surf1div1

Because some of us simply don't see promoting the cam location as a "deterrent". The druggies will mask/hoodie their face of they see them.I'm unclinded to SIT my own as the premium that sellers are asking is ridiculous.

Thanks Rory for your feedback- while reviewing some of the posts here on the PC based, is there a combo (intel board/processor/ram/PS) you would recommend with the current variations out there? Since I already have a computer for use at home, in consideration of using a PC based footprint, I would love to know the specs you would current suggest- ok, in the context of a home application, currently set for 5 to 8 cameras, and which DVR card you would recommend. My current option is going with a four camera Dedicated Micro ECH 4 with a price of $675 (will check out the higher channel one depending on cost), and while putting together a PC system is obviously more costly, possibly a PC based unit might make better sense. Optimally I would like to do this as well on my home LAN so that I can view from work what is happening at home (I currently have a dynamic DSL line and am aware that the DM unit is only Static) but have talked to one person on the board who suggested the Nuvico DV3 (Howard, still haven't received your feedback )

While I'm confident about adding a card (I've added drives, and cards, etc with computers as far as adding things short of changing out the motherboard/processor) I think that it would help for the end users if anyone can recommend for those of us doing this what to get. I've read the threads on hardware vs software based issues on the processor, and also have considered the Geovision cards, but am wondering if I'm going for the stability (and avoiding the Via chips-which the AMD's tend to go with) and do prefer AMD. I know that as it's been posted that the budget cards are compatable with them, but wonder why none of the AMD computers have been used when you get more bang for the buck with AMD. Also, is the Dual Core processors and hyperthreading still the way to go? Whew....

One thing that PC based does have over Stand Alones is Higher Quality Evidence Sharing (even comparing to the best standalones in the world) and Faster Recording Speeds at Higher Quality (640x480 @ 30fps per camera). Ofcourse this is dependent on the Card and Software used. The PC based version you use will vary in features depending on the model purchased ..

 

Basically if you are confidently PC literate and can do some work with Computer hardware, that maybe the way you want to go, if not, stick to a standalone or you may get lost if it ever needs service. There are budget versions of each, mid versions, high end, etc .. see what your budget is first and what is available in your area, or wherever it is you are searching for one.

Hi - not seeing a response to my most recent post on the car vandalism I thought I would see your thoughts on what's happening. Through work, I met someone that does this for a living commercially and has stopped by and is willing to install a system. He's talked me into instead of bullets vandal proof domes and have seen recently feedback the Nuvicos and know some have used these cams there appears to be some feedback on them, but also, from Jasper's posts some partiality insinuated by someone that is pushing them it 'appears'. But Howard from Spytown says there good, and the design guy loves them, so while I know your fine with Wiz, thought I would see if you would approach the use of the Nuvico since after seeing how the dome would be so recessed under the eaves of my home that the stealth aspect I'm looking for might very well work, what your feedback is. Optimally this should be a true Day/Night, with a IR Cut, and be able to cover the area. What I"M thinking is that the two one mounted on the front of the garage one would be wider focus (the left side covering the general aread, and the right side tight shot for ID whoever would vandalise the van, and back on the backyard facing the street and mounted on the right side, a wider view facing the van but also the approach from the other side. Total is 5 cams- two front, one rear right side facing street, backyard (where the dog is and not recorded, but could be monitored) and the back rear left side facing the side yard to the front of the house . This way everything is covered on the house and recorded. Here are the parts so far: Nuvico Easy View Day Night Dome- CV- SD series, Dedicated Micros Stand alone ECO4, Channel Plus RF Modulator, Lockbox with four fans ,power supply, cable, switches for about $1910 parts and $350 labor. Your thoughts?

I guess this is as good a place to 'catch-up' as any. Well, got a call from the Ventura County Public Defender (guess why it appears our vandal who has had this warrant for his arrest since last year ended up in Jail and now the PD wants to see if I'll consider a "civil compromise" i.e. pay me off and I'll go away. Well, as any of you have guessed by now that isn't going to happen. Which brings me up to today- the Court Arraignment is next Wed. the 20'th and he'll find out that I'm not going for it and will probably trade in the freebee attorney once he finds out this is going to trial. So, in anticipation of this date, I'm now forced to move a little quicker now that I'll be appearing in court and seeing the same kind of garbage (vandalism- just a different operator I suspect) after pursuing a criminal conviction on this idiot. Which brings me back to here. A guy at work who does this for a living is working up a proposal, and were looking at a 4 camera DVR (or possibly a dedicated computer system like Tom's) but while he was checking out the area, he came up with this camera that they purchased a bunch of and because they got a 'great deal' on wanted to apply it to what I'm looking at- thus this post. Here is what he's thinking of installing: WV-NW474S by Panasonic. Not seeing this cam mentioned here and googling around see that it's a hybrid of which I'm not seeing the benefit for what I'm intending to use it for. Since this dome can be recessed into the area above the garage door, I believe this will be ok as far as discreet. So, I'm back- looking for feedback. In any case, I may be posting this too early since I still don't have a DVR set-up that he's going to go with, but seeing that the camera that he's thinking of is IP thought I would see what the plus's and less then that are for this application. I don't care what a great deal of a camera it is if it's not going to do the job- namely ID the next go round with these bozo's who've lost before and don't want to take for granted that they might of gotten some education with the local criminal justice system since these types aren't the sharpest heads in the gene pool (like the one that posted about my parking lot in front of my house- had to laugh and sorry that I couldn't respond, but that was too funny- maybe their related ;-0 ...in any case, thought I would run this by you guys for the continuing saga of vandals getting their comeuppance...also Rory, my wife is talking me into getting rid of our boat that is in the garage and parking that van in the garage (the blue one that is across the street) so the depth of field that we were discussing prior may not be an issue, and what I would probably want is something that cover the immediate area all around the house covered. Not sure how that would change things, but this 'project' is dynamic and because of this change thought I would 'mention' it. BTW, "sick of my neighbor" if you could, skip this thread for your input- and as alway thanks for al the input from those pro's out there that have been good enough to share your feeback.

Surf1div1

Hi,

Need some help to address some vandalism that has happened to my van which is parked across the street. Because of the mailbox in front of my house, I can't keep the car parked anywhere but where it is. Here is the web address for reference:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum

 

From my southwest corner of my house (most accessible for a camera) to where the car is about 70'. I have a flood light that comes on when you approach the house, but obviously that won't help "spotlighting" the Van(it's the blue one) across the way. I would prefer a b/w high res varifocal that is very discreet for two purposes-don't tip of whoever is destroying the car, and second to keep the house from looking like were drug dealers. For this reason I'm partial to a bullet- but have considered a dome. Problem is that they would be mounted under the garage eaves and the underside is stucco-not sure of how easy it would be to mount any of them. If there's advantages to the dome, then I'll consider them, but the less obtrusive the better. Also, the camera would be facing the Southwest, and afternoon light would be hitting it. I have a motorhome in the front driveway, and would like to keep the house covered so would be using another camera on the Southeast corner of the house as well. Those are the main cameras. Also, I'm planning on installing a camera under the eave just to the right of the door entrance (see picture). I could place possibly a dome if there's an advantage, but looking for suggestions as to what to get. The entrace kind of faces another home and I've included in the website address a drawing of the layout with measurements of the house and pertinent details. Also, I have the back/sideyards that I would like to cover but there not as critical at this point. My focus is on quality for equipment, and would need a minimum of four cameras, but possibly more. Budget wise I 'm open- I would prefer to stay within $1,000 for four cameras, but depending on what I would trade off, would consider more(like the southwest camera having a zoom feature). Re: the pictures- First picture is a drawing of the house, second picture is across the stree-motorhome in front and looking at the house, right side is the Southeast corner, left southwest corner. As you can see, if I try and mount the cameras from the second floor eaves I don't have coverage of what's happening in the driveway. The third picture is from the southwest corner facing the street with the van I'm trying to cover across from it (in blue). Fourth picture is from eave above house looking out from that office window above the garage. Fifth picture is from southeast side of house off the driveway facing street on the otherside of the motorhome. There's other shots of various shots from on top of the garage facing the entrance, and back/sideyards.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Arnold

Well, from my limited knowledge, it appears it's pretty easy to get decent shots from an indoor cam, but those fishbowl shots of day/night on that intellicam wouldn't cut it for me except for general monitoring, which is why I guess your using that, but you got a great shot with that 50 MM one to the point of being able to ID the car license plate. Boy, this thread has really taken on a life of it's own though....thanks for you input!

I agree with Rory, go with a Geovision two camera input card. I have a GV-800-4, 30fps on each channel, and it is more than I need. But after having my car broken into so many times... I wanted the best I could get.

 

My setup

1- main entrance. I just replaced the cheap color dome with a nice B/W I got in a gamble on ebay. (Really... buying on ebay is a gamble. Sometimes you get good, other times you get the shaft). An old box style Philips LTC 0330/21 B/W with a 3.5-8mm auto-iris lense Personally I was dissapointed I'd be loosing color and going to B/W, but I get much better resolution and night vision than I ever did with the cheap color.

 

 

2. My play room where all the computers, guns, and financial documents are. Enter this room, and I've got you twice on camera, and most importantly, I can see exactly what you've messed with.

 

3. Parking lot general view. This is the Intellicam ACD-200N which is color and b/w switching. I park right below it so I can see general activity near my car. I hid it in a plant, and on some of the videos you can see the window ledge... an indication that I haven't gotten around to repositioning it yet.

 

 

 

4. What good is the general view if you can't make out a way for the cops to track the suspects? Thats why I have a parking lot entrance view as well! I have moderately priced box camera with a 50mm zoom lense aimed at the center of the closer parking lot entrance. Unfortunately the other entrance, accross the lot is not covered, but I figure the criminal will loop through the parking lot rather than turn around.

 

Hi Rory- Long time no posts...so let's catch up I'll post from within...

you could look for a BW board camera, fit it inside a custom weaherproof housing, and use up to a 16mm fixed micro lens.

 

A long time friend of mine suggested the same (we've been out of touch for years, and found out that in addition to doing alarms he does CCTV- the problem is that he lives too far to install it for me, but thinks I could possibly do it myself based on me helping him with the alarm we put in my previous house. But at least he's offered pricing on the wholesale side which is a help- just need to pick the equipement....

 

Typically for outdoors Bullet cams are as discreet as I go, next to a Vandal Dome. You could also use an empty gang box, you can buy them with a glass plate or make your own, protect it under an eave or something and caulk it good. Put the camera in there, i did that once for someone using a small mini camera with a pinhole lens. They sell them ready made such as Provideo or GE, but those are made for indoors.

 

I'm game- now if I go bullet- do they make white houseing to blend in with the home (someone suggested 'painting them' LOL - I can just see it- opps, the lends got coated Since you last posted this, I notice that your recommending this: http://www.extremecctv.com/products.php?producttype_id=10 The problem is that it's silver for the housing

 

 

Optionally another discreet camera is the Extreme CCTV EX45. Its a mini weathersealed dome and I would suggest the 16mm lens (the max) and use a Dome Insert to hide the camera guts. It cane be wall mounted or ceiling mounted. Its also vandal resistant.

 

What is a dome insert? The concern I have this the dome is installing it in the stucco and under the eave. I would optimally like to recess it so that there's little exposure to anything. Also, with the stucco being from what I understand a 3/4" of stucco to get to the cavity behind it. Since I've been told that the cavity is only the depth of a 2 X 4 (3.250)? is that enough to place a dome?

 

BTW, the do it yourself Home theatre install was long- getting the holes cut through the studs to conceal the wire channel in the walls (the Plasma is above the fireplace (no I don't use it) and didn't want any wires showing. Not to mention the HDMI cable issues of compatability between the DVD player , and My Panasonic TV. A nightmare as the LG was a hassle to deal with. But the end product was well worth it. Now on to my procrastination on the CCTV. Bear with- I'm hoping by the time I finally do this, there's equipment that will do what I'm looking for.

 

Thanks in advance.

Hi Cooperman, and thanks for your suggestions...I'm in the middle of project (mounting a plasma above the fireplace and looking for the blocking/studs behind the drywall- UGG) but wanted to reference the page of the pictures of the house here:

http://spaces.msn.com/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c02_owner=1&_c=

On the page, just reference the photos under "Surf1div1" and under "Patches" , reference the other photo album- you'll see one called home exterior. There are a few shots- but the blue van is now where the Camper was- in other words by the fire hydrant.

Arnold

There are many ways of hiding a camera, and generally the most successful are custom disguised for a particular situation.

Without seeing the house, I'm really just guessing blind

Your right Cooperman-it is,but now that I moved it further east- i.e. more in line with the front of the house- it's probably now 65'- but at that distance, I doubt that it would change the lens enough since the point is to have enough 'scope' to id whoever is doing it (we know, but now we want to be able to confirm it and "catch them in the act" for posterity . Now, I would be consistent if I didn't leave with something here, so here goes- I've asked this before, but you've raised it with your last comment- as Rory as so gracisouly pointed out different setup's is there something that can be a covert with that range- am I assuming not? If no, then what do the pros do where someone like me want's it covert but then needs a big lens to zoom in without it? Is it possible to get a lens that is fixed but in a bullet with the kinds of lens you've referenced? As far as light- I'll have to change out the 100 watt bulb on the one front UNLESS there's a way to use the IR but with a photocell, and only with motion detection. Do you guys have a way to work the IR (yes Rory, I really don't want IR, but if it will be only come on with motion detection, then possibly it would work) but it just seems like something else to be dependent on that could break, etc. I think what I want they just don't make- namely a small footprint, without IR, a low enough lux rating to work and virtually invisible to all but those who know it's there. As an example- just got back from "Coldstone Creamery" and above the cash register was a 'lipstick' cam- so discrete you hardly notice it. Sure the FOV is only what 5' but I'm thinking with the technology that exists we could put it together. BTW- I like the latter- 16MM for the width.

Thanks-

Arnold

I vaguely remember a figure of 70 feet distance being mentioned earlier on. If the vehicle is parked at that distance from the camera, I agree with rory that perhaps a 25mm fixed lens would be the lens of choice for a 1/3" format camera.

 

At that distance, a 6 footer should occupy about 60% of the picture height, and a 13 - 14' long vehicle will probably fill the screen (no idea how long your vehicles are stateside). If you need more width, then a 16mm will be the obvious choice (about 20' width at 70 feet distance).

 

If you go for a very sensitive camera, then a decent tungsten halogen light source should throw out more than enough light to produce a decent image at that distance (in B/W mode).

 

Keep the camera covert though, for all the reasons mentioned so far.

Hi Jasper-

I'm going to answer within your response...

Sounds like you are really determined to get these people on camera so you’re going to have to throw more money at the problem. In your first post you mentioned $1000 for 4 cameras. This could be adequate if you were not trying to solve this problem at the same time.

 

OK- tell me if this is more realistic: for hardware, camera's and PC DVR for around 3K. This amounts to one high end day/night cam, four bullet cams that are decent quality and the PC DVR that Tom's associated with- yes, that's a good 3X the budget Jasper, but I'm not sure where the 1K quote came from- possibly from just four decent cams.

 

 

You are going to need some strong IR to reach the van and illuminate that area enough to capture a person on video. So maybe what you should do is temporarily use your cameras to eliminate this problem then return them to their intended permanent mounting positions. Otherwise I see you are going to have to spend more money.

 

Don't want IR- I would rather go for a higher end camera then deal with that or use motion detector to illuminate the area with the floodlights if needed.

 

Strong IR is not cheap. You will need a camera zoomed in on the van to allow ID of a persons face. Another camera or two with wide angle lens in order to see where they are coming from and going to, just as was described in the previous post.

 

It sounds like you really just want to get these guys. Are you willing to pay the price though? You can get them, but it will cost you for the equipment. And if you do get them will there be retaliation if you prosecute them? Is the damage they are inflicting really worth it? These are all questions you have to ask yourself.

 

They've been arrested- once- warrant out and no retaaliation- yet. But that is what the cameras will be for- if and when they decide to do what they're going to do, now I'll have a record of it. Yes, I've already prosecuted- one has an outstanding warrant out for him. Damage worth it? Well, either I let someone mess with me or I don't. Since I have to do this the legal way this is the route I'm taking- beside I have a family to care for and that peace of mind is worth it. Would I stop prosecuting as a result of intimidation- well, you don't know me- but suffice to say- NO.

 

Oh, the higher wattage bulb in your motion detector is probably not going to work as you would have to blind the drivers passing by in order to have strong enough light to illuminate the area accross the street?

 

The light would not blind- they're heading West/East- the light would be coming from the North. No blinding. IR I'm not sold on , yet I'll consider it but would prefer it to be motion activated- I believe that's an option, but those illuminators might be pricey- who know what those cost-

 

Anyway, thanks Jasper- I believe that it's worth it to me- I've been on this board for about a year, and I'm not going anywhere until I find what I'm looking for- I'm taking my time since this bozo hasn't been arrested yet- when he is, the warrant will mean I'm called into court and I'm going. Then I won't have any time. It will be one of those I need it NOW.

 

Arnold

[/quote

Hi Cache- man, would we love to catch these idiots...whenever I go to open the car, the alarm beeps three times letting me know that the alarm went off. Anyway, guess what- the guy that has been monopolizing that parking spot (the SUV parked in front of mine) wasn't there (after what- a year?) anyway, I pulled my van to within 10 feet of that fire hydrant. I plan on taking a picture if needed, but thought based on the previoius shot would I need IR based on the illumination that is currently available?

Arnold

I have a similiar problem as his van , parking across the street. In fact, the two times my neighbors' pickup was broken into, I had the hoodlums on video. Mainly, it was my Pelco b/w with the Exview CCD (of course the new IR LED's helped). I put my IR right on my neighbors' pickup, looked light daylight!! Helped to identify local (two blocks away) hoodlums. Look into an IR floodlight !!

Hi Jasper- good question- that was my other car parked in front on a weekend. The problem as your probably aware is that here, in Simi Valley, if your car is parked for over 3 days they ticket you. So I would end up moving it every 3 days- a hassle. The mailman you know would report it to make his job easier. I thought about it and the compromise is parking it acrsso the street. Rory- what are we talking about cost why for the Ex-View setup on this one camera? Is there a good day/night- since this camera is also covering the west side of my property, I would prefer the color during the day and b/w during the night. The issue you raise Rory is that to get ID that would REQUIRE a zoomed in feature. That presents another issue- I would lose coverage of my property(west) unless I mounted a second cam facing more west to cover that area, unless I go for one of those COVI cam's that woull me to zoom in that one part(the van) and still have coverage for the other parts that a normal cam would cover. The problem with that one is the additional expense of using their proprietary computer (Covi's)- I think possibly a duo cam for the west of the prop is going to have to be used to get decent coverage. Sure, you could use a high zoom, ex-view, b/w but than I'm losing coverage of whoever comes on to the property from the vest. As that beatle once said, "It ain't Easy". ;-0

In your pictures during the day somebody was parked in front of your mail box. Why can you just park there? The mail man can get out of his car can't he? Is there some type of law or something?

 

Then you can have your motion light come on. I had it setup that way. So what if the light comes on everytime somebody walks by the house. At least they know if they come on your property they will be lit up.

Hi Rory, and Jasper- actually it's the blue van you've zoomed in the prior shot- it's the one in navy inbetween the two cars. The first has some street lighting on it, and mine (in the middle) has almost none). It's a Ford Aerostar . Just behind it is the while truck your picking up (but only the front part of it. Distance from where the cam would be mounted to seeing "past " the car is about 70'.

that one will be tough without additional lighting.

 

here is the van:

 

Thanks Jasper for your feedback-I knew this was going to be a tough issue because of the distance from the house, and the inability to see both sides of the car. I was hoping that the ambient light would help with some of the better cams- from what your telling me it's going to be limited, but at leat I know my limitations. I was hoping that their is a cam though that would be able to ID someone if they did something. The last time they drove by and threw something through their window and hit the car- in that situation I'm not sure that a cam would of helped since the best I would of gotten was the car make. Possibly I should just right off the ability to even monitor the car, and focus on the house. The car, is only worth a couple of thousand dollars but has the utility which is why we keep it. As tough as it is to accpet, it may be that without a lot of resources in equipment for the one camera, it may behove me to just focus on the vehicles in the driveway(motorhome) and monitor the house up to the street level based on what your stating. I'm open- as I said, I don't mind investing in the right equipment for the one camera but it may be an issue if they do go behind the car to do their vandalism. Optimally the cams would be as discreet as possible. But, based on the mm needed to close in and ID them, it might also be VERY limited. I really appreciate the feedback everyone that has participated in this thread has given. You guys are to commended on helping out and supporting the end users like me.

Arnold

I can barely make out your van in that night shot. It is almost totally blended into the dark. Since it is dark it is not even able to reflect much light back towards a camera. At night you would need the lowest lux camera you can find unless you can get some high powered IR that will reach the van.

 

Then unless you are zoomed intot the scene you are not going to be able to identify the person, only know that someone messed with it. Also you are in the same situation that I was in by only being able to see one side of the van.

 

You are still going to have that blind spot and without the ability to identify the person you will only see a body coming up to the other side of the van, because I would assume they would avoid the street side anyway.

 

Tough application there.

))) Thanks Jasper- under photo's pick home exterior. That picture was my dog (recently deceased due to cancer). I'm pretty much going with the pc based for the DVR vs the standalone.

05 lux is a good rating for a camera in dimly lit areas, but not really dark. You would definitely need some type of illumination coming from somewhere in order to see your van. There is a big difference between .1 and .05 lux. I tried to look at your photos again,. But I saw a cute dog instead.

 

I don’t know what you and Thomas discussed, but he definitely can help you in regards to his recommendations to your situation.

Thanks Jasper- I see what you mean-

I wasn't aware of the that cam's rating. I was under the impression that this cam had the ability based on the specs. I'm a little confused though by your post as a result of possibly some misunderstanding on my part- I thought that o.05 was excellent and was described as being nearly pitch black. Thus the acceptance of this cam- I would rather have this kind of discussion though as I would hate to get the wrong product. The street lights on my block(the two closest) are far enough to only offer limited lighting (enought to barely cast a showdow of me on the street. I'm not telling anyone about the cams (as opposed to most that would probably state how this out there to discourage them from doing it in the firstflace) but know that the types of people that would vandalize someone are ones that would do as your situation shows- just do in a way to avoid being seen. Thus the search for a cam that will see them witha 70 FOV and small enough to be covert- currently it doesn't appear that there's anything made that does both without IR. As I stated in my recent post though- I would possibly just change the setting on my motion activated light to come on (at night since it's photocell activated like most) when movment is detected. The rub is that it would come on whenever a car comes by as opposed to someone coming by. BTW, as the intelligent software come out that is able to make the distinction of one from the other? I guess that is for another thread though.

Arnold

Arnold,

 

I don’t think that Panasonic dome camera would work out for you because it can only see down to 0.1 lux, which is not good. Something that is .06 lux or lower is better for viewing in dim light, such as a street light right across the street from your house. If very little light the lower the lux the better. Many places quote like .003 or .0003, which Is more likely foot candles (fc) then lux, so watch out for that.

 

I had a similar situation like yours some years back and the person knew where the camera was. I had a camera watching the front of my house a half of my van parked in my driveway. The person came to my house at night and stayed out of view of the camera. So my recording only showed my van slowly tilting to one side as both the tires on that side got slashed.

 

And then the next morning when I went outside I saw the whole side was also slashed with a knife. So if you are really want to try and catch this person make sure the camera(s) are small and you don’t tell anyone about them. Otherwise they will just avoid being seen on camera. My girlfriend at the time had told her ex-boyfriend where it was located so that is how I lost my element of covertness.

Hi Jasper-

What I would probably go with is the Setup that Thomas does for a PC based system (possibly Thomas would comment on that aspect as far as using different input's) but aside from that, I would prefer as I originally stated, a camera that will allow me to use it both day/night. You've brought up using a more sensitive lens to compensate for the nighttime vision. My goal is to have on the one camera that is monitoring the van across the street about a 70 FOV and ID whoever vandalizes it. Without IR . I could use (see pictures of the house) higher wattage light bulb in the motion detector light, and change the range of the motion detector to go on when somebody comes by it, but the problem is that this particular street that I'm on has quite a bit of traffic going through our neighborhood so that light would come on every t time a car comes by. That would be a compromise though to using IR all the time or some high-end cam that breaks the bank. Of all the cameras, this one would be the only expensive one needed (because of the fov) and the rest are just monitoring the immediate perimeter of the house (front FOV on the East side of the house to about 30') and the backyard has a motion detector light already and only needs about 20'. Entry to the house where I want to put the other has another motion detector light, which will cover the IR needs as well. So far, the Pano Day/Night is the only suggestion I've heard (with that Covi- from the same source who is no longer on this list but was pretty respected here) and wanted some additional product to ponder and research. I know that this is pretty academic on some ways, but once I narrow down the product I can go about procurement and installment. Thanks again to all of you-

Well I don’t know what DVR you intended to use, but if it was a Geovision or other card capable of scheduling then you could just use one input for the color camera and another one for the Black and white. That way you don’t need a 12x12â€

What have I gotten into?....I have to laugh- I'm completely lost, but thought I would respond so that between the two of you I make sense if this. It appears that cost of the best day-night camera would still not yeild the best of two seperate cameras- one color, the other b/w. So, the solution appears to be to mount seperate cam's and this is where the two of you lost me- one voltage is 12 and the other is 24, and then's theirs the design issue of dissapating the heat without allowing "critters" in.) I have to tell you, while I'm lost, I can't help feeling intrigued by the idea of something good coming out of it where the sum of the individual elements get's much more then the individual pieces together- cheap components that would yeild better performance then a high-end day/night. Is this correct? Thus my question about the Pano cam. In any case, I would love to stay with a great bullet that is small (remember, I want the stealth factor) and great results without it becoming to costly. Now, while this has probably transitioned beyond the DIY aspect I thought I would tackel, I'm game , if you guys get somewhere with this design, and the application working I would love to see if in fact it works as planned.

Arnold

Cool, yeah you can email me it and ill host it, or upload it to http://www.ihostphotos.com/

OK Rory, I like #1,and 2 for day, , but at night, there's absolutely nothing seen in #2. (btw, sorry folks for taking so long to respond, but I've been relocated to a new office/managment, yada yada yada . So, how do I get around that? Would this camera offer me more for the application(front of the house you'll recall has a FOV of 60' out): Panasonic WV-CW474AS to possibly see as well as the shot's you have here (as in shot #1 which is a OEM bullet?) It's night time shot appears to 'my' eyes the best. Consider the source What I want is the night view of #4, but the discrete aspect of # 1. Do they make that product , yet ))

Arnold

Hi Rory- Possibly you or Thomas can answer this

Your post here caught my attention while doing a search on a specific feature I'm interested in: VideoIQ.

While looking through the discussion on the merits of one vs the other, I'm a little confused- I'm sorry if this question appears ignorant, and I admit that I'm still learning about CCTV as your aware, but in viewing the GE site you've listed, I was trying to find this specific feature- intelligent software that would specifically reference human movement. This software claims about 95% accuracy (does anyone remember DragonSpeak ))

But this system that is referenced is a PC VideoIQ system that connects to their DVR. You need both units to use this feature. While this is a stand-alone system, it uses a PC - it's I guess a marriage of sorts between the two - standalone and PC.

This system also seems extremely costly to do what it appears a PC system could do if someone came up with the software that would do this- so Thomas, possibly you could shed some light on software that might do what this VideoIQ does?

Thanks in advance...

Surf1

updating ability of a PC Based system over embedded. Personally I like PC Based systems better, I like the ease of setup on most of them through mouse click menus. Most of them have the ability to have unlimited users each with his own password and associated priveleges such as ability to use a PTZ, or individual camera lockout and others

 

WaveReader has all of these features.

 

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=WaveReader&lang=en_US

http://www.geindustrial.com/ge-interlogix/kalatel/clearcast.html

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=VideoIQ&lang=en_US

http://www.geindustrial.com/ge-interlogix/facilitycommander/index.html

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=DVMRe_Triple&lang=en_US

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=DVMRe_Matrix&lang=en_US

My question is if as Rory as pointed out with the DVR issue, does it really make sense to invest in this equipment given the limitations of equipment?

I'm sorry that I can't say yes/no since you've raised this limitation, but since the manufacture doesn't even promote this for residential use (primarily it appears commercial- banking and education) what do those of you that install these in residential use see as an advantage to it?

Also,possibly over time the price as dropped- in the dome configuration, I found this available for less then $600.

Surf1

The down side to Covi is that it's going to be expensive. If you can get one for less then four figures I would be suprised.

 

Actually, I have already seen them for around 700 end user price.

Thank's Rory- Do you think I should get the whole thing, or from and end users standpoint what do you suggest?

While reviewing this site, I've also come across a couple of the same options- Stam and the LSI- My preference would be something like a DVD course(or CD) as opposed to the online course so that I could review it for future reference- I believe from a newbies standpoint- like me that it would be more beneficial. Also, the Stam course is only a 60 day license if I'm not mistaken- what happens when you want to review it? Also, if anyone no longer wants there course and is willing to sell theres- even if it's a couple of years old, I would be interested even though I don't do this for a living, I'm interested enough to look into the formal education you would take to learn it. I've tried Ebay, and Amazon but to date haven't found anything used. Also, I've looked into evening courses from the local community college but don't see anything out here in California. Hey, I'm even willing to apprentice for any of you Cali guys on a weekend just so that I can what it's about. I figure hands on is great, but would appreciate the opprotunity to learn what it's about- PM me if your interested- I'm in Ventura County. I'm not looking for work, just an education )

AL

Hi Rory and Thomas,

I haven't seen anything on your post since then, and was wondering what else you might of heard since this last post or if anyone else has any experience with these. I ask because I'm the process of looking at local installers in my area (Simi Valley, CA) and one of them suggested one of these for my vandalism issue (see my post). One of the things that was pointed out was the ability to use the zoom feature that is shown with three different shots below the general one. Almost , if I understand correctly like 'zoning' in the same way you would with motion detection, but in this case, the system allows you to show these zoomed in parts of the whole picture below the main picture. The way I understood this installer's presentation was that it was like having four different cameras in one housing. The Covi site references the application more for commercial use then residential but was wondering if this would be applicable to my application. In summary, has anyone had any experience with them (Axis , Covi, etc) and what have been the results with a residential use.

Surf1

Hi Rory, and thanks again for your continued support- I really appreicite this forum's patience for those of us end users really trying to get as much feedback as we can prior to putting this together.

OK- so, based on your feedback, that won't work- I really am trying to stay away from the IR. One, there's the additional issue of where to put it which in order to reach 75' I'm anticipating a whole lot of LED's and the glow that comes with it. Candidly, I would rather not try and do this on the cheap/budget. Though, my wife is saying that the car just isn't worth spending a lot of money in equipment to deal with this. I've tried relocating the car in front of the mailbox, but it is a hassle (mail-man, parking my other car (I need to get rid of that RV, but the wife likes her 'comforts')

Given my druthers, can you contrast some model #'s you would suggest, and possibly suppliers here that you or anyone else would support for the camera's your suggesting.

Also, some Day/Night 1/2' you would consider. Since I'm getting it in my head (ok, for tonght I am) that a bullet won't cut it, i DON"T want a box camera(discreet goes out the window) which brings us to either the Wiz Kid or the Extreme in a Dome- what is the difference in cost?

Whew...thanks Rory-

Surf1

Hi Rory, I thought what I would do is take a shot with my Minolta without the flash- Based on the picture here, would a camera like this work:

http://www.cctvspecialty.com/1soexcobuca.html

It is a Bulltet day/night by Sony 1/3" with the Ex-View but instead of the standard lens, using one like your suggesting- possibly a varifocal 3-12MM.

Here is the webpage of the street for you to check out:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum

As you can see I'm still trying for that stealth factor and low profile. I'm curious if the dome by wiz kid would do it and do you feel that Dome's would be better then the bullet that I've listed above. If you could contrast the advantages for the dome vs. a camera like the one above. Thanks again.

You will want something like a 12mm lens, or a varifocal 3-12mm. A 5-50mm would be better for identifying the criminal but then you are talking money (as you could zoom right in on the van like 20mm), and will also require extra lighing in the Van, or IR, as when you zoom the lens in close, it will get darker, requiring more light.

 

If the lighting level is low, and you cant use IR, then you would at least need an Exview type BW camera. Not easy to find in anything but a Box camera, without a decent varifocal lens. Ofcourse then its not discreet anymore.

 

Optionally you could find a Mini BW Weather resistant Dome, and use a 16mm fixed lens. WizKId has these, though the Extreme EX45SX.3xxbh LXR version is a lower lux chip, much like the Exview. The EX45 isnt cheap though, but you will want either Exview or in the Extreme case, LXR. The WizKid BW WZ30 dome is pretty inexpensive however, and comes in that white housing.

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

http://www.extremecctv.com/products/index.cfm?img=19

 

Ofcourse no guarantee you will see anything unless you add more light.

 

Rory