Newbie needs a bit of assistance please...

[Wizz 0]

Hello everyone, I'm new here evidently and was hoping to get a bit of assistance as there is only so much I can learn from searching. After having our home heavily 'scoped out' by thugs a couple times I'd like to install a camera system for our home/family to add an additional layer of protection (I work from home and our property is big and I have no view of our gate/property from downstairs). I will be doing the install as I used to do A/V installs and do everything myself to make sure it's done to my liking, I have all the tools needed etc.

 

I was interested in an 8 channel system so I can expand w/indoor cameras later on. I need outdoor cameras that will need to have good IR range and night time PQ, we live in Florida so good weatherproofing is a must. Our driveway is gated with a swing gate (there is an HID street light there as well which helps), so two long range (~100ft) IR cameras would be needed aimed at that location/region as it's the only road access point (we live at the end of a dead-end street). Cameras on the back and each side of the home can get away with ~50-60ft IR range. I also need a suggestion on a DVR...I do not need DVD burning ability. Our budget is ~$2k for hardware, I don't mind paying a bit more more if it means a noticeable step up in quality.

 

I'm also open to packaged systems if you can recommend a good one, I'm overwhelmed by all the packaged systems available online and I don't want to buy junk. So to simplify:

 

1) Long range (~100+ft) outdoor camera/brand suggestion?

2) Intermediate range (~60ft) outdoor camera/brand suggestion?

3) DVR/brand suggestion?

4) ~19" flat panel monitor brand suggestion?

 

Sorry about the newbie post, just want to make sure I get a descent brand/equipment. Much appreciated.

[Soundy 1]

Hey there... don't have a lot of time at the moment, but wanted to make a couple quick points:

 

One, I think your budget is a bit low - 100' is a LONG range for most IR cameras without getting into some higher-end stuff. You'd be better off, at least for that gate camera, to have something with good low-light performance... or add separate illumination nearer the gate (whether IR or visible)... or both. Personally, I'd suggest a couple motion-activated floodlights - the perps are more likely to simply be startled into moving on by that, and it's better to prevent action in the first place, rather than allow it to happen and hope you got a usable capture of it.

 

Second, one thing you should have picked up from searching already is that most cameras' claims of IR range tends to be pretty optimistic, and realistically the distance for a GOOD image is half of what they state.

 

Third, I really doubt you'll get what you need out of a package system. Package systems almost universally give you a bunch of identical wide-angle cameras designed to give a general overview of an area, but not much detail. With one camera here, you're wanting to capture facial details at a 100' range... that's going to mean a LONG lens (something in the 50-60mm range, at least), which is NOT something you'll find in any cheap IR cameras, or in most dome designs, for that matter.

 

Finally (for now), you're missing a crucial piece of the puzzle with your other cameras, and that's field of view. Range to target is only half the equation; the other half is how much area you want to cover at that range. It sounds like your other cameras need to be a wider, more general view to just capture activity in the yard, which can be done with a wider lens and a cheaper camera... but realize that most cameras with built-in IR, the IR itself paints a fairly tight pattern in the middle of the scene and won't cover a 70-90 degree field of view. Also, remember that there are two ways to increase illumination range: one, tighten the beam (which also reduces coverage area); or two, add more illumination sources... which means bigger cameras with more LEDs (or external illuminators... again, see comments on big bright motion-sensor floodlights).

[Wizz 0]

Thank you so much!...that info helped a ton. We have pretty good illumination around the house and there is an HID light on a telephone poll (light is ~15ft high) at the gate which should help, I figured the advertised figures were inflated which seems to be the norm w/most things.

 

I know that many prefer the Sony chip, but is there any 'brands' of camera to stay away from?

 

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

I'd say the main "brand" to stay away from is NO brand. If it has an actual brand name on it, a name that you can actually Google and find a company website, then you're in the upper 40% of the market right there. Most of the offshore JUNK you'll find will have big bold names like "CCD CAMERA" or "DIGITAL VIDEO" or other such generic terms, emblazoned across them, with no brand name, and probably no model name/number either.

 

It's pushing your budget at this point, but just for fun, take a look for some of the pictures posted by other users of the output of the Panasonic CP484/CW484 cameras at night. A CP484 (box-style camera) with a 60mm f/1.6 (or faster) lens would probably kick ass on your gate shot, even with just that one HID light. The only limitation there would be that the light, I expect, is above anyone prowling around and probably won't light up faces too well... hence, again, a floodlight or two. And again, there's the deterrence factor of having a bright light snap on to startle anyone lurking about.

[Wizz 0]

Thanks Soundy, I'll take a look at that camera...I could use it as the gate cam and the other 3 cams can be a bit less expensive models. I'm not so much worried about facial recognition as I am about having advanced notice that someone is about to do something they shouldn't, as long as I have the drop on them is my main goal.

[Soundy 1]

Unfortunately, unless you start getting into some form of video analytics, the system won't really be able to give you accurate warning of someone "about to do something they shouldn't". Most systems will detect if there's movement within a designated area, and can start recording and trigger an alarm based on that, but they won't generally be able to differentiate between a person, and animal, or just leaves blowing past... and they certainly won't be able to tell if a person standing there is bent on mischief, or just someone walking by.

 

What you might be looking at here, is something additional... perhaps a PIR (passive infrared) sensor on or near the gate, just like on your standard home alarm system... something with "Pet Immunity" that won't be triggered by a passing cat. Such a sensor can be wired into most DVRs to trigger an alarm and initiate recording.

[tomcctv 187]

Thanks Soundy, I'll take a look at that camera...I could use it as the gate cam and the other 3 cams can be a bit less expensive models. I'm not so much worried about facial recognition as I am about having advanced notice that someone is about to do something they shouldn't, as long as I have the drop on them is my main goal.

 

Hi wizz. you say you are not interested in getting faces. so you will go for cheaper cameras. the best thing on cctv is to get the best footage as pos. and try and get as many faces as pos. if somthing bad happends and you dont have good footage then your system has been a waste of money.

[Soundy 1]

Thanks Soundy, I'll take a look at that camera...I could use it as the gate cam and the other 3 cams can be a bit less expensive models. I'm not so much worried about facial recognition as I am about having advanced notice that someone is about to do something they shouldn't, as long as I have the drop on them is my main goal.

 

Hi wizz. you say you are not interested in getting faces. so you will go for cheaper cameras. the best thing on cctv is to get the best footage as pos. and try and get as many faces as pos. if somthing bad happends and you dont have good footage then your system has been a waste of money.

 

Yup, good point too, tom... I think I was heading in that direction and got distracted.

 

Anyway, yes... your desire may be to see activity and stop it before it starts, but chances are at some point, you'll end up needing to look back later at what happened, and identify someone from it, and in that case, you need the best quality possible. You're fortunate in that you HAVE a "choke point" in that gate - somewhere than anyone must pass through to access the yard, where you CAN get good detail from a tight shot.

[Wizz 0]

Thanks everyone, points all taken. We've upped our budget a bit to do things right the first time, we'll just start with a couple of cams now (Panny 484), and add a couple later. Our property is fully fenced and gated, so if anyone is on the property = up to no good. I work from home and the idea is to know what's going on outside while I work at the computer, and as you guys mentioned have review ability. I will add a PIR as well, cable burial for the PIR will be tricky as the house is surrounded by concrete all the way around the perimeter...but maybe they have a wireless solution. Cameras will be house mounted so no issues there w/cabling.

 

Here is what I've 'roughly' pieced together thus far:

 

Cameras- Panny 484 w/environmental enclosures.

DVR- Sanyo 2004 (it's expandable to 500gb), still considering a 6ch Sanyo as I'd like to add indoor cams later on.

Monitor- undecided between a crt or LCD.

 

Thanks for the info everyone.

[Soundy 1]

Go LCD - it will save you a ton in energy costs alone, and if you plan to leave it on much of the time, an LCD will also last a lot longer, as the CRT will suffer burn-in and slowly degrade over time. As noted in the other thread, super-high-quality isn't a concern with the monitor here, as it will still be better than the recorded video, and that's the place where you need image quality the most.

 

You have two needs here, that should be considered and addressed somewhat separately:

 

1. You want a live view of the gate and property to see if anything untoward is going on around the house, and particularly at your front gate, while you're working inside. For this, extreme quality is not necessary - your brain's "built-in video analytics" are smart enough to determine from even a rough overview if there's something of concern happening. The addition of a motion sensor at the gate can trigger an alarm to alert you to a presence at the gate. Ideally you're able to determine a risk and respond accordingly (call the cops, get the gun, etc.) to head off any incidents before they occur.

 

2. Reality and idealism rarely meet and the fact is, you CAN easily miss the precursor to an intrusion and someone could quite conceivably still get past your gate. To address this, you want to record activity around the property and especially at the gate, in the hopes of being able to later identify intruders to aid in their subsequent apprehension and prosecution. A tight, detailed shot of the gate addresses the apprehension portion, and surrounding overview cameras go toward prosecution.

 

For part 1, even cheap cameras and a cheap monitor will do. However, for part 2, you need a quality camera on the gate, and quality recording to submit to the police later. In neither case is a super-high-quality monitor necessary.

 

For the DVR, I'm not familiar with the model you listed, but I'll point out one other benefit of a PC-based system: software upgrades. For example, you CAN add an analytics package later if desired... or have a lot more flexibility in programming responses to various events. Other than minor firmware updates, most standalone systems offer little or no expansion to their functionality - if you find it insufficient at a later date, you need to replace the whole thing.

 

Just something to consider

[Wizz 0]

Gotcha Soundy. If it would be a PC based system it would have to run off of our current computer, it was one of the top-shelf units ~2 years ago: Hewlett Packard, Intel Core2 Quad @ 2.50GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Vista Home Premium 64 bit, Nividia GeForce 9800GT graphics card.

 

Problem is I wouldn't even know where to start for a PC based system after searching through some of these threads the last couple of nights. Is it as simple as buying a board, installing it, and setting up the software? Any suggestions on brands/sizes to consider?

 

You guys are a life saver!

 

Oh yea, if I do use our personal CPU as the recorder wouldn't we have to worry about the CPU (recorded info) being stolen? I was originally planning to put the DVR into our 900+Lb firearms safe...

[Soundy 1]

Gotcha Soundy. If it would be a PC based system it would have to run off of our current computer, it was one of the top-shelf units ~2 years ago: Hewlett Packard, Intel Core2 Quad @ 2.50GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Vista Home Premium 64 bit, Nividia GeForce 9800GT graphics card.

 

That would be far more than sufficient for the number of cameras you need... however, a DVR really should have its own dedicated machine, whether standalone or PC. A basic $300 PC is all that's needed - some of our older DVRs in the field right now are 1.8GHz P4 systems with 512MB RAM.

 

Problem is I wouldn't even know where to start for a PC based system after searching through some of these threads the last couple of nights. Is it as simple as buying a board, installing it, and setting up the software? Any suggestions on brands/sizes to consider?

 

Yes, it really is that simple. Some card/software bundles are a little pickier about the CPU or chipset used (ie. certain ones don't get along with AMD systems, etc.) but most are pretty solid with just about any hardware you put it on. 99% of systems I deal with are Vigils (www.3xlogic.com) - they sell card/software packages as well as complete systems, and the ones we build/rebuild have worked with any hardware we've thrown them at. ANother I've used in the past is Video Insight (www.video-insight.com), they use the same hardware as Vigil. GeoVision is popular around here as a lower-cost package; I don't like it personally, and we're actually in the process of replacing all the Geos with Vigils for one client, but others here are big boosters for it.

 

Oh yea, if I do use our personal CPU as the recorder wouldn't we have to worry about the CPU (recorded info) being stolen? I was originally planning to put the DVR into our 900+Lb firearms safe...

 

That's always a possibility, IF an intruder gets as far as where your system is installed... either way I don't know that I'd recommend putting it in a firearms safe. Any system like this needs ventilation to avoid overheating, whether PC or standalone. A better idea would be to hide it away in a closet or attic, and run a remote client software on your desktop PC.

[Wizz 0]

Thanks Soundy!

 

Now I just need to design some plans to figure out how I want everything setup/laid out and go from there. Thanks again for all the info everyone, I really do appreciate it.