freeflyer

Well smart voloftn

nice looking bit of kit, i'd be interested to know how you get on with it

regards - freeflyer

Hi

I am building a GV1480 system and have two Asus silent 256Mb Graphics cards available to use; will they both work? which one would you recommend / choose? i will be running 3 monitors on as high a res as I can get plus the GV DSP output on a CCTV monitor

Asus EAX1300PRO (graphics engine is RADEON X1300PRO SILENT)

256MB DDR2 / 600MHz clock / Memory Clock 800MHz (400MHz DDR2)

Memory Interface 128-bit

or

Asus AX700 (graphics engine is ATI Radeon X700LE)

256 MB DDR / 400MHz clock / Memory Clock 500MHz

Memory Interface 256-bit

thanx for any help

Hi

Anyone recommend a good UPS for a PC Based CCTV system (GV1480)

Also; As these things use the COM port on the PC to send the signal from UPS to PC to switch off etc; what do you do if you are already using the COM port ??

Any comments appreciated

Regards Freeflyer

Increase it, it will in fact double it, then the price of control centre on top and the added problem of 2 X systems meaning increased possibility of errors / hardware issues / problems.. & More config/setup.. Has ticked me off a bit because this isn't apparent on the spec sheets & sales literature.

Don't get me wrong, I think Geo offers fantastic features and value for what you pay, but was going to go geo as a test exercise - I am looking at a solution to use myself and test to extreme first but with the aim of being able to provide to clients also (they will have to have real time record on all channels; no negotiation on that point) and, now I’m pausing before buying.

Geo sent me a file called “suggestPc1230.pdfâ€

Thanx for the info Rory

I hadn't realised on full time record that at 8+ cams there were restrictions / disadvantages that would affect the overall recording ability. Is this the edge of the technology available right now or just with geo? This isn’t shown in the marketing literature either is it?

I inadvertently thought by building a high spec system for the GV1480 it would allow me to have all the cake and eat it too! Should I therefore be considering 2 combo cards / systems to get the full time recording on all cameras or what? Aaaaghhh…

In an ideal world I was after a system with the Geo features; that would record full time on all 12+ cams from one box plus allow the possibility of upgrading to 16 cams in the future, with the best resolution available; simply due to wanting the best evidential quality available and not having problems if / when the data has to stand up in court here in the UK (real time is the only way to go for our needs and the way the UK courts are a’heading – especially in high level cases and anti terror evidence) UK has finally released some digital CCTV standards at last also, you may be interested See Code of Practice for Digital Recording Systems for the Purpose of Image Export to be used as Evidence. http://www.bsia.co.uk/pdfs/Form_191.pdf

Is there a one-box solution / system available in the marketplace that provides the dogs bollox & the recording ability I require, also I have come to expect / want the features that Geo software provides and cannot find a standalone that offers this.

I would love to know what is available at all levels of the trade, whether in my budget range or not.

Then again if there is it’s going to be at the corporate level with corporate prices no doubt

Regards & thanx

freeflyer

Hi folks

As I am building a new PC for this task anyway it makes sense that I use the best components for the money I have available. Add to this the geek factor and that I view the Geo system I will be using as a critical system that I cannot afford any single link in the chain to be not up to the job 24/7.

More importantly; I want this system to be powerful enough and able to provide the following:

Full time recording on highest resolutions possible on 12 to 14 cams (Q; will this be 720 X 576 on 12 to 14 cams on a GV1480?)

Add to this that the images will also be getting accessed via LAN (Gbit Ethernet) on a 24/7 basis: and

that image data will be uploaded / recorded off site also, does it not make sense to select a high spec PC / component level for the task at hand? After all I don’t want to be wasting money for the sake of it either!

From previous experience of component reliability and building high spec PC systems for business or play I know the difference in reliability between a lower spec / oem component versus a higher spec & better branded / tested for constant use &/or overclocking item for example; the extra cash paid for the improvements & reliability achieved has always provided me with the extra reliability, assurance and spare overhead I have needed, especially when it comes to future upgrades; software changes or an increased requirement on the kit that’s already in place.

As an example take a Porsche, you may not want to drive at 150 mph and choose to do 60 everywhere, BUT in the back of your mind you know the brakes will stop the car from 170 in half the distance of a normal family vehicle travelling at 50mph; that assurance behind the scenes Is the same angle I take when building a critical system, especially an IT based security one!

Hey wookie

I have gone for the PC power & cooling Turbo-Cool 510 Express-PSU, check out the site below for prices, they offer this model at less than your Tagan (£160 inclusive of VAT) however it depends what you need wattage wise, there are other models:

It's surprising how many DIY PC builders select a crap PSU until they learn the hard way, When it comes to power supplies, it’s performance and reliability that count; if you are running a system 24/7 its one of the most important components there is in your box, especially if you want stable power rails; so go to http://www.extremeprometeia.com they are in Scotland; UK

hope this floats yer boat

regards

Hi Wookie welcome

I’m a relative newb to PC based CCTV, but not CCTV in general; I can only advise of my own personal experience. If you search the forum for further info I am sure you will find most of the answers you are looking for, however for me I wanted a CCTV system at my site that was technology based & would give me a high level of features & flexibility including (not necessarily in order of preference) the following:

Ability to provide:

Record real time on all cameras (12 to 16)

View & control remotely (over LAN & the WEB) with SSL Connection

Video lost detection

Prove all images are authentic and unaltered (court admissible)

Tie into alarm systems & PIR sensors

Send alarm info &/or images to mobile phone &/or web address etc

Motion sensitive & controllable

Privacy masking (See Data protection Act)

Proper, high quality i.e. quality cameras..Day & night vision (when are you most likely to be broken into?)

My top priority was to have a system that was reliable but most of all able to record off-site when away from the premises (i.e. its no good if your hard earned cash / CCTV system is removed by burglars for example & if they select your place & see cameras, they will look for and rip out your system) Be aware though, if they see what appears to be a well installed, secure & professional CCTV system they will most likely just keep walking passed your place to your neighbours! Having had my fingers burned submitting time lapse evidence to a court previously I only wanted real time on all cams that is also recorded off site.

I have gone for Geovision myself! It’s the only system on the market that has provided me with what I want for my application and running 12+ cameras on real time from one box

Regarding Digital Watermarking; in the UK it’s a term commonly used to describe image authentication from the following 3 types;

Digital Fingerprinting: A method of generating a unique ‘fingerprint’ of the original recorded image that cannot be reproduced if the ‘original recorded’ image is altered and therefore reveals image tamper.

Checksumming: Each image is checksummed according to an algorithm based on unique key data. Any change to the image or metadata would cause a massive change in the resultant checksum.

Digital Watermarking: Visible watermarking describes visibly insignificant changes made to the pixel values to incorporate information, which changes if the image file is altered. Invisible watermarking, a form of checksumming, can provide image authentication checks without compromising the integrity of the original recorded digital image.

Regarding the legality of your system; there are several things you may want to make yourself aware of: (though take this as advice only)

Data protection Act (as a private / residential you should be able to circumvent most of this though, might be an idea to register your system simply for your own protection, incl: future changes to the regulations)

Local Planning laws (generally unless your in a protected property or your cameras are closer than 10 metres to each other on the outside of your premises you should be fine here)

Audit Trail you have to be able to provide an audit trail to any image/s that you submit as evidence in the UK (to show they have not been tampered with etc.)

You also have to take into consideration the fact that if you are compressing images you may start losing quality; in the UK you do need high quality images that clearly identify individuals to use as evidence in a court under the new regulations;

I would recommend you take a look at the new Code of Practice for Digital Recording Systems for the Purpose of Image Export to be used as Evidence. (http://www.bsia.co.uk/pdfs/Form_191.pdf )

This will give you all the info you need to be really sure, might be an idea for anyone in the UK that either installs or uses CCTV in the UK to read this fully too!

If you want to be able to use the evidence in court and are doing this on a small budget then naturally you will be installing yourself; however, it would be well worth your while getting a professional CCTV engineer in to provide you with a survey at least, this way you can use their experience and just pay for their time performing the survey that you will get a copy of, also reduces the huge learning curve you will have to otherwise take. Especially as camera placement, viewing angles, field of views & lens choice is so important and there are rules & regs for the identification of individuals, percentage of image size etc. I only recommend branded kit myself, there is a lot of OEM kit out there that simply isn’t up to the job of providing evidence quality recording!

Make sure you have created a list of all your questions before they arrive and only use a company that you have a reference (or several) for. I would only recommend using a company who has installed systems where the evidence has been used & stood up in court already; there are a lot of cowboys out there believe me! Try asking your solicitors for a reference, they should know exactly who has submitted CCTV evidence and who has installed the kit. You do not want to learn the hard way and see someone walk away from court when you & the police know they did it!

Finally, you do get what you pay for and I have tested numerous cams from UK suppliers, most of which turned out to be trash when it came to image quality & as they say image is everything! If you are a business, then open a trade account with a supplier to get trade prices allowing you to get decent kit at proper prices! PM me for more info

Hope this helps & good luck

Thought I should post this reply from Geo to put it down for others..

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your reply to us.

Both hardware have been tested by our engineering and there appears to be no major difference when using a dual core instead of a P4 HT machine.

Therefore, we believe you may choose the one which you would prefer.

Please let us know if you have any further concerns over this.

Thank you again for your e-mail reply.

Best regards,

GeoVision Technical Support

Harry

No problem, for you it would be a pleasure dude

Also considering compiling a step by step manual as I build this one (one of my hats is as an IT training company director including devising & creating bespoke software training courses & manuals then testing them before training rollout) I felt that an illustrated how to build your own would be good for DIY'ers and CCTV' co's that have yet to take the plunge into PC based; whaddya think?

will send you a PM on my other idea....

thanks folks

Dual core it is, see my other post (component spec for ideal GV1480 system) for the final machine spec, ordering kit today

Can't wait to get it up and running, thanx to all in the forum for your help so far, especially Rory & Thomas; cheers Guys; I owe you a cold one " title="Applause" />

PS Rory; what does downpacked mean?

Hey

just swapped the M board to Asus P5LD2 Deluxe BTW, better features and my last board was an Asus too, rockin hardware, just putting it into a vapochill XE as I am a bit of a spec geek

Rory; Got the Extreme cams this week - nice, will update you with a handover on the EX80 & EX14's when system up & running; I will be prepping the SW and removing all the crap 1st, including taking your pre install / XP tweaking recommendations into account - Thanx, -

any advice on a good soft/hardware stress / load testing package to drill down the PC and specifically test the GV card before going into operation would be appreciated

BTW Rory; I am presently compiling a list of Registry hacks/ tweaks that should / could also be performed to aid the smooth running of XP and stop unwanted issues before they happen, I will forward you a copy when it's complete (and I have tested them on an GV system 1st also!)

Hi Voloftn, regarding the lockbox, I was unsure whether to go lockable rack or lockbox myself, I am getting one built to spec locally that will be bolted down and big enough for the kit, PC, Gbit switch UPS etc, it will also have a heat / humidity switch that turns on an extractor when needed & throws the air outside- I would recommend either a shower duct fan (quiter) or an inline duct fan (more air removed) for this task, all depends on where the box is located, i'm interested in what PSU have you gone for

good luck with the build, my final spec is as follows, you will see from the components I am choosing that I want this system to last and to run 24 / 7 every day without a single hickup;

Asus P5LD2 Deluxe

2Gb Corsair Twin X matched pair 667 memory

3.0 G processor (Dual Core)

OS on RAID 1 - 2X 36Gb Raptors

Storage on Raid 1 or 10- 1Tb on WD enterprise SATA II drives (4X 500GB WD RE2 WD5000YS; 5 year warranty)

eSATA for external storage / backup on Thecus N2050

PSU: PC power & cooling Turbo-Cool 510 Express-nuff said!

6 X 120mmm Papst fans- believe me they are worth the xtra cost

256Mb ATI graphics - yet to select which one

UPS; yet to decide

built to task Lockbox with external extractor fans

like it?

Hi all

I am building a new system for a 1480 card and have to choose between

a Pentium 4 3.0 with hyperthreading or a dual core

Geovision support have explained that dual core processors will work on a GV system (1480) but which will perform best?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Hi all

After extensive research on this site, I am setting up a Geo 1480 System on a new build and need some advice on speccing the ideal components before purchase - I want the best possible system available with reliability / redundancy built in using the best components, not the cheapest. Using 1480 DVI card.

Possibly using Gigabyte GA-8I945P-G RH M-board and aiming at over 1TB storage.

Questions are;

OS setup on RAID 1 / Data store setup on RAID (probably 5) any advice? Would I be better using a RAID Card?

Processor: was going to use LGA775 3.0G(630) (Socket T) HT –

Would I be better or worse off with a dual core instead?

Graphics: read the ATI X300 is the way to go - is this the best solution or just a cost effective one?

If funds are not an issue, what’s the best card for this system?

HDD: WD enterprise drives for OS & storage

Memory: 1Gig Dual channel DDR2 667 (twin matched pair Corsair)

PSU: yet to select but would prefer a modular / cable management type

Finally, would I just be better getting a GV Hot swap pre built system? Can you get them in the UK?

Thanx for any advice

thanks for the pointers Rory & James

Problem is though, The Asus board I am planning to use is AGP8 and not a PCI express, could you advise a suitable route to go here; is there an AGP type you'd recommend? or should I be using a more modern mobo / processor and Graphics card for the 1480 card?

Questions are; Is it the 2D or 3D performance that's important to the GV1480? is it the 128Mb of memory that you feel is lacking or something else? if it's only that I'd prefer a 256Mb Parhelia over anything else. The parhelia is wicked by the way and is currently working in surround mode (3 monitors) with Direct X 9.0; and offers DualHead up to 2048 x 1536 per display; Dual-DVI up to 1920 x 1200 per display; Advanced multi-display output modes: - Dual-display plus TV output - TripleHead Desktop Mode

In the Parhelia's defence; I love it; its multi award winning in the Pro world, has Dual 400 MHZ 10-bit RAMDACs; it's 512bit memory bus means it is capable of transferring data at a whopping 20Gbps, also haven't yet seen another GPU that can be as accurate in colour representation than the Parhelia as yet, i.e. 10bit gigacolour output, so it can display more than one billion colours with 10bit precision, seriously for those perfectionists out there with a need for high + accurate image & colour requirements you should check this out http://www.matrox.com/graphics/workstation/cre_pro/products/parhelia/128mb.cfm)

So to stop blathering...Sorry..will the parhelia spec work or not? Rather than me having to purchase and install a new Mobo & Gr Card too (that wont give me the accuracy of colour I currently have) for the Combo 1480 (I want max results and highest resolution possible) should I be be getting a new Mobo with PCI express? This would also mean new Processor too etc + additional cost, help!!!!!!

Freeflyer

Thanks Aaardie

Hey James@EZCCTV, did you get my PM? I haven't received your reply to my last message asking for costs, please advise…

To clarify, we are a technology Company that are now considering getting involved in PC based CCTV for our existing clients after receiving many enquiries for this service; We are setting up a GV 1480 test system with 12 cams (Mostly Extreme CCTV IDN cams) for Research & development before offering this service out to clients and therefore looking for a UK based (legitimate) Geo distributor that is;

A) Interested in the business

B) Can offer a bit of technical support if required while we get our heads into it

C) NOTE: We are not interested in building boxes ourselves but would require warranty for ones that we purchase

I am also interested in the costs associated with the following Geovision kit;

1. Geovision GV Mini DVR (1120M & 1240M)

2. Geovision GV DVR (1120S; 1240S &1480S)

3. GV 1480 & 1240 cards

4. Geovision GV System (Hot Swap) 1120H; 1240H &1480H

5. Geovision GV NVR System

6. GV-IO Input / Output Module

7. GV-Relay

look forward to hearing from you, PM's accepted

Due to the overwhelming response to this post, I have decided to build myself,

I wanted a prebuilt to allow me to have support for the box with same day response as a backup if the machine went down; for anyone interested here is the response I received from Geovision technical regarding my original post: (Note; I posted one technical question via their site and got 4 helpful responses within 2 days)

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail to GeoVision and please know your e-mail will be followed up by GeoVision Technical Support.

For your question concerning hardware specification; it is possible to use Intel Dual core process like Pentium D, but it is not possible to use Intel Xeon processor for they are server type motherboards.

For your request of information on best process and chipset to be used with our GV1480 card, please simply refer to the suggested PC specification list attached to this e-mail.

I have just built a new box with Asus P4C800 E Deluxe Mobo; P4 3.0G proc - 1 Gig Corsair Twin X pro; 2 X WD Raptor on Raid 0 (May change to Raid 1) + additional storage drives; SCSI card for Tape and exterior backup rack; 128 Mb Parhelia Graphics card;Globalwin Sapphire super silent PSU, under load testing now; always interested in comments...

I will be keeping an install / history log book of the entire set up & install from start to finish of the GV1480 & Extreme CCTV cams install - from a NEWB's pont of view, happy to post this for anyone interested when I have completed the job

Thanx to all at this forum for the help so far, like I read once from Rory, "geo's like crack once you get started" here goes...[/b]

Hi All

Just about to purchase some Geo kit in the UK and was looking for some personal recommendations from previous customers of legitimate UK suppliers, preferably ones that can supply from the list below;

Good Technical support is a must. I also want to know the current costs of the following items;

GV Mini DVR (1120M & 1240M)

GV DVR (1120S; 1240S &1480S)

GV 1480 & 1240 cards

GV System (Hot Swap) 1120H; 1240H &1480H

GV NVR System

Thanx for all replies

Hi - Setting up a Geo 1480 server ina Dell Power edge server, need advice on the best Intel processor/s to choose from the list below that are currently available; We will be running 12 to 16 cameras at highest resolution & recording full time.

What will give me what we need from:

Single Xeon

Dual Xeon (at no extra cost!)

Pentium D (Dual Core) 820; 830; 840; 920; 930 or 950 (I don’t think these have hyperthreading)

Dell has an offer on next few days giving free upgrade on dual core Pentium D and Intel Xeons or a free additional Xeon on the Poweredge 1800; I’d rather have more power than I actually need for future expansion.

I have two days to decide, Thanx very much for any advice and such a great forum

Freeflyer

Hi

I am setting up a Geo 1480 system and have got lost , I want to incorporate the GV system to allow me to be able to (subject to movement in certain areas)

1) set off an alarm system

2) set off an audible alarm (that is not via the PC speakers)

3) open electric gates

4) switch on lights

Is this possible using a geo I/O card? If so, which one/s do I need?

Can the movement that triggers these signals be from a cameras motion detector & be performed via the Geo software system or will I need additional PIR sensors to allow this?

Also, if I want to send the TV out to a distribution unit ( 1 in 4 out) is the TV out coax or S video? thanx

Thanx in advance for your help

Hi Securitymaster & Rory

EX80’s & EX38’S are approx 15m from property & cable runs are approx 20 to 25 metres (80 feet) end to end. I have not run cables for the WizKids yet which will have runs of approx 60 feet. NVT module selection at cam end was up to me so this is flexible around my requirements I guess, but I was looking at the NV-216A-PV (new model that allows power via the NVT too)

One of my problems was that the NVT spec sheets only offer info on 24V AC - I only have experience with 12V DC (UK base) so was aiming to use this. I have not ordered any of the kit yet so am open to any power solution that can be plugged into UK mains (240V) and fit within regs. Was aiming to use Dantech multi PSU kit.

As I am not a pro like you guys, I guess the best route for me is the one with the easiest install that offers the least amount of issues or possible problems, I just don’t have the experience to be able to do trial & error or come up with the right answers if it doesn’t work early on, but I am eager to do this install myself and learn on the job.

All internal cabling has to be hidden and with the property being 350+ years old this isn’t easy, so I went for UTP to make this easier to hide. On the exterior I do not have the option of cable burial.

I had a boom lift at the property for a week for renovations to the roof and decided to run the UTP Cat5e on catenary wire while I was up there hoping it would suffice, I am open to changing this and re running cables as I want the best (& most reliable) solution for this system.

So in a nutshell, I guess I need some help on the following (bearing in mind I am a relative newb)

What is the best route forward with cabling for power & video for the IDN cams that allows me to run from property at height via catenary wire to cams locations (It needs to be as unnoticeable as possible)?

As the cabling will be suspended at height rather than buried, what type do I need? i.e. UV protected etc?

What type of termination would you recommend?

Which way should I be going regards Power supply to cams? Is 12V DC OK? (I am sure in the UK exterior has to be low voltage) Again open to all advice.

Should I / Do I need to be using NVT kit; I want quality images & the most reliable solution so am happy to pay the extra for it. Maybe moving locations in the mid to long term and future runs will no doubt be longer anyway.

Sorry about the length of post folks-

Thanx - freeflyer

Thanx again for your help Rory, I guess I owe you a beer or three!

I have talked to Derwent UK (who explained that I could have the Cams supplied with NVT fitted) after I explained that I aim to use UTP, the chap said this would be fine, but with all due respect to him, he's Derwent rather than Extreme and isn't the man on the ground actually installing this equipment like you do.

Note: (1) I cannot put the cams on the property itself as it is Grade II Listed (i.e. historically important and therefore the authorities don't let you even fart in it without a whole heap of paperwork & permissions) they will not allow cams on the building so I need the cams strategically placed off the building itself and need to run power down the same cable as video to minimise the noticability of the cabling.

(2) I am sold on Extreme IDN for the task at hand and feel they are the only option for what we need

(3) The UTP has been run already on catenary wire from the top floor of the property to the cam locations at 8 to 10 metre height and placed in galvanised conduit at entry to the property & anywhere that can be reached by a ladder to protect cable & prevent cutting.

I would really like to not have to re run these cables but am prepared to do so if it is impossible to avoid, does it look like Siamese / combination is required?

Thanx Tom

I've decided to not go Small Form for that very reason (Heat), I do however still prefer the more silent options available, so will no doubt just use silent fans + PSU's & add heatsinks to dissipate heat where possible, there are some cracking cases available on the market now that offer near silent performance, I'm just building a new Vapochill XS system for my (non DVR) performance PC, will be quieter than a lady's fart when it's finished and it chills the processor to -25C so can easily (& radically) be overclocked - extra oomph for free i say

regards - Freeflyer

Did I say something wrong here? plenty of views & no replies, was this a bad idea or did I break ettiquette or something? all advice gratefully received, we all have to start at the beginning don't we?

I can take the medicine if you tell me whats wrong first doctor...

Hi

Installing a system using UTP (Cat5e) for the first time (cables already run) and will be using the UTP for power (12V DC) as well as video signal. Cams (6 of) will have NVT modules already fitted & are all located (Exterior) 15 to 30 metres away from building where DVR is located & power will be supplied from.

I need advice on what NVT kit to use at the DVR end that will allow me to use RJ45 connectors on the power out / video receive end and deal with both. I’d prefer the minimum amount of equipment to perform the task of power & video signal from the same location.

Question 1; Is there an NVT device, hub or patch panel that I can connect the RJ45 from cams into that can deal with outputting the power & turning the video in channels into BNC for the DVR?

Question 2; Will I also need separate PSU’s to feed power into this NVT equipment?

Question 3; if answer to Q2 is Yes, is there a PSU box that can deal with various Amp outputs (2 X 2amp & 4 X 1 Amp) for all cams in one unit?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Other notes:

6 exterior cams, all away from building

Power supply & DVR (GV1480) based in building

Cams; IDN

2 X Extreme EX80 @ 2Amp each

2 x Extreme EX38 @ 1 Amp each

2 X WizKid WZ46ZN @ 1 Amp each