System recommendations for C-Store

[JoeC 0]

Hello, I'm a n00b here so please be gentle

 

My wife works for a small business that runs gas stations/convenience stores. I do their IT work for the most part, so at a few locations I've set up simple video security systems. In the past, I've just bought an out of the box system from Sams or Best Buy, etc. However, there is a location they have that is a little bigger and right off the interstate and they want to have a better system.

 

So, I've been looking at doing an analog system with at least 6 cameras to a DVR. I've thought about building a PC based DVR but the more I look at it, a pre-configured one is probably the way I'll go. We need 3 outdoor vandal/weatherproof cameras (night IR is not needed but might be handy for some instances). No need for PTZ as this won't be monitored all the time, but a little fixed zoom may be nice since the cameras will be on the building watching the pumps.

 

The indoor cameras we would like to have audio if available since they will be watching the cash registers and in the office.

 

I will be doing the install myself. I have experience running CAT5, etc but not coax/BNC.

 

We probably have a budget of around $2000 at this point since they just got taken for a ton of cash from a Manager and then a break in a day later. So, I'd like to get this put together while the feeling is fresh in their minds.

 

Any help would be appreciated!

[Birdman Adam 0]

So sounds like you have a fair bit of light everywhere?

 

My choices would be a Samsung DVR & CNB cameras. I'd use cat5 cable with baluns to run video. Cameras can be powered with a couple pairs as well from a main 8-ch PSU. If audio is needed I would run microphones to wherever they are needed and connect to the DVR & associate to certain video channels.

 

With this you should be able to come in right around $2k. Maybe a bit more.

[JoeC 0]

Yes, light shouldn't be a factor. They are open 24 hours now, but that is subject to change. So be prepared for low light probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Soundy 1]

Don't worry about the IR, it'll be fairly useless at any range unless you get into higher-end units. CNB Monalisa cameras will work great with very little light and should give you a great image under standard retail lighting. Here are a couple examples from one gas station we did recently:

 

 

[JoeC 0]

Ok, so I'm leaning towards the Samsung SRD-830 DVR and 6 VCM-24VF cameras. I have 1000' of CAT5 already, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

Can you guys point me into the right direction for the baluns and anything else that would be needed for installation? Any ideas for running mic's?

[tomcctv 187]

Ok, so I'm leaning towards the Samsung SRD-830 DVR and 6 VCM-24VF cameras. I have 1000' of CAT5 already, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

Can you guys point me into the right direction for the baluns and anything else that would be needed for installation? Any ideas for running mic's?

 

 

 

with a gas station you need good fps and D1. a gas station is a high risk area so you want to make shure you have good footage.

 

another good factor for a gas station is to hols at least 30 days footage.

 

the samsung is a good dvr but the fps is limited it does it best fps at cif.

[JoeC 0]

I'm not sure I could swing the extra cost of a higher end DVR to the owner...

[Soundy 1]

I recently used two of the 16-channel versions of this unit: http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/ev08p-vps.htm

 

I can't recommend this thing highly enough - baluns and power supply in one unit, makes life so simple (Also recommend Eastern CCTV!)

 

At the camera end, you can use this unit to split out power and video: http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/ev01p-vp-t.htm (you just need to snip off the barrel plug to tie into the CNB's connector). Then all you need are short BNC/coax jumpers from the EV8 to the DVR.

 

One thing to keep in mind with doing gas stations: if you want to put the cameras ON the pump canopy, you either need a canopy that's attached to or very close to the building, or you'll need to prepare to run trenching and conduit, and most jurisdictions have pretty strict regulations on how those things have to be run, too. Otherwise, you'll need to mount the pump cameras on the building.

[JoeC 0]

No cameras on the canopy, they will be all either on or in the building.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Yea, the SRD-830D can only do ~3.75 FPS when set for D1 on all 8 channels. This is probably unacceptable for a gas station, I'd bet you want at LEAST 5, preferably 10-15.

 

Maybe go for the SRD-850DC (next step up), it will give you ~7.5 FPS when set for D1 on all channels. It only cost ~100-200 more.

 

I would go ahead and get the SRD-870DC and set all channels to 15FPS@D1, it can do up to 30FPS per channel!

 

If all of the cameras will be inside, you can save some money and go with DBM-24VFs (indoor dome) instead of the vandal-dome version.

[JoeC 0]

3 cameras will be outside. 3 or 4 will be inside.

 

Also, does the DVR power the cameras or do I have to get an external power supply?

[tomcctv 187]

3 cameras will be outside. 3 or 4 will be inside.

 

Also, does the DVR power the cameras or do I have to get an external power supply?

 

 

 

hi each camera needs a power supply. can you google map a picture of the forecourt or do a little drawing.

 

you may have problems with the dome cameras if you are not using them in the pump areas. i.e canopy.

 

 

how far will the cameras be from the pumps. can you get a licence plate ?

[rory 0]

No cameras on the canopy, they will be all either on or in the building.

 

From buildings to pumps - if they are like the Gas Station I installed at 11mm wont cut it, so need something like this if wanting fixed domes:

 

3.69 ~ 44.3mm with Highlite Compensation

http://www.samsungcctvusa.com/files/upload/SCV-2120_CAT.pdf

 

3.69 ~ 44.3mm with Wide Dynamic Range

http://www.samsungcctvusa.com/files/upload/SCV-3120_CAT1004.pdf

 

If cant afford these, cheapest way would be some box cameras with a lens in the range of 16-25mm in a housing mounted upside down. If they are within reach though they can get knocked.

 

DVR

http://www.qvissecurity.com/Catalogue/DVR/Apollo-HD/16-Channel/Apollo-HD-16-Channel-Sata-DVR-2-TERRA-HDD-APOLLOS-HD16-2TB-N

[JoeC 0]

I don't believe license plates will be captured.

[JoeC 0]

Ok, here is a list of things I've come up with so far:

 

1 Samsung SRD-850DC DVR

3 VCM-24VF camera

3 DBM-24VF camera

6 mounting brackets

1 EV08P-VPS power supply

6 EV01P-VP-T baluns

Cat5 cable, ends, etc

Wall mount rack enclosure

 

 

Is there anything else you guys can point out that I would be missing?

[rory 0]

check the distance from the building to the pumps, otherwise 10.5mm may not work for what you want. If you are just looking for general overview shots then it would be fine. Eg. at the gas station here I installed a VBM-24VF and at 10.5mm it captured 2 pumps (3 of the 4 lanes). To get in closer on just 1 pump and 2 lanes I figured I needed at least 16mm. (but it was just a quick replacement camera and client was still happy)

[tomcctv 187]

I don't believe license plates will be captured.

 

 

Hi joeC. a petrol station will always have a big theft loss with it being drive offs or a fuel account customer with a disspute on there bill. and also like everywere else in the world they are easy for the armed robbery.

 

the first thing your customer is going to want WHEN it happends are details face/ good image / licence plates.

 

 

it does not cost more money its the planning of the system.

[rory 0]

 

it does not cost more money its the planning of the system.

8 lanes = 8 cameras for license plate capture.

Plus overview cameras.

 

Or overview of 4 lanes = 2 -3 cameras.

 

So yeah looks like it does cost more.

[JoeC 0]

Due to the orientation of the pumps and not mounting them to the canopy, license plates would not be able to be video taped. Possibly one of the cameras on the corner of the building will have a good angle, but I will have to check that when I'm back at the site. That one would probably need some extra zoom.

[Soundy 1]

Yea, the SRD-830D can only do ~3.75 FPS when set for D1 on all 8 channels. This is probably unacceptable for a gas station, I'd bet you want at LEAST 5, preferably 10-15.

I've installed for three different major Canadian oil companies... all of them spec CIF @ 1FPS as their "requirement". Even with IP cams, they only require 1FPS.

 

We usually go higher, often as drive space permits to maintain their other requirement of 30 days' retention... but never have I had a bigwig come to me and insist on higher framerates.

 

Higher is nice... but frankly, not usually necessary.

 

a petrol station will always have a big theft loss with it being drive offs

You can avoid that by going prepay-only (like all stations in BC are, by law).

 

3 cameras will be outside. 3 or 4 will be inside.

 

Also, does the DVR power the cameras or do I have to get an external power supply?

 

The EV08P-VPS provides power to the cameras over the Cat5. There's a diagram of the pinouts used on the EV01P-VP-T product page.

 

Basically, you terminate each end of the run with an RJ-45 (make sure you use the same wiring - T568A or T568B - at both ends!), plug one end into the VPS, and the other end into the VP-T, then connect the VP-T to the camera, and connect the corresponding BNC on the VPS to the proper channel on the DVR. No extra wiring required.

[JoeC 0]

Pulled the trigger today and ordered all the equipment. Hopefully I can get it configured and setup when it arrives.

 

Thank you guys so much for your help. I'll keep posting about the install.