Nimrod

I have seen a few posts refer to "4K". Such as "in 4 years all equipment will be 4K". What is 4K.

“hi you wont find Dahua DVRs being sold in the UK on ebay .co.uk only old models from china. they get removed.“ I think i saw that about CNB cameras also, why are these items removed in the UK?

D1 DVR’s can be had fairly inexpensively. Search ebay for “Dahua dvr” they have a good reputation.

Free bandwidth calculator. http://download.cnet.com/IP-Camera-Bandwidth-Disk-Space-Calculator/3000-2348_4-10602114.html

I guess the real question is how well does it work, does it have even lighting, and reasonable brightness, and at what distance.

Thanks for testing Mike.

What is your estimate of how far over 100 meters it is.

It looks like my original idea of using a ir pass filter to get rid of the dull red glow from the 730nm leds is a poor idea. I looked up the transmitted light of a typical 730 nm led and it has a rather narrow transmissive spectrum. Any filter that would get rid of the red glow would also stop most of the ir light from the leds. It looks like Soundy and Rory in the beginning of this thread had it nailed at the start, use higher nm leds.

“The 650nm are the ones to get if you want to cut out all visible light.” Sorry guys i made a mistake, 650nm is on the wrong side of the cutoff, this would mean 650nm and up would be transmitted making the 730nm ir leds visible. I should have said use the 760nm filter. I did find another place for filters looking at specs now. Chart of there filter cutoffs are here. http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteTreeFilterComparison.htm

mike_va, thank you for buying this filter, could you do an experiment for us. Place this filter over a regular cctv ir led light source, and at night tell us how close you have to get to see the faint red glow of the ir leds.

Like he said. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26048

I have been able to buy f1.0 fixed lens (CS) fairly easily and cheaply, but i never saw a f1.0 varafocal, they are probably made, but are very expensive.

Fixed lenses can typically be gotten with a lower F stop than varifocal so better low light performance.

Manual lenses are very inexpensive on ebay, no need to trash a good one to make a cheap one.

“Without getting too windy here... I'm looking for a good DVR that will do 8 channels. I would like the best cameras we can afford... we could probably start with 4 cams. I've been looking at a kit at tiger-direct but I don't know how nice it is... http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=165417&sku=Q300-2804“ As a general rule packaged systems are garbage. The cameras you get with them are throw away and the dvr usually has a small HD. The package you picked out is a good example of this. At this same store you were looking at they have Q-see dvr’s as bare units, no cameras, no hard drives, in 4, 8, 16 channel units. These are a good deal and they are rebranded Dahua units. “Found these: CNB VCM-24VF Looks pretty nice! I'm not sure how many of these they could afford but I think for the driveway and the back of the house it may be perfect” Good find, best bang for the buck. “We're also exploring options for home security and looking at ADT but we're not sure yet. We could do this ourselves too if we can find a good system. I'm not sure what the budget would be for this yet. ADT looks pretty good... but they will be living here for 20-30 years so the monthly costs will add up!” Hard to say if adt is worth it or not. You have other options here like using the optix brand pir sensors. They can be set up to look at an area, or as beams around the house. You could tie the output of these beams to your dvr (terminal block on back of dvr) to start recording, or if adt lets you tie it into there system to call for help. Or program your dvr to send you an alert. You also may want to consider beams and a VERY loud siren aimed at your neighbors, that may just scare them away before they get in. OH, and of course the tried and true method of protection, a very mean dog.

“Is a Samsung SCD-2021 with a lux of 0.15Lux - 50 IRE @F1.2 good for use in a dark room.” I would have to say no. When you say dark i will assume you mean no lights on. Now i am really winging it here, but wild guess to give you some frame of reference, a .15 lux camera in a room 20ft x 20ft you would need at least 25 watt light bulb for usable image. If you really mean a dark room, like no light, then no conventional camera would work. You would need some kind of artifical light or a thermal imager. If you want a good analog camera with good low light performance a CNB camera would be a good choice for color with lights on, and some lighting with black and white output. DBM-24VF 1/3" 600TVL, Indoor, true day/night, DC Iris M13 2.8-10.5mm .005 lux If you always want low light performance and black and white is ok, look at the KT&C KPC-VBN190 series of bullet cameras.

Ebay has a good assortment of cases i searched for “mini itx case”.

I looked up your DVR you can only record in half D1. See page 31 in the manual. http://www.specotech.com/DVR/TNfamily/SPECO_TN_ManualVer_2121.pdf If you want to know if your existing cameras are sufficient you can try this trick. Unplug a camera from the dvr and get a bnc to rca adapter, then plug that camera in a television with a external video input. The picture you see here will be the best the camera will put out. Can you read plates like you want, can you id people walking in the door, etc. For a new DVR many people like the Dahua dvr as best bang for the buck. It is rebranded under many names like Q-see and also available on Ebay.

OK guys, your getting it late but you are getting it straight. Rory got me thinking about the cutoff for ir filters and i want the same thing the original poster wanted except i want to use mine for an covert license plate camera. So i googled around a bit and much to my surprise ir filters are available from at least 650 to 1000nm in 7 increments. Search for this phrase on ebay and look at his store. Infrared IR Optical Grade Filter for Lens The 650nm are the ones to get if you want to cut out all visible light.

“I was afraid that Blue Iris may choke, I guess time will tell. I know from digging around on here there may be some other options either free or inexpensive that would work for only few cameras.” Let us know if you find a mp camera that works well with blue iris. Main details are fps you get, mp of camera, and cpu use with cpu used, when camera is running. “I understand CAT6 is overkill...however I have a bunch of it left over from networking the rest of the house.” Your right, in this case go with cat6 and just a reminder, the cable is probably not rated for outdoor use so do not run in direct sunlight or let it sit in a pool of water. “To my knowledge, the neighbors are not using anything other than the camera itself for recording. I took a look at the neighbor with the M3204 and the picture is actually really nice. I am waiting to see how it looks during the night...” That would be interesting, but do not forget the ACTi TCM-1231 you picked out is a better camera. It has an ir cut out filter and a 1/3“ sensor not a 1/4“ one ( i tried to find real night time lux specs but both vendors do a good job of hiding them).

“Wont that work both ways though? Such as the light going into the camera? (if its an IR camera) Also if the IR is 730nm or higher looks like it wont block that, which is the glow you get from those 730-840nm IR? Seems as if they are just to block all visible light going into a camera, such as with an IR only camera (eg. separate daytime camera or filter removed during the day).” Rory i am having a little trouble following you questions, let me try and see if i understood what you are asking. 1) You could use this filter over the camera to block visible light and just get ir light, if that is what you were getting at. 2) “Also if the IR is 730nm or higher looks like it wont block that, which is the glow you get from those 730-840nm IR?” I see what you are saying here, i looked very carefully at the chart and it looks like 730nm is on the visible side of the cutoff. I have not tried this edmund filter, but i have a dark red ir filter that when placed over ir leds i have to have my eye a 12 inches or closer to the filter in the dark to see anything at all. So it is a tough call if this edmond filter will be better or worse. 3)”Seems as if they are just to block all visible light going into a camera, such as with an IR only camera (eg. separate daytime camera or filter removed during the day).” I could not follow this at all.

“Been there done that very minimal effect with actual IR reductions” Do you have any idea what this thread is about or what i recommended? The original poster has a problem of the dull red glow from the ir leds giving away the its position and intent. He wants to get rid of the faint glow. The faint glow of the ir leds is visible light, this is the light that needs to be filtered out so his led assembly can not be seen. The ir filter i recommended filters out visible light NOT ir light. I do not know why you have such a big problem with the difference between ir and visible light but you clearly have them mixed up. Read this 3 times “The filter lets the ir light thru and blocks the visible light.” And then think about what the original poster is asking for, NO VISIBILE LIGHT FROM THE IR LED ASSEMBLY. Now, do you finally understand this, or do i have to rub your face in it a few more times.

EOppie, here is my 2 cents worth of advice. “Goal of the system is primarily for exterior monitoring/recording of home. There has been an increase in minor vandalism such as egging, irrigation system damage, trash/debris being thrown, and landscapes being damaged. Ideally I would like to be able to capture vehicles and persons that are in the area of the home during both daytime and nighttime hours. As far as ambient light at night, the neighborhood has streetlights, and my porch lights stay on all night. I understand that for my budget, I am not going to go with a facial recognition or license plate caliber system.” Think about this, you already have a camera system that does not identify, and you are going to upgrade to another system that will not identify? “Currently I have been running Low End Panasonic IP Cameras, I have a BL-C1A in both the kitchen and living room.” Hopefully you have these 640x480 cameras pointed at the entrance ways of the room were you can get an id if someone does break in. Also make sure you are not looking at an area of more than 5 to 6 feet wide for good id. “For the exterior, I have a BL-C10A that is aimed out the front window. I am looking to upgrade this camera due to wanting better picture quality.” Another 640x480 camera and out a window, i think you already figured out it gives a poor picture. “For recording, I have a dedicated PC running Blue Iris which I have been happy with, however have been looking into other solutions based on this forum.” Blue iris has a lot of functionality, its problem is the front end, or getting the picture in. I found that 640x480 ip cameras worked well with it, but when i went to a 1.2mp camera the cpu jumped up 20% with 1.8 gig duel core, and could only get around 4 fps max into it. “Main concern once again is the front of the structure. I am currently debating camera locations, and I feel I may need to end up with multiple. Other homes of the same model have a single dome camera under the front porch, on the left side of the structure. This seems to work relatively well, I included a shot of what I can currently see from the window.” If the other houses have gotten enough identification for a conviction. Then it may be a good model to follow. “I am proposing putting a camera above the porch as others have done, as well as install another camera under the eve on the right hand side of the residence. I need to get up under the eve and look, as when the tree is in full bloom, I imagine this will be partially blocked.” Tree’s can be a real problem and force you to use multiple cameras, or alternate locations. Some places you may not have considered assuming you are a hands on type of guy. Looking thru a hole in the fence, hiding camera in bushes or in some ornament that looks good next to bushes. Some people have made holes in garage walls for cameras. “For gear, I have been looking into a ACTi TCM-1231 or GeoVision MFD110 for under the eves. I also have been looking at used Axis Gear as well. I am open to recommendations, however this should give an idea on price range.” From what you listed the acti tcm 1231 looks best spec wise. “All will be run back to the structured wiring panel with Cat6, and will be connected to a POE switch.” Cat6 is not needed, cat5 will work fine. Use the one you have supplies for, wire and rj45 ends. “Next door, our neighbor had a local installer put in an Axis 216FD above the porch, and elsewhere in the neighborhood a different installer put in an Axis M3204 in the same location. I find it interesting that both of these are mounted outside, however are indoor cameras. Experts correct me if I am wrong!” You are right they are indoor cameras. http://www.axis.com/files/datasheet/ds_216fd_combo_32272_en_0809_lo.pdf http://www.axis.com/files/datasheet/ds_m32_41247_en_1011_lo.pdf Putting aside the indoor camera mounted outside i would cozy up to the neighbor who has the Axis M3204, it is a 1mp camera similar in resolution to the acti you like, and you can and really study the its video to see if it can ident who is doing what. BTW, this looks like a very nice neighborhood. From your description it sounds like many people are having problems. Do you have any idea why random acts of vandalism are happening there.

“I don't get it if u have IR Led why would u put this filter over IR Led filter u recommend is long pass meaning to block visible and pass IR u see my point and/or ? plx explain your logic are u suggesting it will hide his 850nm IR ? I don't think its gonna happened” The small amount of light he can see given off by the ir leds is in the visible spectrum. Putting the ir filter over the ir leds will block this light.

“I assume those filters diminish the light the camera can see as well. Is it significant?” From looking at grafs on product page it looks like you louse about 10% of ir light.