (*NOTE: I'm not trying to rag on CNB or any brand, just using the example I have personally read about on this forum)

SO: With Effio DSP and the new Sony ExView Super Had II 960h, CNB's Blue-I, WDR, Eclipse technology, and I'm sure TONS OF OTHERS... What do YOU guys suggest for old fashion Analog camera's nowadays? What would you suggest ???

i have situation like you and foud that cameras with Pixim realy works miracles in such cases. It has cmos and is capable of procesing image on pixel base and not on frame base .

 

Here are some generic models for reference

http://www.ebax.si/app/trg/index.php/cameras-cctv-pixim-camera-c-21_404?language=en ( for info only, they dont sell to usa)

Are you saying a CMOS camera will handle the shadows better than CCD? Hmm... anyone? I don't have any cmos cameras to test, can anyone verify this?

Yes.... still nothing from CH4

Most of the posts about these cameras are from around 2009... What's the opinion of this camera TODAY? And what would be a good deal on them? on today's market? say 5 of them

Yeah, I didn't type this properly in the first place... my fault. Let me explain in some detail.

This is an 8 ch dvr. It was up and running with 8 cameras connected. The camera's connect to the DVR using a cable that looks something like this

This is the cable that got cut, That cable has video feed and power feed. So when the cable cut, I meant to explain the cable that carries the video and power from inside, to the camera. The cable actually cut in 2, straight thru... The video died (blacked out) on ch4 of the dvr, while the other 7 ch's still work and display video.

I replaced the cable, and still did not get any video on that particular ch4. I then swapped ch4 and ch5 as a test using the new cable, I got video on ch5 but still not on ch4.. in other words the camera that was on ch4 now with a new cable DOES WORK ON CH5 but no camera works on ch4. So I can say for certain that ch4 of the dvr is damaged in some way, because the camera works, the power supply works, and of course a new cable works.

The DVR is powered using a power brick, and the camera's are powered by 2 power bricks using 2 splitters (4 cameras per brick). Everything works, except CH4 of the DVR, no matter what's connected to CH4 - I never get video on that ch, and that ch was the one that had the cable connected to it when it got cut

I hope that explains my situation, and answers you questions. (yeah, all the power supplies seem to be fine - the damage was to the cable and apparently ch4 of the dvr)

7 ch work, only the 1 ch that was connected to the wire that cut seems affected. The wire that cut was the one going from the dvr to the camera.

Basically the cabling will be all run outside. NOT IDEAL - I KNOW.

There is no attic, its pretty much like this, walls are drywall, insulation, outside/brick/siding.

Ceiling, insulated board of some kind, shingles (roof). no attic.

So, I'm going to have to poke a hole in the wall, route the wires outside, and run along the outside to wherever the cameras will go. I was thinking about pvc conduit for the wires and cabling... that's gonna be fun... but the problem is the camera location(s), should I use some kind of box? (if they even make one big enough).

Some of these cameras will most likely have that little joystick pigtail thing for osd controls.

If anyone has tackled this before and maybe has some pictures and advice, I would absolutely LOVE to see and read any help is appreciated.