surf1div1

Because some of us simply don't see promoting the cam location as a "deterrent". The druggies will mask/hoodie their face of they see them.I'm unclinded to SIT my own as the premium that sellers are asking is ridiculous.

Thanks Rory for your feedback- while reviewing some of the posts here on the PC based, is there a combo (intel board/processor/ram/PS) you would recommend with the current variations out there? Since I already have a computer for use at home, in consideration of using a PC based footprint, I would love to know the specs you would current suggest- ok, in the context of a home application, currently set for 5 to 8 cameras, and which DVR card you would recommend. My current option is going with a four camera Dedicated Micro ECH 4 with a price of $675 (will check out the higher channel one depending on cost), and while putting together a PC system is obviously more costly, possibly a PC based unit might make better sense. Optimally I would like to do this as well on my home LAN so that I can view from work what is happening at home (I currently have a dynamic DSL line and am aware that the DM unit is only Static) but have talked to one person on the board who suggested the Nuvico DV3 (Howard, still haven't received your feedback ) While I'm confident about adding a card (I've added drives, and cards, etc with computers as far as adding things short of changing out the motherboard/processor) I think that it would help for the end users if anyone can recommend for those of us doing this what to get. I've read the threads on hardware vs software based issues on the processor, and also have considered the Geovision cards, but am wondering if I'm going for the stability (and avoiding the Via chips-which the AMD's tend to go with) and do prefer AMD. I know that as it's been posted that the budget cards are compatable with them, but wonder why none of the AMD computers have been used when you get more bang for the buck with AMD. Also, is the Dual Core processors and hyperthreading still the way to go? Whew....

Hi, Need some help to address some vandalism that has happened to my van which is parked across the street. Because of the mailbox in front of my house, I can't keep the car parked anywhere but where it is. Here is the web address for reference: http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum From my southwest corner of my house (most accessible for a camera) to where the car is about 70'. I have a flood light that comes on when you approach the house, but obviously that won't help "spotlighting" the Van(it's the blue one) across the way. I would prefer a b/w high res varifocal that is very discreet for two purposes-don't tip of whoever is destroying the car, and second to keep the house from looking like were drug dealers. For this reason I'm partial to a bullet- but have considered a dome. Problem is that they would be mounted under the garage eaves and the underside is stucco-not sure of how easy it would be to mount any of them. If there's advantages to the dome, then I'll consider them, but the less obtrusive the better. Also, the camera would be facing the Southwest, and afternoon light would be hitting it. I have a motorhome in the front driveway, and would like to keep the house covered so would be using another camera on the Southeast corner of the house as well. Those are the main cameras. Also, I'm planning on installing a camera under the eave just to the right of the door entrance (see picture). I could place possibly a dome if there's an advantage, but looking for suggestions as to what to get. The entrace kind of faces another home and I've included in the website address a drawing of the layout with measurements of the house and pertinent details. Also, I have the back/sideyards that I would like to cover but there not as critical at this point. My focus is on quality for equipment, and would need a minimum of four cameras, but possibly more. Budget wise I 'm open- I would prefer to stay within $1,000 for four cameras, but depending on what I would trade off, would consider more(like the southwest camera having a zoom feature). Re: the pictures- First picture is a drawing of the house, second picture is across the stree-motorhome in front and looking at the house, right side is the Southeast corner, left southwest corner. As you can see, if I try and mount the cameras from the second floor eaves I don't have coverage of what's happening in the driveway. The third picture is from the southwest corner facing the street with the van I'm trying to cover across from it (in blue). Fourth picture is from eave above house looking out from that office window above the garage. Fifth picture is from southeast side of house off the driveway facing street on the otherside of the motorhome. There's other shots of various shots from on top of the garage facing the entrance, and back/sideyards. Thanks in advance, Arnold

Hi - not seeing a response to my most recent post on the car vandalism I thought I would see your thoughts on what's happening. Through work, I met someone that does this for a living commercially and has stopped by and is willing to install a system. He's talked me into instead of bullets vandal proof domes and have seen recently feedback the Nuvicos and know some have used these cams there appears to be some feedback on them, but also, from Jasper's posts some partiality insinuated by someone that is pushing them it 'appears'. But Howard from Spytown says there good, and the design guy loves them, so while I know your fine with Wiz, thought I would see if you would approach the use of the Nuvico since after seeing how the dome would be so recessed under the eaves of my home that the stealth aspect I'm looking for might very well work, what your feedback is. Optimally this should be a true Day/Night, with a IR Cut, and be able to cover the area. What I"M thinking is that the two one mounted on the front of the garage one would be wider focus (the left side covering the general aread, and the right side tight shot for ID whoever would vandalise the van, and back on the backyard facing the street and mounted on the right side, a wider view facing the van but also the approach from the other side. Total is 5 cams- two front, one rear right side facing street, backyard (where the dog is and not recorded, but could be monitored) and the back rear left side facing the side yard to the front of the house . This way everything is covered on the house and recorded. Here are the parts so far: Nuvico Easy View Day Night Dome- CV- SD series, Dedicated Micros Stand alone ECO4, Channel Plus RF Modulator, Lockbox with four fans ,power supply, cable, switches for about $1910 parts and $350 labor. Your thoughts?

I guess this is as good a place to 'catch-up' as any. Well, got a call from the Ventura County Public Defender (guess why it appears our vandal who has had this warrant for his arrest since last year ended up in Jail and now the PD wants to see if I'll consider a "civil compromise" i.e. pay me off and I'll go away. Well, as any of you have guessed by now that isn't going to happen. Which brings me up to today- the Court Arraignment is next Wed. the 20'th and he'll find out that I'm not going for it and will probably trade in the freebee attorney once he finds out this is going to trial. So, in anticipation of this date, I'm now forced to move a little quicker now that I'll be appearing in court and seeing the same kind of garbage (vandalism- just a different operator I suspect) after pursuing a criminal conviction on this idiot. Which brings me back to here. A guy at work who does this for a living is working up a proposal, and were looking at a 4 camera DVR (or possibly a dedicated computer system like Tom's) but while he was checking out the area, he came up with this camera that they purchased a bunch of and because they got a 'great deal' on wanted to apply it to what I'm looking at- thus this post. Here is what he's thinking of installing: WV-NW474S by Panasonic. Not seeing this cam mentioned here and googling around see that it's a hybrid of which I'm not seeing the benefit for what I'm intending to use it for. Since this dome can be recessed into the area above the garage door, I believe this will be ok as far as discreet. So, I'm back- looking for feedback. In any case, I may be posting this too early since I still don't have a DVR set-up that he's going to go with, but seeing that the camera that he's thinking of is IP thought I would see what the plus's and less then that are for this application. I don't care what a great deal of a camera it is if it's not going to do the job- namely ID the next go round with these bozo's who've lost before and don't want to take for granted that they might of gotten some education with the local criminal justice system since these types aren't the sharpest heads in the gene pool (like the one that posted about my parking lot in front of my house- had to laugh and sorry that I couldn't respond, but that was too funny- maybe their related ;-0 ...in any case, thought I would run this by you guys for the continuing saga of vandals getting their comeuppance...also Rory, my wife is talking me into getting rid of our boat that is in the garage and parking that van in the garage (the blue one that is across the street) so the depth of field that we were discussing prior may not be an issue, and what I would probably want is something that cover the immediate area all around the house covered. Not sure how that would change things, but this 'project' is dynamic and because of this change thought I would 'mention' it. BTW, "sick of my neighbor" if you could, skip this thread for your input- and as alway thanks for al the input from those pro's out there that have been good enough to share your feeback. Surf1div1

Well, from my limited knowledge, it appears it's pretty easy to get decent shots from an indoor cam, but those fishbowl shots of day/night on that intellicam wouldn't cut it for me except for general monitoring, which is why I guess your using that, but you got a great shot with that 50 MM one to the point of being able to ID the car license plate. Boy, this thread has really taken on a life of it's own though....thanks for you input!

Hi Rory- Long time no posts...so let's catch up I'll post from within...

Hi Cooperman, and thanks for your suggestions...I'm in the middle of project (mounting a plasma above the fireplace and looking for the blocking/studs behind the drywall- UGG) but wanted to reference the page of the pictures of the house here: http://spaces.msn.com/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c02_owner=1&_c= On the page, just reference the photos under "Surf1div1" and under "Patches" , reference the other photo album- you'll see one called home exterior. There are a few shots- but the blue van is now where the Camper was- in other words by the fire hydrant. Arnold

Your right Cooperman-it is,but now that I moved it further east- i.e. more in line with the front of the house- it's probably now 65'- but at that distance, I doubt that it would change the lens enough since the point is to have enough 'scope' to id whoever is doing it (we know, but now we want to be able to confirm it and "catch them in the act" for posterity . Now, I would be consistent if I didn't leave with something here, so here goes- I've asked this before, but you've raised it with your last comment- as Rory as so gracisouly pointed out different setup's is there something that can be a covert with that range- am I assuming not? If no, then what do the pros do where someone like me want's it covert but then needs a big lens to zoom in without it? Is it possible to get a lens that is fixed but in a bullet with the kinds of lens you've referenced? As far as light- I'll have to change out the 100 watt bulb on the one front UNLESS there's a way to use the IR but with a photocell, and only with motion detection. Do you guys have a way to work the IR (yes Rory, I really don't want IR, but if it will be only come on with motion detection, then possibly it would work) but it just seems like something else to be dependent on that could break, etc. I think what I want they just don't make- namely a small footprint, without IR, a low enough lux rating to work and virtually invisible to all but those who know it's there. As an example- just got back from "Coldstone Creamery" and above the cash register was a 'lipstick' cam- so discrete you hardly notice it. Sure the FOV is only what 5' but I'm thinking with the technology that exists we could put it together. BTW- I like the latter- 16MM for the width. Thanks- Arnold

Hi Jasper- I'm going to answer within your response...

Hi Cache- man, would we love to catch these idiots...whenever I go to open the car, the alarm beeps three times letting me know that the alarm went off. Anyway, guess what- the guy that has been monopolizing that parking spot (the SUV parked in front of mine) wasn't there (after what- a year?) anyway, I pulled my van to within 10 feet of that fire hydrant. I plan on taking a picture if needed, but thought based on the previoius shot would I need IR based on the illumination that is currently available? Arnold

Hi Jasper- good question- that was my other car parked in front on a weekend. The problem as your probably aware is that here, in Simi Valley, if your car is parked for over 3 days they ticket you. So I would end up moving it every 3 days- a hassle. The mailman you know would report it to make his job easier. I thought about it and the compromise is parking it acrsso the street. Rory- what are we talking about cost why for the Ex-View setup on this one camera? Is there a good day/night- since this camera is also covering the west side of my property, I would prefer the color during the day and b/w during the night. The issue you raise Rory is that to get ID that would REQUIRE a zoomed in feature. That presents another issue- I would lose coverage of my property(west) unless I mounted a second cam facing more west to cover that area, unless I go for one of those COVI cam's that woull me to zoom in that one part(the van) and still have coverage for the other parts that a normal cam would cover. The problem with that one is the additional expense of using their proprietary computer (Covi's)- I think possibly a duo cam for the west of the prop is going to have to be used to get decent coverage. Sure, you could use a high zoom, ex-view, b/w but than I'm losing coverage of whoever comes on to the property from the vest. As that beatle once said, "It ain't Easy". ;-0

Hi Rory, and Jasper- actually it's the blue van you've zoomed in the prior shot- it's the one in navy inbetween the two cars. The first has some street lighting on it, and mine (in the middle) has almost none). It's a Ford Aerostar . Just behind it is the while truck your picking up (but only the front part of it. Distance from where the cam would be mounted to seeing "past " the car is about 70'.

Thanks Jasper for your feedback-I knew this was going to be a tough issue because of the distance from the house, and the inability to see both sides of the car. I was hoping that the ambient light would help with some of the better cams- from what your telling me it's going to be limited, but at leat I know my limitations. I was hoping that their is a cam though that would be able to ID someone if they did something. The last time they drove by and threw something through their window and hit the car- in that situation I'm not sure that a cam would of helped since the best I would of gotten was the car make. Possibly I should just right off the ability to even monitor the car, and focus on the house. The car, is only worth a couple of thousand dollars but has the utility which is why we keep it. As tough as it is to accpet, it may be that without a lot of resources in equipment for the one camera, it may behove me to just focus on the vehicles in the driveway(motorhome) and monitor the house up to the street level based on what your stating. I'm open- as I said, I don't mind investing in the right equipment for the one camera but it may be an issue if they do go behind the car to do their vandalism. Optimally the cams would be as discreet as possible. But, based on the mm needed to close in and ID them, it might also be VERY limited. I really appreciate the feedback everyone that has participated in this thread has given. You guys are to commended on helping out and supporting the end users like me. Arnold

))) Thanks Jasper- under photo's pick home exterior. That picture was my dog (recently deceased due to cancer). I'm pretty much going with the pc based for the DVR vs the standalone.

Thanks Jasper- I see what you mean- I wasn't aware of the that cam's rating. I was under the impression that this cam had the ability based on the specs. I'm a little confused though by your post as a result of possibly some misunderstanding on my part- I thought that o.05 was excellent and was described as being nearly pitch black. Thus the acceptance of this cam- I would rather have this kind of discussion though as I would hate to get the wrong product. The street lights on my block(the two closest) are far enough to only offer limited lighting (enought to barely cast a showdow of me on the street. I'm not telling anyone about the cams (as opposed to most that would probably state how this out there to discourage them from doing it in the firstflace) but know that the types of people that would vandalize someone are ones that would do as your situation shows- just do in a way to avoid being seen. Thus the search for a cam that will see them witha 70 FOV and small enough to be covert- currently it doesn't appear that there's anything made that does both without IR. As I stated in my recent post though- I would possibly just change the setting on my motion activated light to come on (at night since it's photocell activated like most) when movment is detected. The rub is that it would come on whenever a car comes by as opposed to someone coming by. BTW, as the intelligent software come out that is able to make the distinction of one from the other? I guess that is for another thread though. Arnold

Hi Jasper- What I would probably go with is the Setup that Thomas does for a PC based system (possibly Thomas would comment on that aspect as far as using different input's) but aside from that, I would prefer as I originally stated, a camera that will allow me to use it both day/night. You've brought up using a more sensitive lens to compensate for the nighttime vision. My goal is to have on the one camera that is monitoring the van across the street about a 70 FOV and ID whoever vandalizes it. Without IR . I could use (see pictures of the house) higher wattage light bulb in the motion detector light, and change the range of the motion detector to go on when somebody comes by it, but the problem is that this particular street that I'm on has quite a bit of traffic going through our neighborhood so that light would come on every t time a car comes by. That would be a compromise though to using IR all the time or some high-end cam that breaks the bank. Of all the cameras, this one would be the only expensive one needed (because of the fov) and the rest are just monitoring the immediate perimeter of the house (front FOV on the East side of the house to about 30') and the backyard has a motion detector light already and only needs about 20'. Entry to the house where I want to put the other has another motion detector light, which will cover the IR needs as well. So far, the Pano Day/Night is the only suggestion I've heard (with that Covi- from the same source who is no longer on this list but was pretty respected here) and wanted some additional product to ponder and research. I know that this is pretty academic on some ways, but once I narrow down the product I can go about procurement and installment. Thanks again to all of you-

What have I gotten into?....I have to laugh- I'm completely lost, but thought I would respond so that between the two of you I make sense if this. It appears that cost of the best day-night camera would still not yeild the best of two seperate cameras- one color, the other b/w. So, the solution appears to be to mount seperate cam's and this is where the two of you lost me- one voltage is 12 and the other is 24, and then's theirs the design issue of dissapating the heat without allowing "critters" in.) I have to tell you, while I'm lost, I can't help feeling intrigued by the idea of something good coming out of it where the sum of the individual elements get's much more then the individual pieces together- cheap components that would yeild better performance then a high-end day/night. Is this correct? Thus my question about the Pano cam. In any case, I would love to stay with a great bullet that is small (remember, I want the stealth factor) and great results without it becoming to costly. Now, while this has probably transitioned beyond the DIY aspect I thought I would tackel, I'm game , if you guys get somewhere with this design, and the application working I would love to see if in fact it works as planned. Arnold

OK Rory, I like #1,and 2 for day, , but at night, there's absolutely nothing seen in #2. (btw, sorry folks for taking so long to respond, but I've been relocated to a new office/managment, yada yada yada . So, how do I get around that? Would this camera offer me more for the application(front of the house you'll recall has a FOV of 60' out): Panasonic WV-CW474AS to possibly see as well as the shot's you have here (as in shot #1 which is a OEM bullet?) It's night time shot appears to 'my' eyes the best. Consider the source What I want is the night view of #4, but the discrete aspect of # 1. Do they make that product , yet )) Arnold

Hi Rory- Possibly you or Thomas can answer this Your post here caught my attention while doing a search on a specific feature I'm interested in: VideoIQ. While looking through the discussion on the merits of one vs the other, I'm a little confused- I'm sorry if this question appears ignorant, and I admit that I'm still learning about CCTV as your aware, but in viewing the GE site you've listed, I was trying to find this specific feature- intelligent software that would specifically reference human movement. This software claims about 95% accuracy (does anyone remember DragonSpeak )) But this system that is referenced is a PC VideoIQ system that connects to their DVR. You need both units to use this feature. While this is a stand-alone system, it uses a PC - it's I guess a marriage of sorts between the two - standalone and PC. This system also seems extremely costly to do what it appears a PC system could do if someone came up with the software that would do this- so Thomas, possibly you could shed some light on software that might do what this VideoIQ does? Thanks in advance... Surf1 WaveReader has all of these features. http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=WaveReader&lang=en_US http://www.geindustrial.com/ge-interlogix/kalatel/clearcast.html http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=VideoIQ&lang=en_US http://www.geindustrial.com/ge-interlogix/facilitycommander/index.html http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=DVMRe_Triple&lang=en_US http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=DVMRe_Matrix&lang=en_US

My question is if as Rory as pointed out with the DVR issue, does it really make sense to invest in this equipment given the limitations of equipment? I'm sorry that I can't say yes/no since you've raised this limitation, but since the manufacture doesn't even promote this for residential use (primarily it appears commercial- banking and education) what do those of you that install these in residential use see as an advantage to it? Also,possibly over time the price as dropped- in the dome configuration, I found this available for less then $600. Surf1 Actually, I have already seen them for around 700 end user price.

Thank's Rory- Do you think I should get the whole thing, or from and end users standpoint what do you suggest?

While reviewing this site, I've also come across a couple of the same options- Stam and the LSI- My preference would be something like a DVD course(or CD) as opposed to the online course so that I could review it for future reference- I believe from a newbies standpoint- like me that it would be more beneficial. Also, the Stam course is only a 60 day license if I'm not mistaken- what happens when you want to review it? Also, if anyone no longer wants there course and is willing to sell theres- even if it's a couple of years old, I would be interested even though I don't do this for a living, I'm interested enough to look into the formal education you would take to learn it. I've tried Ebay, and Amazon but to date haven't found anything used. Also, I've looked into evening courses from the local community college but don't see anything out here in California. Hey, I'm even willing to apprentice for any of you Cali guys on a weekend just so that I can what it's about. I figure hands on is great, but would appreciate the opprotunity to learn what it's about- PM me if your interested- I'm in Ventura County. I'm not looking for work, just an education ) AL

To make a long story short- the individual that was supposed to install a system flaked- on me and the company he was worked for the previous 5 years. So, I'm back to square 1- I've now addressed some issues though in this post to address previous questions. First my original post on the subject here for the historical: http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=17523&highlight=vandalism#17523 Budget- $3000 installed - Prefer Bulltets (there's enough light for a shadow to be slightly cast as I walk across the street from the streetlight) and I DON"T want IR illuminators if possible. Optimally I would love a varifocal Hi-Res B/W in a bullet. PC Based DVR that will be in the office (just above the garage in the photos) I've included pictures taken of the home with the motorhome in front here: http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum I'm partial to the discreet bullet's that Rory's mentioned, or 2'nd choice the domes (is Wiz Kid still preferred?) but need the part numbers you've referenced. Also, suggestions as to getting the parts online or through a contact on this list and then finding an installer out here in California (is $50-75 still the going price per camera?) Now, I'm in the process of considering any suggestions for what you would do under the previous comments or if there's been any advances in equipment, please suggest away. I'm also open to a PC DVR system. What I would like is a minimum of two cameras in the front (on both sides of the house) one off the entry and one for the backyard. Surf1div1

Hi Rory and Thomas, I haven't seen anything on your post since then, and was wondering what else you might of heard since this last post or if anyone else has any experience with these. I ask because I'm the process of looking at local installers in my area (Simi Valley, CA) and one of them suggested one of these for my vandalism issue (see my post). One of the things that was pointed out was the ability to use the zoom feature that is shown with three different shots below the general one. Almost , if I understand correctly like 'zoning' in the same way you would with motion detection, but in this case, the system allows you to show these zoomed in parts of the whole picture below the main picture. The way I understood this installer's presentation was that it was like having four different cameras in one housing. The Covi site references the application more for commercial use then residential but was wondering if this would be applicable to my application. In summary, has anyone had any experience with them (Axis , Covi, etc) and what have been the results with a residential use. Surf1