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Thanks for all of the tips! So is this theroy right? Max camera output is 1v peak to peak which can also be defined as 100IRE? So at .5 lux @ f1.2 30IRE would mean the camera is producing a signal 30% of peak at .5 lux with a fstop 1.2 lens? Also I contacted the DVR MFR and they said they need about 75IRE to get a good picture. Am I on the right page with this? Thanks

Hey, Thanks for the replys. This is a Kodicom based dvr mfr is GNS (www.gnsdvr.com)it is a 30fps unit, the mfr allready had me try to adjust the master level on the kodicom card, which just made things worse. I am right there with you guys on the B/W thing, we even tossed up a b/w dome and it looked awesome. But, the customer swears up and down the color will work and it should work, I am about ready to burn the contract. I ordered a CM-1 to check the video levels coming off of the camreas, I am just curious. Because of this ordeal, I have ordered about 7 differrent cameras here is what is in the test lineup: GE-XP1 (Allready looked at it, dosent help) Everfocus EH350HQ (Still not good) GE 840CE (Unit ADI sent is damaged getting replaced) Sony SSC-E437 (Looks awesome in good light, crapy in low light) here is the kicker there is a camera I saw in a trade mag listed as being "magic" its a ViZionCAM 0405-38156, here is some info on it: 1. It by far works in the lowest light of any camera I have seen 2. It feels very "cheap" its about 1/10 of the weight of any pro mount camera 3. As the light gets lower the pircure looks good (grain wise) but after a bit you can see vertical bars in the picture. When I get some time next week I am going to toss these up on the test DVR and get some screen caps and post them for you guys to see. Thanks again

B&W Cameras look fine at night there is a very small amount of noise. On a standard monitor even the color pictures are somewhat acceptable. Just once it hits the DVR it looks very bad. We are using GEM electronics compression connectors, and smartwire RG59.

Here is an update on this soap opra if anyone is interested: Here is what I have checked: Basics that I know of: Voltage ~ 24.5 to 26.7 at the cameras Power draw: 3.5 amps on a 7 amp system Impedance: 74-77 ohms We hooked up the remote viewing monitor output to scroll through the cameras in the bar area, oddly enough they look alot better than whats on the DVR's display. According to the DVR mfr. the remote monitor takes much less signal to drive it than the D/A converter in the DVR. So this means we have a level problem? Any way to troubleshoot this? A camera master CM-1? Or is this also a result of low light? Thanks Steve

Hi, I contacted northern they seem really nice, sending me out some info so ill check them out thanks!!

I forgot some information about our company, I have been in low voltage security for 10 years, we are mostly a Burg/Fire company who thinks we can do CCTV, for the most part we are not experts with CCTV and for some reason I cant convinse the owner of this.. So since he insists on selling CCTV I am trying to do the best I can with learning the product, terms, in & outs. Now he wants to sell central vac systems ARGH!!! Thanks Again Steve

Thanks, We are currently purchasing from ADI and there system design people have screwed us into a non returnable product a few times allready.

Thank you for the replies, I guess I have 2 issues, 1 I am trying to make this not an issue in the future and the main salesman is the owner of the company who thinks he knows everything, so the light meter click the button and read the meter and compare it to a minimum number that I set. 2 The install I am referencing, this guy is totally insane IMHO (the customer) as soon as I set one of these up on a test monitor I knew we should use black and white. He refused, you sold me color, (I was not the salesmen on this ime) he said, I offered a credit and a switch to black and white I showed him a black and white image "that's not what I am looking for I cant figure out who is who without the color" pleasing this customer is like trying to hit a moving target blindfolded. " I saw this camera on CSI why cant mine look like this.... I went to 7-11 and there cameras looked like a TV picture..." etc.. bottom line with this guy is you cant see 5ft in front of you (ok that's an a fib but you cant see 10 ft in front of you.) in this bar. How in the hell is a color camera going to? here is the product we have installed: Gantz ZC-D6039NHA 1.0 lux f 1.2 @ 50IRE .5 lux f1.2 @ 30IRE The dome has a build in f1.2 lens I also threw in a GE XP1 WDR camera with a f1.0 lens which looked better but still very grainy. The 2 other interesting things I have noticed with this job: 1. The Kodicom DVR seems to make the problem more obvious than the test monitor. at 30 FPS it looks better but the system is over taxed and the cameras are recording at 3fps seems to make the grain look more noticeable. 2. The LCD monitor on the DVR, my partner and I noticed that the picture looks slightly better with a CRT monitor rather than an LCD. Ultimately we should have never spec ed color for this bar, but we are here now, and screwed. I am trying to learn as much as possible from this job so we do not re-create this again. I tried to adjust the iris level on the dome camera but, I could get the picture a little brighter - then I got snow. Other problem I have with this guy is he keeps chainging something with the lights there. At one point the cameras were looking halfway decent (still way unaccpetable) then 2 days later they look like complete garbage. Thank god we used B/W for the outside cameras. On a side note, what do you guys think about the camera master CM1 to make sure we are getting proper levels from the camera? Thanks again I have been learning a lot from the forum. Steve

Hi, We are currently using Kodicom products purchased through a kodicom dealer. We are wondering if we are better off with a different product or something that we can build ourselves. We have a large amount of IT experience. Any suggestions? Steve

Hi, We have recently run into a problem at a job, we have color cameras with a heavy bluish-black grain. We suspect the problem is light, this is a very dark bar with dark colored carpet and walls and basically just direct light on the bar area and pool tables. My question is if I order a lux meter and issue it to a salesman if we are comfortable with the performance characteristics of our camera (regarding to listed light requirement ex .5 lux). if the salesperson takes a reading and if it is less than .5 lux we will know that this camera will not work in the environment right? Is there something I am missing with this scenario? How have you guys been determining if a location has adequate lighting? Thanks Steve

Hi, My company is looking at a new line of cameras, I have a few questions: 1. Would it be a good idea to standardize on 1 manufacturer ie. GE or JVC 2. What are some of the better camera mfr's? We have been using ganz and everfocus the everfocus is ok, so far I have been very unhappy with ganz. Thanks Steve

I contacted Kodicom directly (that was a fun phone call) they indicated that there is/was (at that time, about 4 months ago) only 1 authorized Kodicom dealer in the US, That dealer was listed as GNS.

Hi, The everfocus units my company evaluated for selling, we found that the remote access software was VERY buggy.