IR Illuminators....

[bob332 0]

any of you people that run a day/night camera for a security system that has ir leds around it for night illumination, have you notice and increase in the amount of insects? i need to build some illuminators but am hoping it wont be a insect magnet. will probably going w/ ~940nm or so but will be testing w/ both 850 & 940nm - don't want the red glow but want to make sure my cameras will pick up ok w/ the 940.

 

fwiw, they are low light (.1lux) b/w camers and the manf says there is no filter in them so they should be fine w/ 940nm, but i need to verify before i build them.

 

i think a few insects are drawn to infrared along w/ some snakes - can they differentiate between a real animals infrared vs a led array of say 40 or so?

[rory 0]

insects will attack anything thats a heat source. I have BW Cameras outside that are covered in spider webs, IR just gives off more heat. Spray them with bug spray every so often, just around it, not on the glass. Ofcourse I live in an area where you can get knocked down from clouds of insects in the summer time, thats how bad they are here, specially as im right on the ocean.

 

as to the camera, not all will pick up 930nm+

but you stand a very good chance by just using BW cameras.

BW, if you want low light BW cameras look for low resolution BW Exview, high res is not as sensitive and neither is standard BW. Low res standard BW is around 0.1 lux while low res exview is typically around 0.01 lux (not faceplate, faceplate would typically be around 0.0001+-). If you see a faceplate spec then times it by 200 to get the standard lux level.

[Soundy 1]

BW, if you want low light BW cameras look for low resolution BW Exview, high res is not as sensitive and neither is standard BW. Low res standard BW is around 0.1 lux while low res exview is typically around 0.01 lux (not faceplate, faceplate would typically be around 0.0001+-). If you see a faceplate spec then times it by 200 to get the standard lux level.

 

Just as a side note, this is why megapixel cameras aren't generally as good at low-light as analog, too... and the same reason pocket snapshot cameras have lousy low-light performance compared to digital SLRs and other large-sensor cameras.

 

Think of the sensor as a field of buckets, and the light photons as raindrops. The bigger the buckets, the more rain you'll collect in a given period of time (say, 1/60 of a second), and every raindrop gives you more data about the water you're collecting. If you want to increase the number of buckets (pixels) in a given size of field (sensor), you have to make the buckets smaller and smaller... so they can't collect as many raindrops (photons) and thus won't provide data as accurate as you get with the bigger buckets.

 

The only way to improve the ability to collect while maintaining the resolution is to increase the size of the field to allow for larger buckets... or in our case, using larger sensors. Beyond that, you either need to devise a better way to process the minimal data you ARE getting, or you need to come with a more efficient bucket.

[bob332 0]

thanks for the info guys, will be looking for some decent lower res b/w cams. i have a few that are lower light but they are box and won't fit on the window sill(?) that these are mounted on, guess i need to look for a 1/3" board camera then? would it be the 380TVL units? is there a low, medium and high or just low and high resolution, because i have seen some that are rated ~380-420TVL and others that are rated ~550-580TVL.

 

also i should note that these cameras are trying to see though a tint that is on the window, so i think i need to remove from the fov of the cameras and see what that does.

 

last thing, one of my cameras looks out into the parking structure, and the dumb ass hoa has a floodlight aimed directly at me, so at night....the camera is looking directly at a 100-300W floodlight. any filter to help w/ this? i know there are always issues when you have to point a camera and the certain times of the day when the sun hits it, just wasn't sure if there is a workaround being that the lightsource is out of my control.

 

thanks

[rory 0]

KT&C have a line of bullets and board cameras with Exview in 420TVL or 600TVL though id go the 420TVL to see more in low light.

 

here are some cams from KT&C with Exview:

KPC-S20PEX1, KPC-S20BEX, KPC-EX190SWX, KPC-EX35NV, KPC-EXTW670NHACI.

 

Seems the Exview box cams from Ganz and GE have been discontinued. KT&C also have them in Box cameras, no idea what those are like.

 

Alot of manufacturers stopped making them and went more into IR and other low light technologies, but still IMO Exview BW is one of the best, for the price.

[bob332 0]

i am finding a lot of them w/ super had also, how does that compare w/ exview? also, have you used the cameras? if so, how do they deal w/ heat? current cameras in the window sill(?) are in about 120-150F (direct sunlight) temps for a few hours a day for a couple months each year.

 

thanks,

bob

[jonb300 0]

how long does an IR illuminator last,? someone told me that it only last for a certain amount of hours or 2 years

[rory 0]

i have some in the field for around 10 years now. Some IR Hallogen Bulbs can only last a year or two, ive changed plenty of those, just the bulbs that is. IR LEDs can last 10 years, or more. The ones I have in the field for say 10 years, quite a few are burned out, but there are still enough left working on the Illuminator, to light up the location.

[Sawbones 0]

I would say LED or nothing... they're far more durable than the standard bulb type.

[zmxtech 0]

-mount your illuminators away from the cams insects wont matter that much.

-IR cut filter cams are the go

-LED IR illuminators for sure [you get what you pay for] 10year life with ease

-you will need to match the cam sensor to the IR -and do testing

 

-unless your worried about flying snakes? the LED IR illuminators put out a 10th of the heat that bulb style do

 

my 2c

[bob332 0]

i am finding a lot of them w/ super had also, how does that compare w/ exview? also, have you used the cameras? if so, how do they deal w/ heat? current cameras in the window sill(?) are in about 120-150F (direct sunlight) temps for a few hours a day for a couple months each year.

 

thanks,

bob

 

anybody have any comments on this question? superhad vs exview in terms of low light? also, i know i am asking a lot of the camera due to temps, the fact that parts of the day it will be looking directly into the sun, and very low light - am what i am asking for too much in a sub $80 camera - i say $80 due to the amount of heat these cameras will be subject to and i know that is going to take a toll.

 

i have tried to get samples, just 1, from manf, to test out, but since i am just a consumer, they won't send me anything. so doing testing on a lot of the cameras gets expensive since this is for home and it is not like i am making any $$ off the project. fwiw, after i find the correct camera, i can have the ennclosures made after i model them up - that part is no problem, just want to make 1 enclosure for the camera that does what i need it too because modeling up and having the enclosure made from Al is a time consuming process in and of itself. going Al because a lot of the thinner plastics just melt here in direct sunlight....

 

any other pointers from the pros?

[rory 0]

anybody have any comments on this question? superhad vs exview in terms of low light? also, i know i am asking a lot of the camera due to temps, the fact that parts of the day it will be looking directly into the sun, and very low light - am what i am asking for too much in a sub $80 camera - i say $80 due to the amount of heat these cameras will be subject to and i know that is going to take a toll.

 

i have tried to get samples, just 1, from manf, to test out, but since i am just a consumer, they won't send me anything. so doing testing on a lot of the cameras gets expensive since this is for home and it is not like i am making any $$ off the project. fwiw, after i find the correct camera, i can have the ennclosures made after i model them up - that part is no problem, just want to make 1 enclosure for the camera that does what i need it too because modeling up and having the enclosure made from Al is a time consuming process in and of itself. going Al because a lot of the thinner plastics just melt here in direct sunlight....

 

any other pointers from the pros?

 

Superhad does not compare to Exview, totally different, exview sees much more in low light, but will pixelise in near pitch dark, however it will see something, and only requires a very little bit of light to see clear.

 

KT&C bullet cameras for exview bullet cameras, BW bullets, and mini cube cameras. CNB for Day Night IR Bullets, Color and Day Night Domes.

 

They wont send us samples either ..

 

Sun is out almost every day here and havent had any problems yet. Sun can damage the iris/len though if looking at it direct for many years, only lost 1 camera lens from direct sunlight and it was 6 or so years later.

[bob332 0]

anybody have any comments on this question? superhad vs exview in terms of low light? also, i know i am asking a lot of the camera due to temps, the fact that parts of the day it will be looking directly into the sun, and very low light - am what i am asking for too much in a sub $80 camera - i say $80 due to the amount of heat these cameras will be subject to and i know that is going to take a toll.

 

i have tried to get samples, just 1, from manf, to test out, but since i am just a consumer, they won't send me anything. so doing testing on a lot of the cameras gets expensive since this is for home and it is not like i am making any $$ off the project. fwiw, after i find the correct camera, i can have the ennclosures made after i model them up - that part is no problem, just want to make 1 enclosure for the camera that does what i need it too because modeling up and having the enclosure made from Al is a time consuming process in and of itself. going Al because a lot of the thinner plastics just melt here in direct sunlight....

 

any other pointers from the pros?

 

Superhad does not compare to Exview, totally different, exview sees much more in low light, but will pixelise in near pitch dark, however it will see something, and only requires a very little bit of light to see clear.

 

KT&C bullet cameras for exview bullet cameras, BW bullets, and mini cube cameras. CNB for Day Night IR Bullets, Color and Day Night Domes.

 

They wont send us samples either ..

 

Sun is out almost every day here and havent had any problems yet. Sun can damage the iris/len though if looking at it direct for many years, only lost 1 camera lens from direct sunlight and it was 6 or so years later.

 

how do they deal w/ a very dark image, w/ one very bright light? i can't control this 1 light - some type of floodlight, probably 100W or more that is directed right at me so i get a lot of bloom w/ the current setups. i know there is only so much a camera can do, but do the newer ones offer better back lit objects better either through different microprocessor control or ???

 

i understand what the specs say, but would you say in real world uses, given the same area, would your observation be that the exview cameras are 20% better? 10%? or more like 50% difference? just trying to figure out cost/reward benefits

 

also, what temps do you guys get to?

 

thanks again

[rory 0]

Instead of repeating alot thats already been said here before, ill direct you to some older threads regarding exview. But simply put its like Superhad is just a standard camera, while Exview is low light. For example, I need BW Exview in night clubs as regular BW (or superhad) is not low light enough in some areas, and we dont want IR or any additional light. They have different lux levels.

 

The more expensive cameras like pro box cams will offer better backlighting, cheap bullets hardly ever will. You will want to try get that camera as far away from the light as possible, sometimes if you get it right in the center it will be okay, or even off to the edge a bit. All cameras are different so depends on the manufacturer, not the chip necessarily, though there are various Exview chips as well, and they range in price which then vary in quality and available features for the manufacturers.

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=106355&highlight=exview#106355

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=103871&highlight=exview#103871

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=79878&highlight=exview#79878

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11439&highlight=exview

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=75284&highlight=exview#75284

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=76747&highlight=exview#76747

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=67747&highlight=exview#67747

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=67710&highlight=exview#67710

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=66976&highlight=exview#66976

[thewireguys 3]

one of the best IR and LED illuminators

 

http://www.rayteccctv.com/default.aspx

[rory 0]

im an Extreme CCTV fan when it comes to IR

ps. dont mind the price thats retail in the bahamas a few years ago!

 

 

[bob332 0]

thanks, will be doing some reading

[bob332 0]

one of the best IR and LED illuminators

 

http://www.rayteccctv.com/default.aspx

 

thanks, will need to get in touch w/ them to see about pricing and if they will stand up to the additional heat, but the raymax 50 looks like something i could make work and the home owner assocation not see it

[thewireguys 3]

Keep in mind they recommend you pick a illuminator rating 3 times the distance of the objects you want to illuminate. So if you want to light up something 50m then you need a illuminator rated for 150m.

[bob332 0]

Keep in mind they recommend you pick a illuminator rating 3 times the distance of the objects you want to illuminate. So if you want to light up something 50m then you need a illuminator rated for 150m.

 

thanks, the max distance i need is ~30' from the front of my condo - that is the black hole area as i call it. the rest of the complex has ample lighting, but for some reason the lighting situation by my condo is bad - they either have a floodlight blinding me or nothing at all .

 

sadly the economy here is starting to hit our complex as quite a few of the condos around me are vacant - they are still owned but nobody is renting them so i might contact the owners and see about them putting in some motion sensor floodlights to help w/ the cameras too as currently no porch/front door lights. crime has still not raised, but i would rather have and not need then to need and not have. as i drive around the surrounding businesses, i am seeing a lot of vacant office spaces - we live in a very nice part of town and have the benefit of 3 different police/fire depts being a "border area" but these vacancies are just now hitting around here commercially so i am expecting a higher crime rate soon.

 

the sad part is is that i can't even contact the home owners association to put up better, larger box cameras i have to really help out the neighborhood. that is the frustrating part - i have some decent panasonic and diebold box cameras and a lot of different lenses that work very well w/ little light, but i have to hide the cameras from the hoa members.