magohn 0 Posted September 19, 2009 Hi guys, Still researching my system. Originally i was going to go with a PC based system with IP cameras. However, it seems the most trouble-less systems appear to be standalone CCTV DVR's - is this true? Can anyone suggest a system that has: DVR for 4-8 cameras Cameras Night/Day PTZ preferred Motion Detection on DVR (dont need 24/7 recording) Web Access (prefer firefox and IE) Newbie Questions : Can the power A/V be carried over one cable? Any info much apprecaited.... Thanks, John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted September 19, 2009 We do not know what the standards are? Is this for a residence, or a commercial business? How much are you willing to spend? What is your threat level? In other words do you have a million dollars cash under your mattress, or do you have a diamond store? We would treat a cheap "beer store" differently compared to a diamond store. The cheap "beer store" is not going to spend any money as there is no margin in beer, cigarettes, and, and lotto. Diamond store has a high threat level, and they need some key high end cameras, and then you can add in some cheapo cameras to help the budget for the non critical areas where you just need an over view. Only you can really make this decision. I prefer stand alone, as most of my customers are in the "entry level" category, and they do not want to spend a lot of money. If I were doing GE, Harris, Westinghouse, the state captitol then I may prefer the PC based system, as I might need to add analytical software, and I may need to add license plate software, and I may need to have electronic access, and I might need software that integrates all of these systems to make them one platform. This is where I would avoid the stand alone DVRs. PC based IP cameras is definately a way to go, and I would recommend this path. People would say it is expensive, but it would work out about the same with a great DVR, and some great cameras that match the video pound for pound. For a diamond store I would go mega pixal, (HDCCTV analog, or IP based). What do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magohn 0 Posted September 19, 2009 We do not know what the standards are? Is this for a residence, or a commercial business? How much are you willing to spend? ... What do you think? Hi Scorpion, The system is for use as general outside home security on a 3-acre remote farm (little night lighting). I would like at least 2 cameras to cover my truck etc and the side of the house. I am very able with PC hardware/software but also realize the beauty of a "standalone" system that does one thing and does it well. I have been looking at the Nuuo Mini (4 cams) and was just about to pull the trigger on the very cool system but realized the following: It has no iPhone access for remote viewing (IE only) I am limited to 4 cams It does not appear to have built in motion detection. So, is it possible to get around these shortcomings in the camera software? I know I would be limited to 4 cams - I can live with that if I have to. However, decent motion detection is a MUST - I do not want 24/7 recording and as we have a lot of wind/trees, the motion detection will be my main trigger. Presently I am using the iCatcher software with regular PC webcams - works well but has poor quality pics. I want to spend around 3k - for the whole setup (less if possible) Thanks for your time, Magohn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted September 19, 2009 If you are comfortable building a PC, you might want to look at Exacq software for IP cameras. It performs very well in the installs I've used it in so far, and has an extremely low processor load. Plus, you can add cameras on a per cam basis, no set limits like a DVR. It allows straight MJPEG browser viewing with no plugins, so it will work with just about any viewing method around (firefox, Opera, Etc.), and they have a client S/W for Win, Mac, and Linux. On the IP camera side is where you'll need to spend a little more for performance (look for a CCD imager, better in low light conditions in most cases.. Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba, etc.) An IP based install can allow much more flexibility in camera placement (wireless, etc) than a standard analog coax-based install, IMHO. As far as PTZ's, I'd just go with more cameras than install a PTZ. If you have it on a pattern, it will trigger the motion detection all the time, and if you do not, it is usually pointed the wrong direction at the time something happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 19, 2009 We do not know what the standards are? Is this for a residence, or a commercial business? How much are you willing to spend? ... What do you think? Hi Scorpion, The system is for use as general outside home security on a 3-acre remote farm (little night lighting). I would like at least 2 cameras to cover my truck etc and the side of the house. I am very able with PC hardware/software but also realize the beauty of a "standalone" system that does one thing and does it well. I have been looking at the Nuuo Mini (4 cams) and was just about to pull the trigger on the very cool system but realized the following: It has no iPhone access for remote viewing (IE only) I am limited to 4 cams It does not appear to have built in motion detection. So, is it possible to get around these shortcomings in the camera software? I know I would be limited to 4 cams - I can live with that if I have to. However, decent motion detection is a MUST - I do not want 24/7 recording and as we have a lot of wind/trees, the motion detection will be my main trigger. Presently I am using the iCatcher software with regular PC webcams - works well but has poor quality pics. I want to spend around 3k - for the whole setup (less if possible) Thanks for your time, Magohn The Mini doesn't need built in motion detection because it is done in the IP cameras. Exacq does this the same way and it is very good. If you want to use either Exacq or the Mini with analog cameras you can use a video encoder so you have plenty of options and room to grow into megapixel cameras. advantage with the MINI: Cheap Standalone headless system Raid no client software required Advantage Exacq expandable works with all browsers works with Iphone and BlackBerry phones works with Wiindows, Linux, Mac event logic very light on system requrements Both are great systems just depends on your requirements. Exacq software costs $150.00 per license Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magohn 0 Posted September 19, 2009 We do not know what the standards are? Is this for a residence, or a commercial business? How much are you willing to spend? ... What do you think? Hi Scorpion, The system is for use as general outside home security on a 3-acre remote farm (little night lighting). I would like at least 2 cameras to cover my truck etc and the side of the house. I am very able with PC hardware/software but also realize the beauty of a "standalone" system that does one thing and does it well. I have been looking at the Nuuo Mini (4 cams) and was just about to pull the trigger on the very cool system but realized the following: It has no iPhone access for remote viewing (IE only) I am limited to 4 cams It does not appear to have built in motion detection. So, is it possible to get around these shortcomings in the camera software? I know I would be limited to 4 cams - I can live with that if I have to. However, decent motion detection is a MUST - I do not want 24/7 recording and as we have a lot of wind/trees, the motion detection will be my main trigger. Presently I am using the iCatcher software with regular PC webcams - works well but has poor quality pics. I want to spend around 3k - for the whole setup (less if possible) Thanks for your time, Magohn The Mini doesn't need built in motion detection because it is done in the IP cameras. Exacq does this the same way and it is very good. If you want to use either Exacq or the Mini with analog cameras you can use a video encoder so you have plenty of options and room to grow into megapixel cameras. advantage with the MINI: Cheap Standalone headless system Raid no client software required Advantage Exacq expandable works with all browsers works with Iphone and BlackBerry phones works with Wiindows, Linux, Mac event logic very light on system requrements Both are great systems just depends on your requirements. Exacq software costs $150.00 per license.... /quote] Hmmmm - interesting. Do you know if the Exacq software is better than the software I am using right now, and why? iCatcher - http://www.icode.co.uk/icatcher/products/console.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) If you want features then go PC based, DVR or NVR. Features such as decent evidence sharing are lacking in most stand alone DVRs. Sometimes though there is no way to use a PC based due to location such as heat, thats where a small stand alone like the Avermedia or AvTech, really shine, they only have a small tiny board and nothing else that generates any kind of real heat (besides the hard drive). Edited September 19, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 19, 2009 The Mini doesn't need built in motion detection because it is done in the IP cameras. Exacq does this the same way and it is very good. If you want to use either Exacq or the Mini with analog cameras you can use a video encoder so you have plenty of options and room to grow into megapixel cameras. advantage with the MINI: Cheap Standalone headless system Raid no client software required Advantage Exacq expandable works with all browsers works with Iphone and BlackBerry phones works with Wiindows, Linux, Mac event logic very light on system requrements Both are great systems just depends on your requirements. Exacq software costs $150.00 per license.... PM me if you have any interest in Exacq. Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt the Mini still a PC, uses PC hardware? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 19, 2009 The Mini doesn't need built in motion detection because it is done in the IP cameras. Exacq does this the same way and it is very good. If you want to use either Exacq or the Mini with analog cameras you can use a video encoder so you have plenty of options and room to grow into megapixel cameras. advantage with the MINI: Cheap Standalone headless system Raid no client software required Advantage Exacq expandable works with all browsers works with Iphone and BlackBerry phones works with Wiindows, Linux, Mac event logic very light on system requrements Both are great systems just depends on your requirements. Exacq software costs $150.00 per license.... PM me if you have any interest in Exacq. Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt the Mini still a PC, uses PC hardware? It is a NAS box running Linux.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 19, 2009 It is a NAS box running Linux.... NAS box?? Whats inside it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 19, 2009 It is a NAS box running Linux.... NAS box?? Whats inside it? looks just like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822328002&cm_re=nas_storage-_-22-328-002-_-Product Nuuo Mini : http://www.nuuo.com/product.php?id=13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 19, 2009 looks just like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822328002&cm_re=nas_storage-_-22-328-002-_-Product Nuuo Mini : http://www.nuuo.com/product.php?id=13 True .. thanks. So basically its an embedded board inside, should be cool enough then. Though wonder about air flow. Have you used it yet? Id like to see it with XP next They dont say how fast the CPU is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted September 19, 2009 Hmmmm - interesting. Do you know if the Exacq software is better than the software I am using right now, and why? iCatcher - http://www.icode.co.uk/icatcher/products/console.html At first glance, Exacq seems to support more cams in MPEG4/ H.264 than Icatcher. They only have a hybrid if you buy their box, though. As far as other features, they have an evaluation 1 channel version available to test, why not try it for yourself. www.exacq.com ,talk to Thewireguys about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted September 19, 2009 It is a NAS box running Linux.... NAS box?? Whats inside it? Wonder if you could run Exacq on the Promise version or something like it, if you could reflash it with Ubuntu or similar? The CPU load of Exacq is really low, I've run it on a Via Epia 1.0GHZ board with two Arecont 5mp cams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 19, 2009 looks just like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822328002&cm_re=nas_storage-_-22-328-002-_-Product Nuuo Mini : http://www.nuuo.com/product.php?id=13 True .. thanks. So basically its an embedded board inside, should be cool enough then. Though wonder about air flow. Have you used it yet? Id like to see it with XP next They dont say how fast the CPU is. Yea I have installed them and I have one sitting on my desk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 20, 2009 Hmmmm - interesting. Do you know if the Exacq software is better than the software I am using right now, and why? iCatcher - http://www.icode.co.uk/icatcher/products/console.html At first glance, Exacq seems to support more cams in MPEG4/ H.264 than Icatcher. They only have a hybrid if you buy their box, though. As far as other features, they have an evaluation 1 channel version available to test, why not try it for yourself. www.exacq.com ,talk to Thewireguys about it. I have never used icatcher so I can't really compare the two. Exacq is a enterprise solution which can support thousands of cameras. They have a virtual matrix, audio recording, event based recording, event logic, Exacq replay, Event Monitor, Digital PTZ, Multi-Monitor Support, SmartSearch and the list goes on and on. My favorite feature is how you export video... video/audio gets exported as a .exe and it works on Windows, Linux, MAC. Also it looks and functions just like the client software. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 20, 2009 Wonder if you could run Exacq on the Promise version or something like it, if you could reflash it with Ubuntu or similar? The CPU load of Exacq is really low, I've run it on a Via Epia 1.0GHZ board with two Arecont 5mp cams. I know i can get XP down very low, not sure about how Exacq will run though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 20, 2009 Wonder if you could run Exacq on the Promise version or something like it, if you could reflash it with Ubuntu or similar? The CPU load of Exacq is really low, I've run it on a Via Epia 1.0GHZ board with two Arecont 5mp cams. I know i can get XP down very low, not sure about how Exacq will run though. Could you tell me how to do that and I will try it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 20, 2009 Could you tell me how to do that and I will try it sure .. start over here .. it has most of the info http://www.bahamassecurity.com/software/utilities/nlite.asp Note it is an Nlite config, but its not just another Nlite config. I tested it for months in Virtual Box and on actual PCs, before sticking to the final version as seen on that page. It was ALOT of testing, literally hundreds of test installs at least in Virtual Box over approx 3 months. It was geared towards EEE PCs at the time ofcourse. disable ALL hardware not to be used preferably in the BIOS, and dont install any of the drivers for them. Disable all services not to be used, using app in my link but also using the registry, go through all services, look for parallel, serial, etc drivers, get rid of or just disable. Things like that. Every little bit counts, it depends on the PC hardware, and check the boot log until its clean as poss. I had my Eee PC 630Mhz celleron XP booting up in 10 seconds, though ofcourse i had things like Webcam, Audio, Themes, LAN (used Wifi instead) etc disabled. Eg. you could get rid of the windows desktop alltogether and use another shell like bbLean, i did that for a geovision before, did a browser version also for a webcafe type of app, using a file that ran in the background and locked down everything else, and then a commands file for the right click menu in bbLean. I still have that code. in fact i did another one where the shell WAS the Geo DVR software, and it worked .. but didnt have time to test it properly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 20, 2009 Oh yeah forgot to mention it works well with Remote video also: http://www.bahamassecurity.com/eeepc/eeepcTweaked2.wmv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 20, 2009 Could you tell me how to do that and I will try it sure .. start over here .. it has most of the info http://www.bahamassecurity.com/software/utilities/nlite.asp Note it is an Nlite config, but its not just another Nlite config. I tested it for months in Virtual Box and on actual PCs, before sticking to the final version as seen on that page. It was ALOT of testing, literally hundreds of test installs at least in Virtual Box over approx 3 months. It was geared towards EEE PCs at the time ofcourse. disable ALL hardware not to be used preferably in the BIOS, and dont install any of the drivers for them. Disable all services not to be used, using app in my link but also using the registry, go through all services, look for parallel, serial, etc drivers, get rid of or just disable. Things like that. Every little bit counts, it depends on the PC hardware, and check the boot log until its clean as poss. I had my Eee PC 630Mhz celleron XP booting up in 10 seconds, though ofcourse i had things like Webcam, Audio, Themes, LAN (used Wifi instead) etc disabled. Eg. you could get rid of the windows desktop alltogether and use another shell like bbLean, i did that for a geovision before, did a browser version also for a webcafe type of app, using a file that ran in the background and locked down everything else, and then a commands file for the right click menu in bbLean. I still have that code. in fact i did another one where the shell WAS the Geo DVR software, and it worked .. but didnt have time to test it properly. Thanks Rory!!! This is a big help. NUUO is a nice unit but the problem is expandability it's just like any DVR. If you buy the 4 channel version and you want to add one more camera you have to swap out the unit or add another one and use the client software I would rather sell one NVR software solution, so my goal is to build a unit with 4 licenses included for the same price as the Mini with the ability to expanded to 6 or 8 cameras just buy adding more licenses . It shouldn't be that hard because the 4 channel Mini runs for around $1000 with 1TB of storage. So 4 Exacq License sell for $600 so that leaves me with $400 to build something. Exacq desktop and EL solutions use the intel atom processor and can support up to 64 cameras with maximom 2TB storage. (These are there small solutions) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 20, 2009 So 4 Exacq License sell for $600 ouch! they think they're name is Microsoft aye? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 20, 2009 Thanks Rory!!! This is a big help. NUUO is a nice unit but the problem is expandability it's just like any DVR. If you buy the 4 channel version and you want to add one more camera you have to swap out the unit or add another one and use the client software I would rather sell one NVR software solution, so my goal is to build a unit with 4 licenses included for the same price as the Mini with the ability to expanded to 6 or 8 cameras just buy adding more licenses . It shouldn't be that hard because the 4 channel Mini runs for around $1000 with 1TB of storage. So 4 Exacq License sell for $600 so that leaves me with $400 to build something. Exacq desktop and EL solutions use the intel atom processor and can support up to 64 cameras with maximom 2TB storage. (These are there small solutions) let me know how it works out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 20, 2009 So 4 Exacq License sell for $600 ouch! they think they're name is Microsoft aye? They are cheap compared to the big boys. Only camera licenses no server license or client license and a optional upgrade fee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 20, 2009 They are cheap compared to the big boys. Only camera licenses no server license or client license and a optional upgrade fee. Guess we have to take into account the cost of the cameras and servers they have to buy in order to test them with their software. And all the other development hardware as well. Wish i had that kind of funding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
