Help with basic question on cabling and cameras

[tds1 0]

Our house has some prewiring for security cameras on the outside of the house that was done when the house was being built. At the time, it wasn't something I was focusing on so didn't pay too much attention to what the low level folks did (bad idea I know). Anyway, each location is wired with RG-59 and Cat-5e. I am trying to figure what type of cameras they were wiring for? Unfortunately the RG-59 is not Simease cabling so no 18/2 cabling. Most of the cameras I was looking at seem to use 12VDC. Is there a way to do this safely with Cat5e? Or is the only type of camera I can use are ones that support POE? It seems like the POE cameras are a lot more expensive. Am I better off having someone try to retro wire 18/2 cable or use the wiring already there? Sorry for the basic questions - thanks for the help! Forgot to mention that I plan on using the cameras to connect to a DVR system.

[bpzle 0]

OH NO!!! You lucked out buddy!!! Cat5e is all you need!!!! Use the rg59 for analog cams and double up 2 pairs for each leg of the camera power...

 

You have limitless options with what you have.

[Soundy 1]

Like bpzle says, you have lots of options here. You can use the Cat5e for power AND video using baluns... you can use the RG59 for video and the Cat5e for power... you can use the Cat5e for PoE-powered IP cameras...

 

No need to rewire (and probably not possible either, as the wire is probably stapled in various places, if it's done according to code).

[tds1 0]

OH NO!!! You lucked out buddy!!! Cat5e is all you need!!!! Use the rg59 for analog cams and double up 2 pairs for each leg of the camera power...

 

You have limitless options with what you have.

 

Thanks bpzle and soundy for the quick response! Some of the things I had read was that it was not safe to send 12V over Cat5e, but what you suggested makes sense as I will be in effect creating a larger guage wire. Am I correct that what you mean is to take 2 pair (4 individual wires) joined together to make each leg of the camera power? In other words, I would be using the entire Cat5e as the power cable (4 wires each to make the 2 power wires). The online calculator I found said that combining 4 24 guage wires will equal an 18 guage wire, so it looks like I will be good to go. Do I have it correct?

Edited April 18, 2010 by Guest

[bpzle 0]

exactly

[Soundy 1]

As long as the runs aren't too long, you can actually use a single pair for each "leg" of the power. If you were using baluns to run video over the Cat5e, that's what you'd be doing.

 

As for "not safe", keep in mind that Power-over-Ethernet spec allots 48VDC power over the brown and blue pairs. Where problems arise is that with long runs, low voltage, and too-small wire, you get voltage drops and current limiting that can cause the cameras to not get enough power.

[tomcctv 187]

Our house has some prewiring for security cameras on the outside of the house that was done when the house was being built. At the time, it wasn't something I was focusing on so didn't pay too much attention to what the low level folks did (bad idea I know). Anyway, each location is wired with RG-59 and Cat-5e. I am trying to figure what type of cameras they were wiring for? Unfortunately the RG-59 is not Simease cabling so no 18/2 cabling. Most of the cameras I was looking at seem to use 12VDC. Is there a way to do this safely with Cat5e? Or is the only type of camera I can use are ones that support POE? It seems like the POE cameras are a lot more expensive. Am I better off having someone try to retro wire 18/2 cable or use the wiring already there? Sorry for the basic questions - thanks for the help! Forgot to mention that I plan on using the cameras to connect to a DVR system.

 

 

like soundy and bpzle say you are in a good situation with how they wired your house. you are covered for any camera install . and if your cable runs are not to long. if you have not picked your cameras yet take a look at the CNB-utp range. you can install theses cameras as stated by soundy and bpzle. but if the runs are to long for coax you can still just conect these cameras with just your cat5.

[tds1 0]

Sounds great - thanks to everyone for the help. I don't think any of the runs should be too long. The majority are less than 35 feet and the longest is maybe 125 feet of so. Now it time to head to the camera section to start learning more about the different options for cameras.

[bpzle 0]

What will your cameras be viewing? What will be the lighting conditions?

[tds1 0]

The 2 cameras I care most about will be outside the front of the house. One will be a front door camera, used mostly for daytime use, but obviously still need night ability. The second will be at the front corner of the house aimed at the driveway and street. I want this camera to have as good night ability as possible. There is some ambient street light at night which will help a bit. I was going to rig our floodlights to be motion activated to help with night ability. Still, low light performance is probably my top priority. I am willing to spend up to about $500 per camera. So far I have been considering the CNB VBM-24VF, Panasonic 484 series, and Bosch 495 cameras.

Viewing distance for the door camera would be between 5 and 20 feet. Viewing distance for house corner would be between 20 and 60 feet.

[bpzle 0]

Wow! You've done your home work!

 

Those are all very good cameras... however, if it were my house I'd put in the cheapest (CNB), to have room in the budget for multiple views of the driveway. 1 analog camera only has so many pixels it can yield, no matter the cost (despite what a Bosch rep tells you ). So, a wide shot getting your driveway and the street is not putting very many pixels on your target area. While this may provide a good scene awareness for general coverage, it won't provide very detailed footage for police. Isn't that what a CCTV system should be for?

[tds1 0]

Interesting. Hadn't really thought about it that way. I do have room in the front of the house for a third camera. So would you have one camera for the door, one camera for the driveway (15-20 feet) and one aimed for the street (50-60)? Would the VBM-24VF work as the street camera or do I need one with a different lens on it? I know I saw a distance calculator around here somewhere.

[bpzle 0]

Dome cameras don't usually go outside of the range of 4mm-12mm... So a lens calculator wouldn't do you much good. I think that CNB goes up to 11mm if I'm not mistaken???

 

If you really had your heart set on a tight shot of the street then a box camera with lens and external housing would be required to be able to put a big enough lens on something. Kind of an eye sore of residential in my opinion...

 

I think you'd be fine with 2 CNB domes. Certainly much better coverage that just 1 camera on the driveway/ street.

[tomcctv 187]

This CNB will do the job. auto zoom on motion or by remote control. 30x zoom

[survtech 0]

Dome cameras don't usually go outside of the range of 4mm-12mm...

Ganz ZCOH5-DN84NHA Outdoor 1/3" Super Hi-Res Color True D/N Dome, 540 TVL, 8.5-40mm Auto Iris varifocal (http://computarganz.com/product_view.cfm?product_id=192)

 

You can get a Pelco DF5-PG-E0/E1 outdoor housing and stick a C10DN camera in it with a 5-50mm auto-iris lens.

[bpzle 0]

This CNB will do the job. auto zoom on motion or by remote control. 30x zoom

 

 

What kind of ammo does it use?

[bpzle 0]

Dome cameras don't usually go outside of the range of 4mm-12mm...

Ganz ZCOH5-DN84NHA Outdoor 1/3" Super Hi-Res Color True D/N Dome, 540 TVL, 8.5-40mm Auto Iris varifocal (http://computarganz.com/product_view.cfm?product_id=192)

 

You can get a Pelco DF5-PG-E0/E1 outdoor housing and stick a C10DN camera in it with a 5-50mm auto-iris lens.

 

 

I said USUALLY and I was talking stock, without lens change outs or making something from scratch. Of course there's a very select few of exceptions... But holy crap retail for all that is well over $500-600. Just so you can get a few feet closer than a 12mm lens? He doesn't need anywhere near a 50mm lens. That's ridiculous and impractical for residential. Especially on an analog camera...

 

I would never recommend something that expensive for such little benefit, unless I was doing a government or casino job. Where do you work again?

[Chrispy66 0]

Wow,

you guys scare me. You guys are the surveillance super gurus. I got a good scenerio for ya. I got a descision to make here and I need some educated guidance from my mentors here. Soundy and a few others here have helped me out with setup of my security cameras directect kit. Now I have same system and a friend of mine, who owned a business installing surveillance equipment moved out of state. Before leaving he gave me a few good cameras. One of them I want to add to my system and I need to know if it will be compadable or Not.

Its a American Dynamics Speed Dome Ultra VII EIS day/night part #RAS918LS 22X camera with mount. I know the camera is worth twice what the 9 camera system cost me that I want to add this to. I just need to know if I can controll it and view and record like the other cctv cams in my system.

My DVR is a SDC 9004g160 (AVTECH 776) 9 channel. It states in the setup menu it speaks RS232 an 484? anyways are these protocols compadible with my new camera?

If not what do you think I need to be able to view, record,and control it through my DVR.

I was told so many things already I am tossed. Should I just trade them in for a couple of good bullet cams and call it a day, or fiddle around with this bad boy and spend a bunch of cash which I dont have, and..... I dont know.

Guys, can you give me some insight? I really apreciate your help

 

Sincerely,

Chris

[bpzle 0]

What's a "security cameras directect kit"?

 

Also, 232 and 484/485 are not protocols. They're types of serial connections.

 

The protocol you are looking for is named "Sensormatic" or "American Dynamics". I hear a rumor "Pelco D" will also work, but haven't confirmed that.

 

Your cheapo AVTech should have Pelco D...but the other 2 I highly doubt it. Not really a market for people who slap a $2k PTZ on a $200 DVR.

 

You'll have to scroll through the PTZ setup menus on the DVR to see.

 

 

In my opinion, if you have them and they're free... PTZs can be a lot of fun just to play with and impress your friends. I say go for it and try to hook em up.

However, in a practical sense... PTZs don't come in real handy for most residential jobs.

[Soundy 1]

The protocol you are looking for is named "Sensormatic" or "American Dynamics". I hear a rumor "Pelco D" will also work, but haven't confirmed that.

 

Found a manual for the Ultra 8, and it states that camera supports Pelco P. so I would think this one would too.

[bpzle 0]

Atta boy scorpi... I mean soundy!

[survtech 0]

But holy crap retail for all that is well over $500-600. Just so you can get a few feet closer than a 12mm lens? He doesn't need anywhere near a 50mm lens. That's ridiculous and impractical for residential. Especially on an analog camera...

For the Ganz??? Funny, I'm seeing prices that are substantially lower; well under the $500 limit stated by the OP.

[bpzle 0]

Either way, that Ganz puts him over his original budget...

 

Remember he didn't want to spend more than $500 for a single camera and I recomended to use that same $500 to buy 2 cameras or more to better cover the area.

 

To further make the point: that large of a lens is really not required for something 60 feet away. Unless you were wanting to get fancey with an LPR setup, but that Ganz isn't designed for something like that anyway.

[hardwired 0]

If he wanted to use the Panasonic 484, you can fit a 15-50mm lens on it... http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=97267&surfModel=PLZ15/33

 

Having said that, the multiple camera setup might be better, if you are not dealing with large lighting extremes (which the Panasonic excels at).

 

Not a big fan of PTZ's, unless you are controlling it all the time (not likely), or calling presets with external sensors (fun approach, but you could probably still do multiple fixed cameras at less cost)... And PTZ's will not see around corners, which is usually the limit of useful viewing range, in a residential install.

[tds1 0]

Great advice everyone. Much appreciated. I like the idea of 3 cameras in the front. The CNB VBM-24VF seems so economical and well reviewed that this would seem like a good choice for 2 of the 3 cameras. I think I like the suggestion of a bigger lens for the 3rd camera, even if it is a more expensive proposition. Besides, the VBM-24VF is so reasonable that there is plenty left for that 3rd camera. That camera tomcctv suggested seems like a good idea. There is a CNB BE5810NCR that fits the description and is within the budget. Any one have any experience with this camera? It is listed is weatherproof. Would that survive under an eve during a Minnesota winter? Any real life experience with the night ability?

 

So the system so far would be 2 CNB VBM-24VF in front, 2 CNB VBM-24VF for the back and possibly one CNB BE5810NCR also for the front. Any suggestions on an appropriate multi camera power supply. Is something like the CANTEK PS-8DC 12VDC MULTI-POWER SUPPLY an adequate choice or are there better brands.